[Discussion] Is Kuma stronger than Doflamingo?

[kageking]

Kuma is a monster, I've no doubt he could hold his own against DD. Paw paw fruit is op.

 

[Ridoku X]

I think Kuma might be at a disadvantage because of his powers being 'strapped' on his hands. Anyhow, I think Doflamingo and Kuma are more or less on the same level. Kuma is a little stronger at best, but until we see something really promising from him I can't say for sure.

Oh and it's a pity he's a mindless robot now. We could've seen so much more of him. So all in all it's

Kuma >= Doflamingo. Who knows, Doffy might even be able to win this as far as I am concerned v_v

 

[bajram]

There's a lot of people who are just as powerful and got caught off guard.

You have to remember that kuma can repel anything, even admirals if he to (but that won't do much).

We already seen Kuma out beat Zoro in speed when it came face to face, Zoro had to evade most of Kuma's attacks of reflexes.

He was dodging where his arm was being thrust, meaning before the air pad was sent at light speed.

Dragon was very concerned about Kuma, the government needed him unlike doflamingo that wasn't asked the to be given the title.

We haven't seen Kuma's turn yet, just like Mihawk we will only get a pre timeskip cameo before entering his main story at the very end.

Well yes there are a lot of people who get caught off guard, but in this case is pretty pathetic knowing that zoro just went an onslaught of Oz and got pretty beaten up by kuma again and zoro was barely breathing there, he wasnt even at 50% of his power, and considering how weak zoro was when he was pre-skip.

Not really, it was never stated that it can repel anyone, haki may do the work to protect ppl from the island repeling thing, it's common sense seeing how haki protect's people from OP df's.

Yet again, Zoro was too weak to fight in his normal state.

Dragon being concerned has nothing to do with this really, nor the WG wanting pirates to join the sichi, the warlords pretty much are a political power not a power one seeing how most of warlords werent even a factor during the MF war, and the title is given pretty much to anyone who has a big name on the pirate world and is strong to an extend, even pre-skip moria and crocodile were warlords and now Buggy.

Possibly, his role as a character that affects the main plot has ended, sadly.

of course he is stronger than Doffy, if current luffy can beat current Doffy then its reasonable to assume Future Kuma (who they probably will have to fight/destroy) will be miles ahead and will give the strawhats a though time (whom of course will be even more powered up)

Future Kuma doesnt really exist, its safe to assume that the brain kumas significance to the plot has ended, his role as a character was pretty much to secure the straw hats in two occasions, as Franky himself said kuma is the savior of the SH crew and if they ever meet him again its going to be just an heartless human weapon, that was pretty much his role as a char in OP, and if kuma ever shows no matter how strong his feats will be again its not going to count to the brain kuma since now he is just a powered marine weapon, even then i doubt hes having any significance to the plot anymore...

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well yes there are a lot of people who get caught off guard, but in this case is pretty pathetic knowing that zoro just went an onslaught of Oz and got pretty beaten up by kuma again and zoro was barely breathing there, he wasnt even at 50% of his power, and considering how weak zoro was when he was pre-skip.

Not really, it was never stated that it can repel anyone, haki may do the work to protect ppl from the island repeling thing, it's common sense seeing how haki protect's people from OP df's.

Yet again, Zoro was too weak to fight in his normal state.

Dragon being concerned has nothing to do with this really, nor the WG wanting pirates to join the sichi, the warlords pretty much are a political power not a power one seeing how most of warlords werent even a factor during the MF war, and the title is given pretty much to anyone who has a big name on the pirate world and is strong to an extend, even pre-skip moria and crocodile were warlords and now Buggy.

Possibly, his role as a character that affects the main plot has ended, sadly.





Future Kuma doesnt really exist, its safe to assume that the brain kumas significance to the plot has ended, his role as a character was pretty much to secure the straw hats in two occasions, as Franky himself said kuma is the savior of the SH crew and if they ever meet him again its going to be just an heartless human weapon, that was pretty much his role as a char in OP, and if kuma ever shows no matter how strong his feats will be again its not going to count to the brain kuma since now he is just a powered marine weapon, even then i doubt hes having any significance to the plot anymore...

Actually, that's not true. The only Devil Fruit that has been stated to be directly countered by Haki other than the bypassing protection thing is the Ope Ope no Mi. Doflamingo said Buso Haki protects against Law's cutting power. This insinuates things like Shambles, Injection Shot, Counter Shot or the telekinesis don't share this weakness, just the cutting power. It also shows that this is something specific to Law's DF. If it applied to every DF, or many other DFs, it wouldn't make sense for Doffy to specify Law's powers like that, as that implies it's unique to Law's powers.

 

[A v i]

Actually, that's not true. The only Devil Fruit that has been stated to be directly countered by Haki other than the by passing protection thing is the Ope Ope no Mi. Doflamingo said Buso Haki protects against Law's cutting power. This insinuates things like Shambles, Injection Shot, Counter Shot or the telekinesis don't share this weakness, just the cutting power. It also shows that this is something specific to Law's DF. If it applied to every DF, or many other DFs, it wouldn't make sense for Doffy to specify Law's powers like that, as that implies it's unique to Law's powers.

It can be applied to every other DF. Haki effectively combats any ability of DF's as stated by Rayleigh.{

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[Punk Hazard]

It can be applied to every other DF. Haki effectively combats any ability of DF's as stated by Rayleigh.{

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Not that we know of. He specifically said that other than exploiting individual weaknesses, it allows you to touch their near-fluid bodies. If Haki could combat every single DF, then why did Doflamingo say a specific power of just Law's fruit? Why doesn't that Haki-nullification also apply to Law's Shambles, Counter Shock, Injection Shot or telekinesis as well?

 

[Yonko]

does he even haki? all he does is repel and teleport. ursus shocku is pretty much useless. it's the coolest move but useless in a serious fight.

doff takes this.

 

[Anduril]

I think Kuma and DD are at the same level. The only one who is a level above them is Mihawk

 

[ultraChalk]

They're either the same level or Kuma is stronger. No way Mingo is beating Kuma.

I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar Kuma mid diffs him though.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

They're either the same level or Kuma is stronger. No way Mingo is beating Kuma.

I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar Kuma mid diffs him though.

Nice fanfic

 

[jiraiya lives]

I give this to Kuma....I really want him to regain consciousness and control over his mind somehow :/

 

[Bogard]

´Could go either way. Always got the feeling manga portrayed them to be on a similar level, strength-wise with maybe Doflamingo having the slight edge but not more than that

 

[Punk Hazard]

I think we're underestimating Kuma's mind. A computer's ability to calculate at such rates would be far superior to many minds. Kuma's mind right now has the potential to be much better than it was before.

 

[bajram]

Actually, that's not true. The only Devil Fruit that has been stated to be directly countered by Haki other than the bypassing protection thing is the Ope Ope no Mi. Doflamingo said Buso Haki protects against Law's cutting power. This insinuates things like Shambles, Injection Shot, Counter Shot or the telekinesis don't share this weakness, just the cutting power. It also shows that this is something specific to Law's DF. If it applied to every DF, or many other DFs, it wouldn't make sense for Doffy to specify Law's powers like that, as that implies it's unique to Law's powers.

Not really, haki us used to counter DF powers that's why dofla said that, and its not like he knew that the shambles, injection etc etc even exist at all, he knew that haki could block slashes thrown by a DF that until late in the story we didnt knew how someone could tank them even smoker said to tashigi that ur level of haki cant take the law slashes implying that someone with stronger haki could very well tank them, nothing is specific about law its just that law was in this case the DF user.

There is a reason parasite works only on fodders or ppl who are way weaker than dofla or on off guard people ( i.e Jozu) we dont have a single time where he caught into parasite someone who is around his level but instead he fights in other ways, the hax DF abilities should definitely be countered by haki otherwise the manga wouldnt make sense at all especially in the kuma case, I mean even fodder marines were able to get they're hands on WB, they could very well use kuma as trump card to fly WB away and leave the WB pirates without protection to slaughter them, or dragon could easily beat WG by just having kuma touch all the admirals before a war leaving mariejois unprotected or something, its pretty hax, i dont thing it works like hurr durr teleport GG.

 

[Peace Maker]

Do you think Kuma(not being controlled) is stronger than Doflamingo?
I personally think he is.

Look at it this way the first person that luffy fought is dodgy in the new world right? If someday luffy fought Kuma and kuma and he was weak wouldn't that be stupid af? And I bet Juan right now is much stronger since he was completely controlled by the e.g. and were talking about behaving here who was said that his genuineness is like 500 years from now im sure he will be able to control his haki and haki+cyborg means deadly

 

[Punk Hazard]

Not really, haki us used to counter DF powers that's why dofla said that, and its not like he knew that the shambles, injection etc etc even exist at all, he knew that haki could block slashes thrown by a DF that until late in the story we didnt knew how someone could tank them even smoker said to tashigi that ur level of haki cant take the law slashes implying that someone with stronger haki could very well tank them, nothing is specific about law its just that law was in this case the DF user.

There is a reason parasite works only on fodders or ppl who are way weaker than dofla or on off guard people ( i.e Jozu) we dont have a single time where he caught into parasite someone who is around his level but instead he fights in other ways, the hax DF abilities should definitely be countered by haki otherwise the manga wouldnt make sense at all especially in the kuma case, I mean even fodder marines were able to get they're hands on WB, they could very well use kuma as trump card to fly WB away and leave the WB pirates without protection to slaughter them, or dragon could easily beat WG by just having kuma touch all the admirals before a war leaving mariejois unprotected or something, its pretty hax, i dont thing it works like hurr durr teleport GG.

It was never said that Haki has the same neutralizing effect it does for Law's cutting power as does every other DF. Doffy said "Haki is makes your cutting power useless." If he meant all other DFs, he would have said so. And you really think Doffy doesn't know about Injection Shot, Shambles, etc.? Were you even paying attention to when Doffy was talking about the Ope Ope no Mi and during the flashback? Doflamingo clearly knows a lot about the Ope Ope no Mi. He even mentioned specifically the power to switch personalities. If you think Doffy only has knowledge on the cutting power, then I feel sorry for you, genuinely.

 

[bajram]

It was never said that Haki has the same neutralizing effect it does for Law's cutting power as does every other DF. Doffy said "Haki is makes your cutting power useless." If he meant all other DFs, he would have said so. And you really think Doffy doesn't know about Injection Shot, Shambles, etc.? Were you even paying attention to when Doffy was talking about the Ope Ope no Mi and during the flashback? Doflamingo clearly knows a lot about the Ope Ope no Mi. He even mentioned specifically the power to switch personalities. If you think Doffy only has knowledge on the cutting power, then I feel sorry for you, genuinely.

U didnt seem to get my point at all, why would dofla explain that haki can neutralize every df's power where only law was the one with the DF in this case, it doesnt make sense for doffy to explain how haki works on every move the ope ope no mi has, he knew that a strong enough haki can protect it from the cutting power the ope has, and why would law's df be special in this case, how does it sound for u acceptable for haki to work only in one DF power? Oda isnt doing something as sloppy as that, just stick to the manga and maybe u will be proven otherwise as the time passes and other op DF abilities come to fruiton, and there will definitely be some kind of counter to that, I said and i will say it again it doesnt just work like that, teleport gg, considering how fast kuma is then there is no one able to beat him , that would make for a pretty shitty writing.

 

[Punk Hazard]

U didnt seem to get my point at all, why would dofla explain that haki can neutralize every df's power where only law was the one with the DF in this case, it doesnt make sense for doffy to explain how haki works on every move the ope ope no mi has, he knew that a strong enough haki can protect it from the cutting power the ope has, and why would law's df be special in this case, how does it sound for u acceptable for haki to work only in one DF power? Oda isnt doing something as sloppy as that, just stick to the manga and maybe u will be proven otherwise as the time passes and other op DF abilities come to fruiton, and there will definitely be some kind of counter to that, I said and i will say it again it doesnt just work like that, teleport gg, considering how fast kuma is then there is no one able to beat him , that would make for a pretty shitty writing.

Then explain why Busoshoku Haki only neutralizes the cutting power, and not Shambles, Injection Shot, Counter Shot, etc.?

 

[bajram]

Then explain why Busoshoku Haki only neutralizes the cutting power, and not Shambles, Injection Shot, Counter Shot, etc.?

Just because we havent seen it yet it doesnt mean mean it cant but shambles isnt really an attack so idk how can haki neutralize something that isnt an attack at all, injection shot worked on doffy but doffy never hardened his gut to stop himself getting pierced and counter shot was pretty much tanked by vergo even though blood came out, I dont think haki works that way though, I think coating urself with a very strong haki, atleast stronger than the enemy using the DF can protect u from OP abilities such as dofla's parasite, law's cutting power, magellan's poison etc etc, haki shouldnt be used just to make an attack hit harder, there is a reason rayleigh said that busoshoku haki is like wearing an invincible armor.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Just because we havent seen it yet it doesnt mean mean it cant but shambles isnt really an attack so idk how can haki neutralize something that isnt an attack at all, injection shot worked on doffy but doffy never hardened his gut to stop himself getting pierced and counter shot was pretty much tanked by vergo even though blood came out, I dont think haki works that way though, I think coating urself with a very strong haki, atleast stronger than the enemy using the DF can protect u from OP abilities such as dofla's parasite, law's cutting power, magellan's poison etc etc, haki shouldnt be used just to make an attack hit harder, there is a reason rayleigh said that busoshoku haki is like wearing an invincible armor.

Who said anything about seeing it happen yet? The question was, why would it be stated that Haki only neutralizes the cutting power, leaving the others free to effect, if what you're saying is true.