Is itachi the most mentally twisted uchiha

Avani

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@Avani

- I heard someone make the argument that Itachi was foolish for not telling konoha about Tobi being the reason for the Kyubi attack on Konoha. He than said that Itachi could of united Konoha and the Uchiha against a common enemy.
- I heard someone else make a argument that Itachi's reasoning for destroying the clan, the potential for sparking a 4th Shinobi war, was unfounded. As Konoha during the Kyuubi attack at the beginning of the series, during the sand invasion and after Pain decimating Konoha, didn't spark a 4th shinobi war.

Do you have counter arguments for these arguments?
I also hear people make argument that the NASA and all the scientists world over and pilots and sailors lie about Earth being round and it's flat. Inane arguments made to obstinately justify personal disregard for actual facts are just like that.

- Itachi was barely 5 when Kyuubi attacked and there is nothing to indicate, Tobi detailed his role in Kyuubi attack to Itachi even when he found him some time before the massacre. Itachi could theorise but Uchiha were not exactly listening to him or inclined to suspect an Uchiha involvement to begin with. Or they would have been looking for one themselves. Unless. Tobi made an appearance to prove his existence, Itachi had little to convince people who didn't trust him.

Accepting Tobi's existence meant Uchiha first needed to listen to him and accept that one of their clan was involved; that the rest of the village was at least partially right in their speculation and accusations.

- Who are these people even?

# There is no way to predict what would have happened with 100% certainty but there is no reason to doubt that a full on civil war would bring higher causalities and would lave Konoha weaker and open to more threats, physical, political and economical . As it is we see both third and fifth hokage constantly trying to keep up the pretence of being stronger than they were and avoid refusing missions, despite being short on man power. e.g. They tried to kidnap Hinata and forced Konoha to sacrifice Neji's father. Sand did attack.

# Pain invasion did bring the fourth shinobi war right on it's heels. It's just that other villages were forced in to alliance since they were under attack too from a common enemy.

# Uchiha were still part of Konoha after Kyuubi attack. (they weren't taken out till 7 year later when they planned coup). Itachi's action in the event ensured the causalities were kept to minimum and the village survived and was almost ready by the time Sand attacked. With higher causalities previously and more inside conflicts, it would have been harder for Konoha.

# Right after that battle Leaf allied with Sand. Gara becoming kage cemented the ties more, since he ended up having friends in Konoha. So that lowered the threat of attacks for both - mutual benefits as they both helped each other. So why it would initiate war just then?

Still Akatsuki stated making moves for the bijjus around the same time so the next war was simmering. Rather, it was simmering for a long time- Konoha was being attacked by more than one parties. Minato bought some time for village when he forced Tobi to retreat but hold Kyubi in Konoha. Itachi was next in line to buy some more time that kept Konoha strong enough to raise Naruto's generation to join forces. Third and fifth kept it together with constant efforts.

# Itachi also kept a tab on Akatsuki and was a deterrent for Tobi till he was alive and that too give Konoha some breathing space for some time.

Anyway, to argue that a full on civil war would have no effect on village's prospects is naive. Anyone who argues that is leaving in a shell far away from such conflict zones.
 
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@Avani

- I heard someone make the argument that Itachi was foolish for not telling konoha about Tobi being the reason for the Kyubi attack on Konoha. He than said that Itachi could of united Konoha and the Uchiha against a common enemy.
- I heard someone else make a argument that Itachi's reasoning for destroying the clan, the potential for sparking a 4th Shinobi war, was unfounded. As Konoha during the Kyuubi attack at the beginning of the series, during the sand invasion and after Pain decimating Konoha, didn't spark a 4th shinobi war.

Do you have counter arguments for these arguments?
Maybe he didn't think about that, he entertained the possibility there was another way at the end with Sauce.
That's why he said he was a failure, but in the end it's the point that counts right?
His point was that he did what he thought he had too.
 

Avani

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@Avani their posters on "Naruto Forms". There's a thread about Itachi not being hero or a good guy on Naruto forums. I don't remember the exact posters names though.
That was rather a figure of speech than actual question, you know but I appreciate the reply. ^_^

The point still stands. Manga doesn't say it would start 4th shinobi war- just that Itachi was pretty aware what a war does. What Itachi stopped at that point was a broader civil war within Konoha, which would have not been pretty either way. Keeping the causalities to minimum, & the village mostly stable still was important. The arguments suggesting unless it's beginning of 4th shinobi war, it's not a war or a big deal are ignorant. Nagato/Pain was result of suffering of a war, just because his village got caught in middle of war of other bigger villages.

Even when brought back as edo- Itachi left Naruto and others to handle the fights but went straight to Kabuto because he immensely disliked the idea of people being forced to fight their own friends or relatives. He had been there, done that and knew how the t shirt looked like..... That was totally consistent with his own characterisation. Itqchi was not someone who enjoyed an explosive/violent lifestyle like Deidara for the sake of it ( despite him pretending that while in akatsuki) but he would do everything in his power if he thought it stopped greater violence.

Maybe he didn't think about that, he entertained the possibility there was another way at the end with Sauce.
That's why he said he was a failure, but in the end it's the point that counts right?
His point was that he did what he thought he had too.

Failure is a relative term & can be quite subjective as well. He failed Sasuke as in not being there for him, for not taking him in confidence or setting him up to fight himself one day etc. But it's more about his personal relationship with Sasuke. Everything else is just "what if's" in hindsight.
 

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Sasuke deliberately allowed Sasuke to witness the massacre and encouraged Sasuke to hate him simply because he wanted his younger brother to be as strong as possible, as quickly as possible. Itachi gifted Sasuke the sharingan on the same day as the massacre.

Itachi killing his parents had to be done because he knew that Danzo was going to check the aftermath.He definitely should’ve taken their eyes though.

Itachi definitely knew what Danzo had done to Shisui considering that Shisui told him what happened to his left eye before he killed himself. Itach was definitely an idiot for letting Danzo continue to exist, however if he’d killed Danzo, then he may not have been able to get Hiruzen to protect Sasuke. Although I guess he could’ve blamed it on Tobi

Itachi definitely did help the Akatsuki and there was no way possible for Itachi to undermine Tobi, despite his best efforts. Edo Itachi was even surprised when Sasuke had informed him that “Madara” told him about Itachi’s secret mission. Tobi knew everything and only decided to play along because Itachi was still a decent pawn.

Itachi is naive when compared to Obito and Madara. But considering how Itachi was later groomed by Obito, I do see his decisions being better thought out toward the end of his life. The only good decisions he made as a youngster would be 1.) Allying with Tobi, (2.) threatening Danzo.
 
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xCore

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Mentally twisted I don't think so. Everything he did was calculated risk and he was a village first kind of guy. The Uchiha have to undergo a lot of mental stress/trauma to reach their potential and that's what itachi did for sasuke.
 

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All Uchihas seem to do deranged things.

Itachi was the most mentally stable out of the four of them. He did things for the greater good. Madara also felt that way although I felt Madara was probably the worst Uchiha of them all.
 

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I don't know man, I like the character but it is what it is.

Maybe I'm biased but I see his character sort of like a criticism of authority, but at the same time recognizing the importance of it. But I think a lot of that is in my own head, on the surface he obviously isn't bulletproof in his portrayal as a "heroic" character, but you can just enjoy it for what it is, it doesn't have to be a puzzle. Or you can hate him cus of the things he seem to represent to you.
I like him as a fictional character, I don't see Naruto as a guide to how to live your life.
 
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I think, as a character he seemed to remain calm and sane despite the circumstances, you can say he did some crazy stuff but he was mostly acting crazy to his brother.
Obito snapped cus of Madara, so I think he is the most twisted one.
 

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No, he's just dumb.
:onion-msn-smileys-16: My guess he is a little too complex for you. :unsure: Or you are simply out of tune with the setting of the Narutoverse.

His parent sign their own death sentence.

Unclear statement

Eh again- what are you even trying to say

He is competent enough. No one is perfect.
Complex and Itachi shouldn't be put into the same sentence. Itachi's one of the few stupidest characters in the manga.

His parents did the right thing as Population Movement's a war-crime that almost always leads to genocide or pogrom. That demanded an open revolt, rather than a covert one.

Itachi's entire life, by his own statement, is a failure. Everything he tried, he failed at it miserably.
 

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No, he's just dumb.


Complex and Itachi shouldn't be put into the same sentence. Itachi's one of the few stupidest characters in the manga.

His parents did the right thing as Population Movement's a war-crime that almost always leads to genocide or pogrom. That demanded an open revolt, rather than a covert one.

Itachi's entire life, by his own statement, is a failure. Everything he tried, he failed at it miserably.
Personal opinion. + I don't give a shit about forced extra angst/drama in novels & Manga didn't mention any physical population movement as far as I remember. (If you wish to contradict, sure but please provide a specific panel not your personal interpretations).

"Population movement" being a "war crime " - again please provide the stated international law. It would be nice to see your source & the context. Also paedophilia is crime today. Should we judge people in past based on that now or they should be judged on the basis of the Time/Period they lived in?
 

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Personal opinion. + I don't give a shit about forced extra angst/drama in novels & Manga didn't mention any physical population movement as far as I remember. (If you wish to contradict, sure but please provide a specific panel not your personal interpretations).

"Population movement" being a "war crime " - again please provide the stated international law. It would be nice to see your source & the context. Also paedophilia is crime today. Should we judge people in past based on that now or they should be judged on the basis of the Time/Period they lived in?
Obito did, which was confirmed to be true by Orochimaru, Tobirama, and Hiruzen. Maybe next time you should read the manga carefully. The rest of it took me literally 20 seconds to get. I mean, being in a country where a slow genocide of an indigenous ethnic group's taking place, you should be familiar with these things, no?

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1. CLASSIFICATION: All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide.
The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend ethnic or racial divisions, that actively promote tolerance and understanding, and that promote classifications that transcend the divisions. The Roman Catholic Church could have played this role in Rwanda, had it not been riven by the same ethnic cleavages as Rwandan society. Promotion of a common language in countries like Tanzania has also promoted transcendent national identity. This search for common ground is vital to early prevention of genocide.

➔ 2. SYMBOLIZATION: We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people “Jews” or “Gypsies,” or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia.
To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden (swastikas in Germany) as can hate speech. Group marking like gang clothing or tribal scarring can be outlawed, as well. The problem is that legal limitations will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980’s, code words replaced them. If widely supported, however, denial of symbolization can be powerful, as it was in Bulgaria, where the government refused to supply enough yellow badges and at least eighty percent of Jews did not wear them, depriving the yellow star of its significance as a Nazi symbol for Jews.

➔ 3. DISCRIMINATION: A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups. The powerless group may not be accorded full civil rights, voting rights, or even citizenship. The dominant group is driven by an exclusionary ideology that would deprive less powerful groups of their rights. The ideology advocates monopolization or expansion of power by the dominant group. It legitimizes the victimization of weaker groups. Advocates of exclusionary ideologies are often charismatic, expressing resentments of their followers, attracting support from the masses. Examples include the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany, which stripped Jews of their German citizenship, and prohibited their employment by the government and by universities. Denial of citizenship to the Rohingya Muslim minority in Burma is a current example.
Prevention against discrimination means full political empowerment and citizenship rights for all groups in a society. Discrimination on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, race or religion should be outlawed. Individuals should have the right to sue the state, corporations, and other individuals if their rights are violated.



12. In most cases, population transfers are initiated by government policy. Generally speaking, the practice is based on grounds of ethnic composition of the people being moved or the people into whose territory settlers are being moved. Enforced population transfers, whether in the form of settlement or of removal, often is part of a wider policy directed at a specific racial, ethnic or religious group. They are usually politically motivated and often rooted in racism. There are two broad categories affected by enforced population transfers: the people being transferred (the settlers or removed people) and those into whose area the others are being moved (the original inhabitants; some or all of these may be removed against their will as well).

13. Population transfer within the meaning of this report therefore entails a deliberate policy decision of a military-strategic or political nature. In other words, there is always an underlying “reason” for governments engaging in population transfers. This means that not all large-scale movements of people constitute population transfer, which is distinct from refugee situations, as indicated above. Justifications such as 'voluntariness', 'national security' and 'temporariness' are often offered, but should be treated sceptically as they often merely conceal a government's wish to create demographic changes in order to consolidate, control and, in some instances, even to destroy in whole or in part a particular community.

And I haven't even touched upon Tobirama's rancid bigotry, hysteria promotion with no medical evil (Curse of Hatred isn't something even Tobirama believes in), and consciously going behind the precepts of the treaty to politically marginalize a clan, all of which are the starting stages of genocide throughout humanity's documented history. And if you don't give a shit about it, then why are you here in this thread, talking about "characterization" of all the things? Uchiha massacre's literally the heart of Naruto out of which almost all of the causality's created. Why did you even read it, then? Bizarre.

Also, pedophilia can't be equated with genocide. That's false equivalence right there. People had very poor life expectancies in the past. Most people never lived past 30, so they started early. That isn't the same as ethnically cleansing, mass-scale massacres, and targeted group discrimination and giving it a label that "oh, it happened in the past, so no biggie! Ya win some, ya lose some, fam!"

P.s: I forgot to add this: none of what I said is a personal opinion; Itachi literally, quite literally, failed at everything he ever did; and that isn't something I'm making up; that's literally canon. He didn't say "I'm a failure" for nothing.
 
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Avani

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Obito did, which was confirmed to be true by Orochimaru, Tobirama, and Hiruzen. Maybe next time you should read the manga carefully. The rest of it took me literally 20 seconds to get. I mean, being in a country where a slow genocide of an indigenous ethnic group's taking place, you should be familiar with these things, no?

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images



1. CLASSIFICATION: All cultures have categories to distinguish people into “us and them” by ethnicity, race, religion, or nationality: German and Jew, Hutu and Tutsi. Bipolar societies that lack mixed categories, such as Rwanda and Burundi, are the most likely to have genocide.
The main preventive measure at this early stage is to develop universalistic institutions that transcend ethnic or racial divisions, that actively promote tolerance and understanding, and that promote classifications that transcend the divisions. The Roman Catholic Church could have played this role in Rwanda, had it not been riven by the same ethnic cleavages as Rwandan society. Promotion of a common language in countries like Tanzania has also promoted transcendent national identity. This search for common ground is vital to early prevention of genocide.

➔ 2. SYMBOLIZATION: We give names or other symbols to the classifications. We name people “Jews” or “Gypsies,” or distinguish them by colors or dress; and apply the symbols to members of groups. Classification and symbolization are universally human and do not necessarily result in genocide unless they lead to dehumanization. When combined with hatred, symbols may be forced upon unwilling members of pariah groups: the yellow star for Jews under Nazi rule, the blue scarf for people from the Eastern Zone in Khmer Rouge Cambodia.
To combat symbolization, hate symbols can be legally forbidden (swastikas in Germany) as can hate speech. Group marking like gang clothing or tribal scarring can be outlawed, as well. The problem is that legal limitations will fail if unsupported by popular cultural enforcement. Though Hutu and Tutsi were forbidden words in Burundi until the 1980’s, code words replaced them. If widely supported, however, denial of symbolization can be powerful, as it was in Bulgaria, where the government refused to supply enough yellow badges and at least eighty percent of Jews did not wear them, depriving the yellow star of its significance as a Nazi symbol for Jews.

➔ 3. DISCRIMINATION: A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups. The powerless group may not be accorded full civil rights, voting rights, or even citizenship. The dominant group is driven by an exclusionary ideology that would deprive less powerful groups of their rights. The ideology advocates monopolization or expansion of power by the dominant group. It legitimizes the victimization of weaker groups. Advocates of exclusionary ideologies are often charismatic, expressing resentments of their followers, attracting support from the masses. Examples include the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany, which stripped Jews of their German citizenship, and prohibited their employment by the government and by universities. Denial of citizenship to the Rohingya Muslim minority in Burma is a current example.
Prevention against discrimination means full political empowerment and citizenship rights for all groups in a society. Discrimination on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, race or religion should be outlawed. Individuals should have the right to sue the state, corporations, and other individuals if their rights are violated.



12. In most cases, population transfers are initiated by government policy. Generally speaking, the practice is based on grounds of ethnic composition of the people being moved or the people into whose territory settlers are being moved. Enforced population transfers, whether in the form of settlement or of removal, often is part of a wider policy directed at a specific racial, ethnic or religious group. They are usually politically motivated and often rooted in racism. There are two broad categories affected by enforced population transfers: the people being transferred (the settlers or removed people) and those into whose area the others are being moved (the original inhabitants; some or all of these may be removed against their will as well).

13. Population transfer within the meaning of this report therefore entails a deliberate policy decision of a military-strategic or political nature. In other words, there is always an underlying “reason” for governments engaging in population transfers. This means that not all large-scale movements of people constitute population transfer, which is distinct from refugee situations, as indicated above. Justifications such as 'voluntariness', 'national security' and 'temporariness' are often offered, but should be treated sceptically as they often merely conceal a government's wish to create demographic changes in order to consolidate, control and, in some instances, even to destroy in whole or in part a particular community.

And I haven't even touched upon Tobirama's rancid bigotry, hysteria promotion with no medical evil (Curse of Hatred isn't something even Tobirama believes in), and consciously going behind the precepts of the treaty to politically marginalize a clan, all of which are the starting stages of genocide. And if you don't give a shit about it, then why are you here in this thread, talking about "characterization" of all the things? Uchiha massacre's literally the heart of Naruto out of which almost all of the causality's created. Why did you even read it, then? Bizarre.

Also, pedophilia can't be equated with genocide. That's false equivalence right there. People had very poor life expectancies in the past. Most people never lived past 30, so they started early. That isn't the same as ethnically cleansing, mass-scale massacres, and targeted group discrimination and giving it a label that "oh, it happened in the past, so no biggie! Ya win some, ya lose some, fam!"
Context is important. One clan moving to where it built the police head quarter within the same village in a feudal system in a universe where 12 year old are elite soldiers as leaders. Tobirama was vary of how their powers worked, and for a good reason- Teen Obito decided to start fourth Shinobi war because Rin died, shamelessly plotted, killed old wife of Hiruzen, killed Kushina who always cared for him, and let an angry Kyuubi lose on the whole village; killing off his entire clan little after "adulting" and continues plotting destruction almost his whole adult life, changing only near his death when people who he hurt the most choose to forgive him while his "friends" left him. It was Madara and Zetsu's conspiracy and Obito's instigation which lead to clan being taken out.

Obito who did his part by getting Kushina& Minato ( both loved him) killed, murdered wife of Hiruzen himself, conveniently forgot to detail his role in Uchiha destruction and so did you. So much for reading it carefully. He also failed to note that Kagami was in Tobirama's own elite escort team along with Hiruzen. Shisui & Itachi were Anbu. a He is lying by omission and exaggerated negative interpretations of the events( interesting that you follow his tactic) . He didn't mention Shisui was or Kagami being elite escort along with Hiruzen.

Genocide of indigenous group? Oh you mean forced exodus of certain Pundits( rather the third wave of attack on them ) from their own lands, since late 80s. But we are not here to discuss that anymore than the 1971 genocidal events or repercussions of one ethnic population being forced to move from their ethnic homeland to make way for certain Corridor or a couple of other provinces complaining of only one ethnicity controlling rest of your country. Appropriate avenue for every discussion is important too. Those real life political discussions are different debate and do not belong here. Keep it on topic.

Next point: every supposed human right violation is not a "war crime" so you used wrong term it in the previous post. Also, your link / your own source confesses:

"6. There is currently no single legal principle applicable to population transfers,.....
.......
........
7.4. Calls on the member states of the Council of Europe to promote, in international fora, the adoption of an international, legally binding instrument which consolidates the existing standards set out in different international law instruments and defines and outlaws all forms of enforced population transfers. "

Meaning it's a resolution to come up with some law by European Union and their own political goals. Meaning that long quote you posted doesn't back up your claim of it being declared war crime. I asked link for the legal validity of your claim, not of arguments that it should be so.

Next: I said I do not give shit about novels but care only for the facts presented in original manga i.e. written by the original writer. Your talent for wilful interpretation of words struck yet again when you put it as rejecting all characterisation.

And no I'm not equating paedophilia with genocide - I'm pointing out at your reluctance in applying one modern concept to that of older times but at the same time use another modern concept still being debated, to a manga story based on feudal period and values and getting overly emotional about it. Only someone like you will confuse it as them being equated with each other. It takes some real talent to make such erroneous interpretation this many times in a row. If we must compare, what Itachi did with real world then we should see what people in rest of the world were doing in those times and what would have happened to such a clan in other countries too.
 

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Context is important. One clan moving to where it built the police head quarter within the same village in a feudal system in a universe where 12 year old are elite soldiers as leaders. Tobirama was vary of how their powers worked, and for a good reason- Teen Obito decided to start fourth Shinobi war because Rin died, shamelessly plotted, killed old wife of Hiruzen, killed Kushina who always cared for him, and let an angry Kyuubi lose on the whole village; killing off his entire clan little after "adulting" and continues plotting destruction almost his whole adult life, changing only near his death when people who he hurt the most choose to forgive him while his "friends" left him. It was Madara and Zetsu's conspiracy and Obito's instigation which lead to clan being taken out.
None of what you said took place when the limitations were enforced. Furthermore, by law, no one has the right to politically limit a founding clan when the treaty's in place. You need to put aside your bias; as looking at this even objectively makes all of the decisions look absolutely abhorrent. Who gave Tobirama the political right to go behind the precepts of the treaty? I don't think you understand how "Treaty System" even works.

Kushina always cared for Obito? Huh? Which manga's that? Was it their instigation? No, it was Tobirama's, actually. The clan, as I stated, had every right to revolt against a fascist village. That and Danzo's single-handedly responsible for the creation of Akatsuki and many other acts of terrorism. So Konoha itself is responsible for almost all of the wars, funding militias, and conducting acts of terrorism.

Obito who did his part by getting Kushina& Minato ( both loved him) killed, murdered wife of Hiruzen himself, conveniently forgot to detail his role in Uchiha destruction and so did you. So much for reading it carefully. He also failed to note that Kagami was in Tobirama's own elite escort team along with Hiruzen. Shisui & Itachi were Anbu. a He is lying by omission and exaggerated negative interpretations of the events( interesting that you follow his tactic) . He didn't mention Shisui was or Kagami being elite escort along with Hiruzen.
Who loved him? Where's it said that Kushina and Minato loved Obito as if he was their own? Scan? Kagami being in Tobirama's squad means ... what, exactly (Tobirama himself talks of the 'either you're with us or you're against us' mentally)? How would Obito even know that? Are you trolling or something? Itachi being in Anbu was known to Sasuke even. Again what's your point? Itachi was literally inducted into Anbu to spy on the clan. It wasn't some gesture of good-will as you seem to be implying. Obito leaving one thing out doesn't mean he lied about the whole thing when this was agreed upon by Orochimaru, Hiruzen, and Minato, even. Looks like the mangaka's lying, the hokages are lying; in fact, everyone's lying but you!

Genocide of indigenous group? Oh you mean forced exodus of certain Pundits( rather the third wave of attack on them ) from their own lands, since late 80s. But we are not here to discuss that anymore than the 1971 genocidal events or repercussions of one ethnic population being forced to move from their ethnic homeland to make way for certain Corridor or a couple of other provinces complaining of only one ethnicity controlling rest of your country. Appropriate avenue for every discussion is important too. Those real life political discussions are different debate and do not belong here. Keep it on topic.

Next point: every supposed human right violation is not a "war crime" so you used wrong term it in the previous post. Also, your link / your own source confesses:

"6. There is currently no single legal principle applicable to population transfers,.....
.......
........
7.4. Calls on the member states of the Council of Europe to promote, in international fora, the adoption of an international, legally binding instrument which consolidates the existing standards set out in different international law instruments and defines and outlaws all forms of enforced population transfers. "

Meaning it's a resolution to come up with some law by European Union and their own political goals. Meaning that long quote you posted doesn't back up your claim of it being declared war crime. I asked link for the legal validity of your claim, not of arguments that it should be so.
Why aren't they on-topic? No offense, but the genocide of the Uchiha follows the exact same steps as it happens in the real life; and I'm well-aware of your hyper Nationalism and your complete denial of the atrocities committed by the Indian military that's backed by several international reports. Let's not!

Next: I said I do not give shit about novels but care only for the facts presented in original manga i.e. written by the original writer. Your talent for wilful interpretation of words struck yet again when you put it as rejecting all characterisation.

And no I'm not equating paedophilia with genocide - I'm pointing out at your reluctance in applying one modern concept to that of older times but at the same time use another modern concept still being debated, to a manga story based on feudal period and values and getting overly emotional about it. Only someone like you will confuse it as them being equated with each other. It takes some real talent to make such erroneous interpretation this many times in a row. If we must compare, what Itachi did with real world then we should see what people in rest of the world were doing in those times and what would have happened to such a clan in other countries too.
What novels? ALL of this is inside the manga. The novels are non-canon, anyway. Kindly, read carefully next time. Which characterization of Itachi has been rejected? Let's see:

1: Decides to do nothing with the information and murders the clan and plays right into Danzo's hands instead to talking to Hiruzen. Genius.
2: Tortures a 7-year-old small child for no reason at all. Genius!
3: Comes back to the village to threaten Danzo, but tortures a 13-year-old small child so brutally that he falls into a coma, so that he can leave the village and be hunted down by the said village for being a missing-nin. In fact, he outright tells him to murder his friend, a Jinchuriki, to gain MS, which would've gotten Sasuke (someone Itachi loves the most, apparently) executed. More genius.
4: Doesn't do anything about Orochimaru. Genius.
5: Doesn't kill Orochimaru. Genius.
6: Knows shit about Obito's ability despite not only working with him to massacre the clan but also as his underling for seven whole fucking years! Genius.
7: Fails his fail-safe plan because of the above. Genius.
8: Says in the end that a "7-year-old child" could've stopped the massacre. No, really! He literally says that in his final dialogue. More Genius. The dude's literally dripping with genius.

Are you ... trolling? Which part did Itachi NOT fail laughably? Name one. Just one!

What older times? Naruto's AU. Who's getting emotional? What interpretations? Care to post some? That'd be great. All of your reply's empty as ****. I asked you to give me instances of the so-called "complex characterization" that you've conceived in your head or from some fanon fan-fiction. How about you get to that topic, eh? That'd be great.
 
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Avani

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You always seem to get confused status of Uchihas with your personal politics. & I'm not even the only one who noticed it in last 5 years. However, it's not on topic when you start reaching out to push your personal political agenda. I can say a lot back and can back it up with multiple times more but neither of the arguments belong to Naruto forums. It's simple as that and you need to follow the forum rules.

As for the Naruto manga related arguments. I disagree. So it's an old boring argument when each of us know other's view through and through.
 
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