Is gaiden sasuke now more powerful than prime madara uchiha?

[The Demon Hawk]

Lol auto correct. I meant it's just how one utilizes that chakra like someone with monstrous chakra but don't know how to utilize it will lose to someone like kakashi who do know how.

Yes, you're right. But what I'm referring to is not the superiority in utilization but the capacity to outlast the opponent due to exceeding chakra reserves.

Yes, he did, he admitted that Naruto and Sasuke aren't just kids and that he needs to get his second Rinnegan. That was also before he got completely taken by surprise (again) by Sasuke's Ameno combo. Since he swapped with a Limbo clone - which got sealed - he was basically screwed, since he had no way of dealing or reacting to Sasuke, let alone handling him and Naruto at the same time. He couldn't have done much either way, and is definitely below Sasuke:

1. No second eye means no PS
2. 6 Paths get countered by Sasuke's
3. Shinjuu gets cut by Sasuke's PS if he attempts firing Juubidamas (assuming Sasuke even lets him try it)
4. TSB get easily countered like in canon
5. A single Limbo clone is pretty much a non-factor.

In a sentence - Sasuke beats 1R JJ Madara, this really isn't debatable.

Bro, you really need to go back and read the post completely. Even if you read one sentence ahead of that "snip" part, you wouldn't have written all this, let alone the entire post. Yeah, and I agree with everything you said except @bold His Six Paths without the other eye are lame as hell, they don't get countered by Sasuke, they get stomped by him.

 

[Draw]

If Sasuke had two arms I'd say he could compete w third eye Madara but he'd lose in the end. Present Sasuke can solo juubi Jin 1R Madara though

 

[Ambivalence]

Bro, you really need to go back and read the post completely. Even if you read one sentence ahead of that "snip" part, you wouldn't have written all this, let alone the entire post. Yeah, and I agree with everything you said except @bold His Six Paths without the other eye are lame as hell, they don't get countered by Sasuke, they get stomped by him.

But I did read your post. You only said that you think Madara's chakra capacity and immortality somehow make him equal to Sasuke, which I honestly found ridiculous and stated reasons why those are a complete non-factor. That ''immortality'' is extremely speculative, by the way, especially since Madara already admitted to almost dying from getting half his torso blown off, and we've never seen how a JJ deals with head/brain damage or decapitation. Then there's also the fact that Sasuke can just dump him in Kaguya's dimension and leave, which is an automatic win. Point is, Madara's chakra being higher and having ''immortality'' don't count for jack when he can't fight on par with Sasuke.

Also, I do seem to have missed another thing you're wrong about. Rinnegan Sasuke = DR JJ Madara in feats? Unless you're talking about Adult Sasuke specifically, then this is incorrect, as VoTE 2 Sasuke is above Madara by feats, which are just CT satellites (got sliced up by non-BPS Sasuke), 4 Limbo clones that were being stalemated by Naruto's clones with just taijutsu, and IT, which is useless against Sasuke. On the other hand, you have Sasuke who: used Outer Path and molded chakra on the level of Hagoromo, made BPS which can be used with Amenotejikara, has access to one of the strongest attacks in the manga and nothing short of Juubidamas are getting past its durability.

 

[Omar19992010]

Then why did JJ Madara run from Sasuke in chapter 674?

Because Sakura was bout to destroy his Rinnegan and if you're gonna ask how did he know, Rinnegan shared vision and Madara and Black Zetsu can communicate telepathically.

3 Eyed Madara beats VOTE II Sasuke who's stronger than Adult Sasuke. Sasuke beats any other version of Madara other than the one stated above.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

But I did read your post. You only said that you think Madara's chakra capacity and immortality somehow make him equal to Sasuke, which I honestly found ridiculous and stated reasons why those are a complete non-factor. That ''immortality'' is extremely speculative, by the way, especially since Madara already admitted to almost dying from getting half his torso blown off, and we've never seen how a JJ deals with head/brain damage or decapitation. Then there's also the fact that Sasuke can just dump him in Kaguya's dimension and leave, which is an automatic win. Point is, Madara's chakra being higher and having ''immortality'' don't count for jack when he can't fight on par with Sasuke.

Also, I do seem to have missed another thing you're wrong about. Rinnegan Sasuke = DR JJ Madara in feats? Unless you're talking about Adult Sasuke specifically, then this is incorrect, as VoTE 2 Sasuke is above Madara by feats, which are just CT satellites (got sliced up by non-BPS Sasuke), 4 Limbo clones that were being stalemated by Naruto's clones with just taijutsu, and IT, which is useless against Sasuke. On the other hand, you have Sasuke who: used Outer Path and molded chakra on the level of Hagoromo, made BPS which can be used with Amenotejikara, has access to one of the strongest attacks in the manga and nothing short of Juubidamas are getting past its durability.

Before anything, I'll just tell you that I'm actually a Sasuke fan (if you didn't know), so I'm absolutely not being biased with anything.

I said that Madara's close to infinite chakra reserves and his immortality neutralize his significant disadvantages against Sasuke. That could hold him equal to Rinnegan Sasuke in a battle since Sasuke's superior attacks would go void for the most part. It doesn't necessarily mean that Rinnegan Sasuke is parallel to JJ Madara w/ one Rinnegan.

Going by feats, Madara is going to get completely owned by Sasuke. But factor in large chakra reserves to go with his jutsus to keep up with Sasuke to some extent and his immortality to endure Sasuke's attacks to some extent, it makes up for his drawbacks. I know that immortality is speculative, and immortality alone is not a decisive component. But Madara w/ one Rinnegan isn't a complete fodder or a little kid who just has immortality. He still has his offenses and defenses even if they're not comparable or as powerful as Sasuke's, but they're not completely useless as well. He's got watered down eye powers but still got the body powers of a JJ i.e. robust strength, extreme speed, durability, regeneration, jutsus powered by senjutsu. All that do account for something if not exactly rivaling Sasuke's powers. He can evade Sasuke's attacks and prepare some counters. It's not like he's absolutely helpless and lame. You're underestimating him too much. He cannot fight on par with Sasuke, but he can definitely hold up against Sasuke, if you know what I mean. That makes him equivalent to Sasuke in some sense.

Firstly, you're only crediting Madara for the feats he displayed, which is unfair. He could obviously do SIGNIFICANTLY more than what he did. And "by feats" refers to what he is capable of (his physical capabilities, chakra, jutsus and everything up his sleeves), not just what he displayed, or those powers which can't be countered. Also, you say "JJ Madara w/ double Rinnegan = Sasuke" is wrong if referring to Adult Sasuke specifically. The thing is it's actually correct when referring to Adult Sasuke specifically. Otherwise, it would be wrong, because JJ Madara w/ dual Rinnegan is superior to War Arc Sasuke by feats.

He can do nearly everything that War Arc Sasuke can do and more. He trails Sasuke in eye power department since his Rinnegan is still nowhere near as versatile as Sasuke's. But the Six Paths techniques are just as powerful which account for most of the Rinnegan's power. He can still use Susanoo so that also parallels Sasuke's Susanoo i.e. his major MS/EMS power. Limbo is unique and if it can use Susanoo, it's very useful. So his respective EMS and Rinnegan powers are inferior to Sasuke, but not incomparable. Lacking in eye powers, he more than makes up for it in body powers. He has the Six Paths Senjutsu which rivals Naruto's similar modes in all departments, strength, speed, durability, stamina etc all greater than Sasuke (I've mixed opinions about speed though). TSBs, Juubidamas. Plus, he has Mokuton which he never used and on it's own it is very OP.

This is an impressive and dominant number of feats and puts Madara safely ABOVE both Naruto and Sasuke by feats (individual feats of course), unless you say that all the additional feats that Madara possesses (@italicized) are completely negligible compared to Sasuke's slightly superior powers which, by the way, Madara already has. JJ Madara w/ double Rinnegans is clearly superior to War Arc Sasuke no matter how you see it. Sasuke was no match for Madara alone if Madara used his full powers. But despite that I call it an equal match up just because of Adult Sasuke's impressive development and progression. Gaiden Sasuke has improved powers i.e. he can use Amenotejikara on equal terms with Amenominaka which is a massive improvement which puts him equal to Madara by feats, in which he was otherwise inferior. And yes, Sasuke can counter Madara's attacks, but so can Madara counter every Sasuke's attack. That doesn't necessarily make him superior by feats.

 

[Ambivalence]

I said that Madara's close to infinite chakra reserves and his immortality neutralize his significant disadvantages against Sasuke. That could hold him equal to Rinnegan Sasuke in a battle since Sasuke's superior attacks would go void for the most part. Going by feats, Madara is going to get completely owned by Sasuke. But factor in large chakra reserves to go with his jutsus to keep up with Sasuke to some extent and his immortality to endure Sasuke's attacks to some extent, it makes up for his drawbacks.

Why would they go void? You just keep saying that his superior chakra reserves and immortality somehow make a difference, can you give me an example? How would they even begin to make a difference when Sasuke can counter anything in his arsenal and Madara's already proven to be unable to keep up with him? More chakra in the attacks with just one Rinnegan doesn't amount to much as they can't do anything to Sasuke anyway, immortality is seriously something I don't consider, seeing as how it's up to interpretation.

I know that immortality is speculative, and immortality alone is not a decisive component. But Madara w/ one Rinnegan isn't a complete fodder or a little kid who just has immortality. He still has his offenses and defenses even if they're not comparable or as powerful as Sasuke's, but they're not completely useless as well. He's got watered down eye powers but still got the body powers of a JJ i.e. robust strength, extreme speed, durability, regeneration, jutsus powered by senjutsu. All that do account for something if not exactly rivaling Sasuke's powers. He can evade Sasuke's attacks and prepare some counters. It's not like he's absolutely helpless and lame. You're underestimating him too much.

No offense (really), but this is literally just another generic argument listing some make-belief reasons without any concrete evidence or examples backing it up. It's like me saying that Sasuke is strong, fast, smart, versatile, but that still won't mean he doesn't get low-diffed by Kaguya. Yeah, 1R JJ Madara is strong, nobody's denying that fact - still, the fact remains that Sasuke with his 3 minute Rinnegan was forcing him to retreat and power-up. They are most definitely not on the same level, feat or hype-wise.

He cannot fight on par with Sasuke, but he can definitely hold up against Sasuke, if you know what I mean. That makes him equivalent to Sasuke in some sense.

The first sentence is true, the second sentence is very wrong. It doesn't make him equivalent to someone superior if he can just put up a fight before going down. I don't see Adult Sasuke taking this with more than mid difficulty, unless you want to tell me how exactly can Madara use his superior chakra and immortality to even it up.

Firstly, you're only crediting Madara for the feats he displayed, which is unfair. He could obviously do SIGNIFICANTLY more than what he did. And "by feats" refers to what he is capable of (his physical capabilities, chakra, jutsus and everything up his sleeves), not just what he displayed, or those powers which can't be countered.

Lol, that's not true. I'm accounting Madara's hypothetical powers as well. It's in my second post, where I explain how every significant offense move of his gets countered, and you even agree on all my points. What exactly does he have that Sasuke can't counter?

Also, you say "JJ Madara w/ double Rinnegan = Sasuke" is wrong if referring to Adult Sasuke specifically.

You might want to read that part of my post again, since you interpreted exactly the opposite of what I wrote. ''Unless'' =/= ''if''.

Otherwise, it would be wrong, because JJ Madara w/ dual Rinnegan is superior to War Arc Sasuke by feats.

Nope. VoTE Sasuke is at least equal to him in feats, he's above him in reality. With assumed powers, DR JJ Madara is either equal or above him.

He can do nearly everything that War Arc Sasuke can do and more.

You were talking about feats, now you're saying how he can do what Sasuke can. Even though he hasn't displayed it. Even though that's what a feat is.

He can still use Susanoo so that also parallels Sasuke's Susanoo i.e. his major MS/EMS power.

BPS is at least a tier above Madara's speculative PS. Don't even know why I'm stating this, it should be common sense.

He has the Six Paths Senjutsu which rivals Naruto's similar modes in all departments, strength, speed, durability, stamina etc all greater than Sasuke (I've mixed opinions about speed though). TSBs, Juubidamas. Plus, he has Mokuton which he never used and on it's own it is very OP.

Madara's TTCS (Ten-Tails Coffin Seal) is not on the same level as Naruto's RSM, not even close. It's like saying Madara's Rinnegan = Sasuke's. Naruto and Sasuke received their powers directly from Hagoromo, and are each superior to their counterpart that Madara uses. The only reason why DR JJ Madara can keep up and is probably superior to Naruto/Sasuke is because he embodies both of the weaker versions of the Body (RSM) and the Eyes (Rinnegan) at the same time. He'll get stomped if he fights Naruto with just his RSM, or if he fights Sasuke with just his Rinnegans. Already countered the TSB and Juubidama part. Mokuten gets shredded or lit up with Amaterasu, and is barely a factor anyway, since Sasuke can fly.

This is an impressive and dominant number of feats and puts Madara safely ABOVE both Naruto and Sasuke by feats (individual feats of course), unless you say that all the additional feats that Madara possesses (@italicized) are completely negligible compared to Sasuke's slightly superior powers which, by the way, Madara already has.

I don't even know which Madara you're talking about anymore, but it doesn't matter - no version of Madara is above VoTE 2 Naruto and Sasuke by feats, unless you somehow think CT satellites, 4 Limbo clones and IT are above what Naruto and Sasuke showed in their battle.

JJ Madara w/ double Rinnegans is clearly superior to War Arc Sasuke no matter how you see it.

He's superior by hype and speculative powers, not by feats.

Sasuke was no match for Madara alone if Madara used his full powers.

Lol, ''was'' and ''if'' don't go well in a sentence. Sasuke would only be bested (arguably) by Madara using his full power if we're talking about DR JJ Madara. Any lower version doesn't stand a chance, and I'm not debating this any further, unless - again - you tell me specifically how he can win.

And yes, Sasuke can counter Madara's attacks, but so can Madara counter every Sasuke's attack. That doesn't necessarily make him superior by feats.

I didn't see Madara countering Amenotejikara. I don't see Madara countering being turned into a CT core. I don't see Madara countering getting dumped in a different dimension. Again, I'm only debating for 1R JJ Madara.

 

[Rikudou Sennin balls]

Ssauke is stronger than Madara with just his rinnegan. Sasuke isn't as powerful as 10 tails Madara but he could hold his own.