Ain't it funny how *mama's only son be baking cakes* when Itachi flees Jiraiya and that is justified as a measure of power difference multiple times folks will stick by half-of-barely-a counter of information to say Itachi wasn't overpowered, yet when Pein doesn't complete his I-woke-up-for-this mission against Naruto folks will ignore the infinitudes of reasons why to not give Pein the recognition of power level?
So let's give Pein just a tenth of the benefits that faves like Itachi get: just the least bit of strategy and common sense
Before I go on, let's establish some parameters
Firstly, the horizon of BFR: where would you put it, if at all?
See, I would think that if anyone, nevermind a trained killer, found themselves in some mysterious realm that can perfectly recreate specific locations, give them specific rules and tell them to fight to the death, then the least bit of survival insitncts within them would say to go all out, would have V2 Ei suddenly going V3 off the bat if he must because the slightest opening given to the opponent leads to his death, and against someone whom he doesn't even know how they ended up fighting. But to be fair, there is a particular mission with the BD and specific threads, so wierd concepts like BFR and prep time have to be introduced to facilitate these missions. Now common sense says that canon events are used to guide these concepts. So let's look at battlefield restrictions in the manganime. You had Gaara and Deidara, very first fight in part 2, going up to 10km in the air. You had Pein creating a structure whose outer edge probably reached 5km. You had Mutandara calling meteors from the heavens. You had Kisame on his bad hair day creating a structure the size of Konoha! But I won't ask for anything near those guys, ITT. How about 3,5km all round?
Now I'm good with that alone but since it's also an exploration thread I wanna address Prep Time as well.
Now I've seen folks claim summons shouldn't count for Sannin since those require a summoning contract and all that which technically is prep. Now I wanna be the one doing the ridiculing, but I kinda get where they come from. So it is in understanding the bros that I must remark that being a rule Stifler in that way goes against the root idea for the a matchups arena: testing powers, generally. Firstly, the very introduction of such parameters is a concession from the everyone that matches require some reality warping in order to happen. So calling on the rules thusly goes against the spirit of that concession. Also, see, in attempting such thing being too laxedaizecal leads to a grasping-the-wind scenario where there's nothing to work with, yet being too precise leads to a suffocating scenario where its impossible to work irrespective of what there may or may not be to work with. So in this case I ask for common sense, in terms of what is seen as fair to permiss. If you wanna be technical, just conaider how much I love my specifics . . . (Animal Path is not the character nor their body, but rather the range of abilities afforded by their 'element'. So Animal can't normally summon the other SPoP bodies because that is the hack made by Nagato using SPoP. Animal Path simply affords the summons).
So we can say that range limit is 3,5km all round and no prep is given beyond the norm?
Good, to it.
Now this works mainly for 1-v-1 fights. Animal being part of a squad usually would allow for it to be taken further, but it's easier to work with basic fights since its easier to measure the limits of the strategy. I'm currently putting that limit at Founders level, since that's where I think there won't be any thought-blitzing, if Nagato limited himself to only using Animal Path or if only that PoP were to be used.
What Animal does here is jump in the air and summon the Chameleon-Chymera around herself (she'll be in its mouth) with it already invisible. This means she's literally out of sight within 1 second of the fight. Given standard distance of 15m, see why I put the level limit at Founders? She may start by going underground and using the centipede or some such diversionary route but it ultimately leads to the Chameleon-Chymera.
Soon, she's completely out of reach, say 2km in the air. Sensing gives vague directionsand even the most specific ones still require reactions. Animal will not stand still and watch herself get chased.
What she'll do is summon all the others at 3,5km in the air, except Cerberus who'll occupy the opponent on the ground, even by splitting up. From this point on she watches them drop, accelerating to what I'd wager is 150kmph. See where I'm going?
Now you might think that anyone with a worthwhile defense can survive a simply booty drop, but what about six?
Also keep in mind:
- SS arms each created a shockwave/explosion as wide as PS is tall with their punches. Now they were punching at casual speed and being malleable wood each fist wouldn't have wieghed more than a giant summon. I figure weight and speed parameters would even out.
- The Summons have different qualities. The Panda can harden its body, I figure to steel quality. The Rhinoceros is a blob of muscle with thick skin. Most importantly, the Bird has a sharp, hardened beak. This helps with piercing the air but also with hitting small targets. Piercing damage works by concentrating all the force onto a small point. Now imagine if the force behind a PS sized crater was concentrated onto the tip of a beak?
Now I'd orginally thought of this for the Bird. Here's why: Rods of G-d (google/duckduckgo/yandex it)
See, with the Bird various tactics open up.
Animal can counter FTG blindsides by summoning the Bird, while its falling, right in place to skewer the FTG user who is right behind him. The sharp nature of the beak means that Animal herself can deflect dodge similar to what Sasuke did with Killer Bee
Seriously, lets have some fun here:
See, it doesn't end with the Summons dropping in on a pre-designated spot. That would be weak to anyone who can see them coming from 3,5km away! No, Animal can summon and re-summon them to change their positions while maintaining their speed. So if their speed is not enough to completely pulverise, Animal summons them back onto the edge of the battlefield to continue their falls. As long as the opponent cannot stop this resummoning, she can have them accelerate as fast as flesh can go without turning to crisps. How fast is that, think you? I'm thinking G8 speeds. No beyond that because Gai burning up is due to internal heat, not external. Anyway, the point is that they're dropping in whenever Animal wishes at speeds far surpassing sounds and tracking ability of most.
Its also possible to go beyond the speed of incineration since the Crustacean can release water to cool down the summons, especially the Panda and the Bird, whose shapes and hardness would deal them the least damage and offer the least friction against their speed.
So what you'd have is six summons dropping at unthinkable speeds on an opponent. The drops would be untrackable because of not only the speed, but the fact that Animal can bring them at any point with the opponent not being able to see inside the Chameleon-Chymera to see the handseals. Any sort of danger sensing wouldn't work, mostly because of Sasuke vs Lee. Besides that, the shockwaves produced would have most opponents splashed and pasted onto some rocks or dangling dazed in the air, ripe for the next summon to smash down on.
Remember how Bunta, dropped from probably 10m above, kept even Kurama down for a moment? Now imagine if, for all intents and purposes, that same Bunta had been dropping for 30minutes from the edge of the atmosphere?
Now that there is the most half-assed and lazy strategy, I even forgot to apply the intelligence that Itachi and friends are often given to godlike degree, yet it GG's most opponents!
Now here is the key factor: Animal Path has infinite summons.
Not quite, it depends on how much chakra Nagato has, since summoning requires such. But we know he's a monster so practically he has infinite summons.
Now this only matters because the actual summons are seemingly infinite copies.
We get this from ET Nagato summoning summons like the bird which had already been defeated by Naruto in the Konoha Invasion. We also know that Nagato gets Cerberus to split by using some repeat-summoning method. This tells us that there are multiple, practically infinite, copies of each summon, else the Cerberus technique wouldn't be possible.
Now he doesn't haveto do that technique on every summon, tho he could. As long as we know there are copies, it just means that any single summon can never be truly defeated, since its copy can just be summoned if wanted.
So with this Animal gets ahead of guys like Gai in that Gai can only use Upper Gates once or twice in any battle, but Animal can booty drop tye bird hundreds of times, or maybe summon multiple birds to increase output at once.
So let's give Pein just a tenth of the benefits that faves like Itachi get: just the least bit of strategy and common sense
Before I go on, let's establish some parameters
Firstly, the horizon of BFR: where would you put it, if at all?
See, I would think that if anyone, nevermind a trained killer, found themselves in some mysterious realm that can perfectly recreate specific locations, give them specific rules and tell them to fight to the death, then the least bit of survival insitncts within them would say to go all out, would have V2 Ei suddenly going V3 off the bat if he must because the slightest opening given to the opponent leads to his death, and against someone whom he doesn't even know how they ended up fighting. But to be fair, there is a particular mission with the BD and specific threads, so wierd concepts like BFR and prep time have to be introduced to facilitate these missions. Now common sense says that canon events are used to guide these concepts. So let's look at battlefield restrictions in the manganime. You had Gaara and Deidara, very first fight in part 2, going up to 10km in the air. You had Pein creating a structure whose outer edge probably reached 5km. You had Mutandara calling meteors from the heavens. You had Kisame on his bad hair day creating a structure the size of Konoha! But I won't ask for anything near those guys, ITT. How about 3,5km all round?
Now I'm good with that alone but since it's also an exploration thread I wanna address Prep Time as well.
Now I've seen folks claim summons shouldn't count for Sannin since those require a summoning contract and all that which technically is prep. Now I wanna be the one doing the ridiculing, but I kinda get where they come from. So it is in understanding the bros that I must remark that being a rule Stifler in that way goes against the root idea for the a matchups arena: testing powers, generally. Firstly, the very introduction of such parameters is a concession from the everyone that matches require some reality warping in order to happen. So calling on the rules thusly goes against the spirit of that concession. Also, see, in attempting such thing being too laxedaizecal leads to a grasping-the-wind scenario where there's nothing to work with, yet being too precise leads to a suffocating scenario where its impossible to work irrespective of what there may or may not be to work with. So in this case I ask for common sense, in terms of what is seen as fair to permiss. If you wanna be technical, just conaider how much I love my specifics . . . (Animal Path is not the character nor their body, but rather the range of abilities afforded by their 'element'. So Animal can't normally summon the other SPoP bodies because that is the hack made by Nagato using SPoP. Animal Path simply affords the summons).
So we can say that range limit is 3,5km all round and no prep is given beyond the norm?
Good, to it.
Now this works mainly for 1-v-1 fights. Animal being part of a squad usually would allow for it to be taken further, but it's easier to work with basic fights since its easier to measure the limits of the strategy. I'm currently putting that limit at Founders level, since that's where I think there won't be any thought-blitzing, if Nagato limited himself to only using Animal Path or if only that PoP were to be used.
What Animal does here is jump in the air and summon the Chameleon-Chymera around herself (she'll be in its mouth) with it already invisible. This means she's literally out of sight within 1 second of the fight. Given standard distance of 15m, see why I put the level limit at Founders? She may start by going underground and using the centipede or some such diversionary route but it ultimately leads to the Chameleon-Chymera.
Soon, she's completely out of reach, say 2km in the air. Sensing gives vague directionsand even the most specific ones still require reactions. Animal will not stand still and watch herself get chased.
What she'll do is summon all the others at 3,5km in the air, except Cerberus who'll occupy the opponent on the ground, even by splitting up. From this point on she watches them drop, accelerating to what I'd wager is 150kmph. See where I'm going?
Now you might think that anyone with a worthwhile defense can survive a simply booty drop, but what about six?
Also keep in mind:
- SS arms each created a shockwave/explosion as wide as PS is tall with their punches. Now they were punching at casual speed and being malleable wood each fist wouldn't have wieghed more than a giant summon. I figure weight and speed parameters would even out.
- The Summons have different qualities. The Panda can harden its body, I figure to steel quality. The Rhinoceros is a blob of muscle with thick skin. Most importantly, the Bird has a sharp, hardened beak. This helps with piercing the air but also with hitting small targets. Piercing damage works by concentrating all the force onto a small point. Now imagine if the force behind a PS sized crater was concentrated onto the tip of a beak?
Now I'd orginally thought of this for the Bird. Here's why: Rods of G-d (google/duckduckgo/yandex it)
See, with the Bird various tactics open up.
Animal can counter FTG blindsides by summoning the Bird, while its falling, right in place to skewer the FTG user who is right behind him. The sharp nature of the beak means that Animal herself can deflect dodge similar to what Sasuke did with Killer Bee
Seriously, lets have some fun here:
See, it doesn't end with the Summons dropping in on a pre-designated spot. That would be weak to anyone who can see them coming from 3,5km away! No, Animal can summon and re-summon them to change their positions while maintaining their speed. So if their speed is not enough to completely pulverise, Animal summons them back onto the edge of the battlefield to continue their falls. As long as the opponent cannot stop this resummoning, she can have them accelerate as fast as flesh can go without turning to crisps. How fast is that, think you? I'm thinking G8 speeds. No beyond that because Gai burning up is due to internal heat, not external. Anyway, the point is that they're dropping in whenever Animal wishes at speeds far surpassing sounds and tracking ability of most.
Its also possible to go beyond the speed of incineration since the Crustacean can release water to cool down the summons, especially the Panda and the Bird, whose shapes and hardness would deal them the least damage and offer the least friction against their speed.
So what you'd have is six summons dropping at unthinkable speeds on an opponent. The drops would be untrackable because of not only the speed, but the fact that Animal can bring them at any point with the opponent not being able to see inside the Chameleon-Chymera to see the handseals. Any sort of danger sensing wouldn't work, mostly because of Sasuke vs Lee. Besides that, the shockwaves produced would have most opponents splashed and pasted onto some rocks or dangling dazed in the air, ripe for the next summon to smash down on.
Remember how Bunta, dropped from probably 10m above, kept even Kurama down for a moment? Now imagine if, for all intents and purposes, that same Bunta had been dropping for 30minutes from the edge of the atmosphere?
Now that there is the most half-assed and lazy strategy, I even forgot to apply the intelligence that Itachi and friends are often given to godlike degree, yet it GG's most opponents!
Post automatically merged:
Now here is the key factor: Animal Path has infinite summons.
Not quite, it depends on how much chakra Nagato has, since summoning requires such. But we know he's a monster so practically he has infinite summons.
Now this only matters because the actual summons are seemingly infinite copies.
We get this from ET Nagato summoning summons like the bird which had already been defeated by Naruto in the Konoha Invasion. We also know that Nagato gets Cerberus to split by using some repeat-summoning method. This tells us that there are multiple, practically infinite, copies of each summon, else the Cerberus technique wouldn't be possible.
Now he doesn't haveto do that technique on every summon, tho he could. As long as we know there are copies, it just means that any single summon can never be truly defeated, since its copy can just be summoned if wanted.
So with this Animal gets ahead of guys like Gai in that Gai can only use Upper Gates once or twice in any battle, but Animal can booty drop tye bird hundreds of times, or maybe summon multiple birds to increase output at once.
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