Doesn't really matter. What I'm saying is it's a matter of whether one considers an unfinished thing worthy of recognition as that thing. Conscious or not is a matter of missing blocks. Add to that my belief in the existence of souls and you know I won't be cheering on pro-choice rows any time soon.
[Discussion] Is Abortion An Innate Human Right?
- Thread starter Luther
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Lightbringer
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Most people who believe in souls would usually attribute a consciousness as a part of that.
Ok, so then by your logic, would an atom hold the same value? Would you recognize a few atoms as a human being? I mean, they are part of the building blocks right?
Atom is a basic unit, I wouldn't call a being lacking atoms a human though. My logic is simply taking a would-be thing as an actual thing, take that how you will.
I'm not equoting an individual component as the whole thing. I'm reffering to an object's related matter undergoing a life-enabling process that leads to it being that full object. In such a case I find it justified to equote the two in a refferential sense.
Speaking of souls, it means a lot of things to a lot of people. Most common conception is that of a mind but there are others like it being the essence of life (anima) which was I belive the original judaistic impression.
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Lightbringer
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Answer me this then.
Do you believe in single payer universal healthcare?
Do you believe in welfare?
Do you believe in increasing the minimum wage?
Do you believe in a higher marginal tax rate for the rich?
Do you believe that we should help the refugees?
Are you for stricter gun laws?
Do you believe in the death penalty?
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CornyRainbow
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Personally I don't care whether a woman chooses to go through with the pregnancy or not because at the end of the day you're the one who has to live with it. Not me.
I just hate how people who support abortion try to lessen the blow. Oh "It's just a clump of cells so it's fine", "Well, it's basically a virus", "Don't feel bad girl. It's not even a baby. A fetus" and etc. Like call it for what is. You took the life of your own child because of whatever reason. Don't try and sugar coat it.
At the end of the day you that "clump of cells" or "virus" would have grown up to call you mother and it was made up from your DNA as well as it's father. So don't try and feel better by saying it was a clump of cells. It was your child and you killed it. End of story.
As sad abortion is. It's better than the baby being born and being thrown off the roof like 5 months into life outside from the womb like you hear on the news these days.
I just hate how people who support abortion try to lessen the blow. Oh "It's just a clump of cells so it's fine", "Well, it's basically a virus", "Don't feel bad girl. It's not even a baby. A fetus" and etc. Like call it for what is. You took the life of your own child because of whatever reason. Don't try and sugar coat it.
At the end of the day you that "clump of cells" or "virus" would have grown up to call you mother and it was made up from your DNA as well as it's father. So don't try and feel better by saying it was a clump of cells. It was your child and you killed it. End of story.
As sad abortion is. It's better than the baby being born and being thrown off the roof like 5 months into life outside from the womb like you hear on the news these days.
Lightbringer
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Because most people that are against abortion, Republicans specifically, like to pretend that they're "pro-life" only until the baby is born, then they don't give a shit. After that, it's all about war, discrimination, cutting welfare, etc.
So yeah, just wondering if you're a hypocrite.
Lightbringer
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No, they know the consciousness is in the brain, just not the exact location within the brain.
Pretty sure consciousness is your individuality. It's the voice in your head that makes you you, and makes all of the decisions in your life.
So I don't know who's debating that.
Sagebee
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I think the debate more so is what is consciousness and how it occurs. It fundamentally comes down to the question of do people really have wills of there's owns and have choice or are we just mechanical robots operating on impulses.
The question of the mind-brain relation has been one of the most important questions in philosophy of mind and metaphysics in general. The reason why many people are oblivious to this is the fact that reductionism is the only view being given all the attention. Cartesian dualists are still very much alive.
Lightbringer
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Well, like I said. It's already known that the consciousness is in your brain. It is what gives you awareness to your surroundings.
I mean I honestly just don't see how people can debate this. We're obviously not robots, and humans don't act only on instinct. Sure, we have the fundamentals of survival, but even then, there are things we do that go against our nature.
Philosophy is not science I'm afraid. So basing your decisions on philosophy rather than science is not the smartest thing to do, considering that philosophy does not always represent reality, whereas science does.
Bad Touch Yakushi
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Sagebee
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I agree to an extent, science can only speak on what it observes and can test, as it's important to physically break something down to understand it, it's just as important to conceptually break something down to make and guide discovery's.
Lightbringer
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I'm not saying that philosophy is not important, but there needs to be a balance. Philosophy is the metaphysical, so when making decisions that impact one's life, then be sure to have some grounded reference to base your decisions on as well.
