What peace? Didn't he die in an unnamed war off-panel? If anything, Tobirama has avoided the most wars out of any Kage through the creation of the Chuunin Examinations (which was a means of displaying military prowess through up-and-coming genin rather than warfare), although even with his efforts not all wars could be stopped.
Standards? What standards are you referring to?
He expressed his ideas to Madara when they were children, you're speculating that Tobirama knew anything of them.
Under Hashirama's leadership, there was no real village, as noted by Tobirama. People only belonged to their clans, and cared about the well-being of their on clansmen, especially the Uchiha. Tobirama's role as Hokage (to get the "villagers" to think of the village as a whole rather than seeking out their own interests) was fulfilled when even his subordinate, an Uchiha, thought more of the village as a whole rather than becoming selfish and focusing on his own clan's interests. Due to Hashirama's failure to eliminate Madara (he still believes at this very moment that he killed Madara), Obito was influenced by Madara which ultimately led up to the bloodline purges in Kirigakure and Obito attacking Konohagakure utilizing Kurama which then led to the Uchiha Massacre (due to them being the only ones able to control the biju excluding Hashirama with their dojutsu, they were the scapegoat used). Hashirama's inaction during his tenure as Hokage led to the deaths of many, and if it weren't for Tobirama, Konohagakure would be nothing but a bunch of power-hungry self-important clan members stuck together, a system that wouldn't last for very long.
So, as I repeat, he may be the greatest of shinobi, but not the greatest Hokage.
- Created Peace, which your boy Tobirama couldn't even get close to , Or hell any other Kage since then couldn't single handely create peace.
- Set the standards for a what a Hokage should be
- Laid out the plans which Tobirama latter carried on and installed.
- Kakuzu's fight is unknown, Madara escaped by himself, has nothing to do with Hashirama, unless your a dear fanboy looking for a excuse.
He is the greatest Shinobi ever. And the greatest KAGE. Under his leadership their was no coup. Under his leadership Konoha was the beacon of peace. Hell the only reason the current shinobi system exists is because of the man called Hashirama.
However lets talk about Tobirama:
- Hot-headed as usual, not thinking about the bigger picture, and ends up put to a corner the village's most loyal clan.
- Created the Chunin exams, which led to all the Bullshit that comes later as a result of those exams. (innocent kids dieing and so on).
- Gave rise to people like Danzo, with his ideas of "killing off emotion".
- Gave no power to the Uchiha what so ever.
- Under his reign the discrimination started, and the hatred cycle came into play. *_*
- Talked about democracy, but couldn't deliver
Lets not forget hes the only Hokage to be left on the verge of death, outside the village, while on a negotiation trip. *_*
No Kage created peace, Hashirama was actually responsible for a war, due to possessing several Bijuu himself.
I'd imagine so, considering he was the first ever Kage. Pointless argument, but whatever.
What "plans", exactly?
I disagree on Sacrisanct's point on Kakuzu, but you can't even attempt to refute with Madara. It's manga fact he let him live out what can only be described as selfishness - his good intentions aside.
He is possibly the strongest Shinobi ever and possibly the strongest Kage ever, not the greatest. Hardly a beacon of peace considering it fought in numerous wars in which he was inevitably killed.
There was no coup as Hashirama wasn't alive long enough to experience it.
Are you forgetting that Hashirama's dream was shared with Madara?
Good, let's talk about Tobirama.
"Hot headed as usual"? "Not thinking about the bigger picture"? You and I must be reading different manga my friend as Tobirama's efforts in putting the Uchiha in charge of the police force was for the greater good of the village and the Uchiha clan itself.
Gives rise to people like Danzo, who's every action was for the village, he states so himself. Tobirama died when he was under 16 and you're gonna point the finger at Tobirama? Please. And Hiruzen himself even admits that Danzo was necessary, I guess he was a bad Hokage too, huh?
"Gave no power"?? Being in charge of the police force isn't power? In a sense, Tobirama gave them too much power.
The hatred "cycle" was natural. It's an unfortunate by-product of the Uchiha's genetic deficiency, that is common to some, but not all.
And the discrimination was completely down to Madara and Obito attacking the leaf, considering the only people that can control the Bijuu were Hashirama and the Uchiha clan, who do you think they'd point the finger at?
"Didn't deliver"? yet it's stated that all Hokage at this point are now elected by jonin...
What is even the significance of your final sentence? King moron is back it seems.
What peace? Didn't he die in an unnamed war off-panel? If anything, Tobirama has avoided the most wars out of any Kage through the creation of the Chuunin Examinations (which was a means of displaying military prowess through up-and-coming genin rather than warfare), although even with his efforts not all wars could be stopped.
Standards? What standards are you referring to?
He expressed his ideas to Madara when they were children, you're speculating that Tobirama knew anything of them.
Under Hashirama's leadership, there was no real village, as noted by Tobirama. People only belonged to their clans, and cared about the well-being of their on clansmen, especially the Uchiha. Tobirama's role as Hokage (to get the "villagers" to think of the village as a whole rather than seeking out their own interests) was fulfilled when even his subordinate, an Uchiha, thought more of the village as a whole rather than becoming selfish and focusing on his own clan's interests. Due to Hashirama's failure to eliminate Madara (he still believes at this very moment that he killed Madara), Obito was influenced by Madara which ultimately led up to the bloodline purges in Kirigakure and Obito attacking Konohagakure utilizing Kurama which then led to the Uchiha Massacre (due to them being the only ones able to control the biju excluding Hashirama with their dojutsu, they were the scapegoat used). Hashirama's inaction during his tenure as Hokage led to the deaths of many, and if it weren't for Tobirama, Konohagakure would be nothing but a bunch of power-hungry self-important clan members stuck together, a system that wouldn't last for very long.
So, as I repeat, he may be the greatest of shinobi, but not the greatest Hokage.
1. Proof he died in a war? In fact during his life there was no war.. The first Shinobi war came during Tobirama's time not Hashirama.
2. Standards that were followed by ever Hokage since:
"The fellow countrymen of the Konoha make up each part of my body… those of the village believe in me, and I believe in them… That's what it means to be Hokage!"
3. Yet those ideas somehow magically came true under tobirama.. And yea brothers never discussed anything.. even though they discussed on who was to be Hokage.. yes Hashirama would never tell the guy who was going to be next Hokage about what to do.
4. You must be reading the wrong manga, since the manga states clans were now friends:
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"there was no village" are you high? They selected a Hokage.. yet your saying there was no village? wtfh. Incorrect, it was Tobirama's incompetence and the "unliking" he had towards Madara. And hell what Madara said ultimatly came true, that the Uchiha would be persecueted, all due to who? Tobirama. Tobirama lacked understanding. Which Hashirama had.
Madara somehow magically escaping death is Hashirama's fault? . Why couldn't Tobirama make sure he was dead? where the hell was Tobirama? Was he sleeping? Please think before you put the blame on a character.
Hashirama had specifically told Tobirama not to screw the Uchiha. THAT IS LOGIC. YOU DO NOT SCREW YOUR MOST LOYAL MEN.
If it were for Tobirama we wouldn't even have a village... Tobirama's hot head attitude and jumping in without thinking has already been shown twice, and during those 2 times, Hashirama is the one who has to babysit him.
No Kage created peace, Hashirama was actually responsible for a war, due to possessing several Bijuu himself.
I'd imagine so, considering he was the first ever Kage. Pointless argument, but whatever.
What "plans", exactly?
I disagree on Sacrisanct's point on Kakuzu, but you can't even attempt to refute with Madara. It's manga fact he let him live out what can only be described as selfishness - his good intentions aside.
He is possibly the strongest Shinobi ever and possibly the strongest Kage ever, not the greatest. Hardly a beacon of peace considering it fought in numerous wars in which he was inevitably killed.
There was no coup as Hashirama wasn't alive long enough to experience it.
Are you forgetting that Hashirama's dream was shared with Madara? Good, let's talk about Tobirama.
"Hot headed as usual"? "Not thinking about the bigger picture"? You and I must be reading different manga my friend as Tobirama's efforts in putting the Uchiha in charge of the police force was for the greater good of the village and the Uchiha clan itself.
Gives rise to people like Danzo, who's every action was for the village, he states so himself. Tobirama died when he was under 16 and you're gonna point the finger at Tobirama? Please. And Hiruzen himself even admits that Danzo was necessary, I guess he was a bad Hokage too, huh?
"Gave no power"?? Being in charge of the police force isn't power? In a sense, Tobirama gave them too much power.
The hatred "cycle" was natural. It's an unfortunate by-product of the Uchiha's genetic deficiency, that is common to some, but not all.
And the discrimination was completely down to Madara and Obito attacking the leaf, considering the only people that can control the Bijuu were Hashirama and the Uchiha clan, who do you think they'd point the finger at?
"Didn't deliver"? yet it's stated that all Hokage at this point are now elected by jonin...
What is even the significance of your final sentence? King moron is back it seems.
You have no evidence of a war under Hashirama's reign as Hokage. On top of that Hashirama is the one who ended the biggest war of all... lmao. "He created a war" lmao wtfh.
"He let him" I hope you do know what let means.. you basically stated Hashirama purposely let Madara live. However, Manga says Madara somehow escaped death. Though I can apply the same logic for every other konoha ninja , where the hell were they? couldn't they check Madara? Were they sleeping?
Konoha fought in war under Hashirama.. the first war started under Tobirama.. atleast get up to date on the history bro... Hashirama's death is unknown..
"There was no coup as Hashirama wasn't alive long enough to experience it. " Or maybe the fact that he knew how to deal with people the right way.. Why would you fuel a clan who had already been warned by Madara that the Senju would persecute them?
Tobirama:
Hotheaded:
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Sorry but if Tobirama had his way.. we would have a communist world.
Hiruzen was a average Hokage.... Can't be compared to any of the Senju Hokage. Yes Danzo not letting his men assist Tsunade, and foiling Tsunade's plan to fight pain in a 2 vs 1.. was for the village. Hell if you actually read the manga, he specifically states he doesn't care if the people of konoha die , aslong as he becomes Hokage. No wonder people like Kakashi don't like him =].
Highly false, being en-charge of the police takes you out of politics, you are basically the pets of the government. << True in real life also.
The hatred cycle isn't just in the "Uchiha".. its in every single shinobi who hasn't overcome it.. Shall i remind you the people who hated Naruto? or the people who hated Gaara? Killer B? or Orochimaru? Nagato..?
Discrimination was not solely on the attack on leaf, that just lit the fire on the oil that was spilled by Tobirama.
Hashirama wasn't elected by Jounin. Sarutobi was directly named Hokage by Tobirama.. so there isn't a another candidate who would even have a running chance. The Hokage title had became a "pass on" thing.
Do not call others moron, when your post shows your idiocy, by ignoring the things Hashirama did.
but if we are talking about the one who has done many accomplishments for the vilage then its tobirama KingHashirama
reasons:
1-he created the military force for konoha which consist of: genin, chunnin, jonin, anbu. this gave konoha soldiers, and this would later be copied by the other villages.
2-created the chunin exams, which is a great thing for genins to go up higher as well as teach them the danger of shinobi. later copied by other villages.
3-built the academy, which is a place for learning. later copied by other villages.
4-gave the police force for the uchiha as a sign of trust. although it was madara and obito that caused the uchiha massacre.
tobirama by far is the greatest hokage that konoha ever had.
here are problems of why hashirama was the main reason that war 1,2,3 started:
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so hashirama was pretty much the reason why wars started apart of the fourth war of course.
. Why couldn't Tobirama make sure he was dead? where the hell was Tobirama? Was he sleeping? Please think before you put the blame on a character.