In-Depth study: Minato>Itachi

[ajpn920]

I was thinking that itachi was a little stronger or equal to minato before, but since i realized that pple know when itachi wants to use amaterazu by knowing the air pressure like zetsu and nagato. This means pple will stop saying that if minato looks at the blood to dodge amaterazu, itachi will put minato in a genjutsu. Minato now seems stronger to me after seeing facts from this thread. :shrug:

Nice to know bro.

@ajpn920
there are more than one situation where the mark is around and he doesnt react. he reacts when kakashi draws the kunai, and when he already knows that kushina is in danger.
to protect doesnt necessarily mean that he can feel danger, it can also mean that he can come to her when he knows that danger is on the way.
read part 4 of the last post i wrote to kellzfresh.

by the way i agree with the people that posted that the thread has a right to exist, but i didnt read the other threads before.

Thanks but this is a question we have to consider. Minato mentioned that the kunai alerts him. Question: Alerts him of what? If you ask me, I would say that it will alert him to any danger because it will connect to the situation Minato saving Kakashi.

 

[minatoisagod]

man i already know minato is stronger than itachi but until more is revealed on him and his other powers i shall not debate a vs thread with him to anyone. Its seems he is the most hated character on naruto base even more than sasuke and thats saying something.

 

[Revan]

Nice to know bro.



Thanks but this is a question we have to consider. Minato mentioned that the kunai alerts him. Question: Alerts him of what? If you ask me, I would say that it will alert him to any danger because it will connect to the situation Minato saving Kakashi.

alerts him that it's drawn. that's why he doesnt come when kakashi looses the eye, it isnt for danger. since kakashi has his white blade and chidori, he will only draw his kunai when the situation is desperate, which is why minato comes to save him.

apart from that: how is it supposed to "feel danger"? does it notice the air-pressure-difference of an incoming attack or what is it supposed to do? it isnt about dark chakras in the surroundings, otherwise he would have noticed tobi earlier.

 

[ajpn920]

man i already know minato is stronger than itachi but until more is revealed on him and his other powers i shall not debate a vs thread with him to anyone. Its seems he is the most hated character on naruto base even more than sasuke and thats saying something.

I think so bro..haters gonna hate. Too many Minato haters on NB

alerts him that it's drawn. that's why he doesnt come when kakashi looses the eye, it isnt for danger. since kakashi has his white blade and chidori, he will only draw his kunai when the situation is desperate, which is why minato comes to save him.

apart from that: how is it supposed to "feel danger"? does it notice the air-pressure-difference of an incoming attack or what is it supposed to do? it isnt about dark chakras in the surroundings, otherwise he would have noticed tobi earlier.

If you consider Tobi's explanation to why Minato incorporated the mark and the word ALERT, it will connect to him being able to sense danger. He incorporated the mark so he will always be there to protect kushina. Take note of the word protect.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why would Minato incorporate the mark if he's always on her side?

Since he can't be always at her side, he incorporated the mark so he can help her in times of trouble. It make sense right?

2. How will he know that Kushina is in trouble assuming that they are distances apart?

The mark alerts him. This was being mentioned by Minato himself.

It's very clear that the term alertconnects to "sense danger" if we base on how Tobi explained it and how Minato described it.

 

[Revan]

If you consider Tobi's explanation to why Minato incorporated the mark and the word ALERT, it will connect to him being able to sense danger. He incorporated the mark so he will always be there to protect kushina. Take note of the word protect.

QUESTIONS:

1. Why would Minato incorporate the mark if he's always on her side?

Since he can't be always at her side, he incorporated the mark so he can help her in times of trouble. It make sense right?

2. How will he know that Kushina is in trouble assuming that they are distances apart?

The mark alerts him. This was being mentioned by Minato himself.

It's very clear that the term alertconnects to "sense danger" if we base on how Tobi explained it and how Minato described it.

if kakashi picks up the kunai, he's definitely alerted, because kakashi is fighting and, unusually enough, using the kunai.

how about he incorporated it so that he can check easily? maybe kushina even has a way to tell him, like what kakashi did when he picked up the kunai?

he said that the mark on "THIS" kunai alerts him if it "FLIES". He did NOT feel tobi at any point in time, and i'm sure that the kunais minato carries have ftg marks. He did NOT save kakashi when he lost his eye. He CANT feel danger, especially not via his mark.
dont ask others to read the text freely and afterwards, when your theory is proven wrong (the kakashi-example is a clear counter-example) demand the one word that might back up your theory is interpreted in the only way that would be useful. every interpretation like "he has the sign in her seal to be able to get fast to her, so that he can protect her" works at least as fine for that translation as "he has the sign that can sense danger so that he can protect her when the sign tells him".

dont just go and say: that can be interpreted in both ways, so he has to have an ability that he never clearly showed and sometimes didnt use for reasons that nobody would ever understand. that doesnt make sense. stick with what the characters show.
i dont go in a sasuke vs naruto thread and post: "sasuke can evade all of naruto's attacks because he has the ems and that enables him to see all of naruto's attacks. apart from that, since itachi killed some clones behind him and therefore can sense danger, sasuke probably has that ability too, so sasuke cant be surprised" just because i like sasuke more than naruto (which is not the case in minato vs itachi, where i like minato more than itachi, because itachi is a douchebag). it would be just something that could work out in my head, but there is no evidence that that really works, and it isnt probable.

i'm off to sleep, good night.

 

[choft]

How many times I have to explain that the mark on his kunai alerts him. Question: Alerts him of what? Are neglecting the scans I've provided. I'll post again and read it well.

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Tobi explaining why Minato incorporated his mark to the seal

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Just look at the scans and analyze it well. Please read Tobi's lines and if you can analyze then good to know. Don't be close minded.






They could sense someones presence because they are elites just as being demonstrated by Itachi. The difference is that the "MARK" on Minato's kunai alerts him that's why he incorporated his mark to kushina's seal. Read Tobi's explanation.

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It's good to see you responded. =)

First off, I did read both scans, and I can tell you're just taking it out of context. It was the fact that I read the scans and what you said that I ask you how Minato could "sense" the presence of danger.

I'm perfectly aware that you thought the mark could sense danger. Now show me proof that the mark can make him aware of danger. Because you haven't.

Now in the first scan, Minato says "the jutsu is a type that alerts me when it flies". Flies does not mean danger. I can throw a kunai knife through the air, does that mean I'm in danger? No. Again, I'm going to ask you the same question: why didn't Minato save Obito, surely Minato would have "detected it"?

Now in the second scan, Tobi talks about how Kushina "has a mark on her so Minato can always be there to protect her". I'm sorry but how did you interpret that as "the mark can sense danger"? Common sense would dictate that all Tobi is saying is that Kushina has a mark so Minato can always teleport to her and therefore protect her by being there with her. The mark cannot sense danger, it just gives Minato the ability to teleport to her.

Seriously, show me a scan where there is actual proof that the mark can alert him of danger, rather than poor interpretation of the text, and then I'll believe you.

 

[MasterofSenjutsu]

I can agree that this is a well-made theory. But I can't agree that Minato>Itachi. Or agree that Minato<Itachi. Honestly, I think Minato and Itachi are a bad match-up.

 

[ajpn920]

It's good to see you responded. =)

First off, I did read both scans, and I can tell you're just taking it out of context. It was the fact that I read the scans and what you said that I ask you how Minato could "sense" the presence of danger.

I'm perfectly aware that you thought the mark could sense danger. Now show me proof that the mark can make him aware of danger. Because you haven't.

Now in the first scan, Minato says "the jutsu is a type that alerts me when it flies". Flies does not mean danger. I can throw a kunai knife through the air, does that mean I'm in danger? No. Again, I'm going to ask you the same question: why didn't Minato save Obito, surely Minato would have "detected it"?

Now in the second scan, Tobi talks about how Kushina "has a mark on her so Minato can always be there to protect her". I'm sorry but how did you interpret that as "the mark can sense danger"? Common sense would dictate that all Tobi is saying is that Kushina has a mark so Minato can always teleport to her and therefore protect her by being there with her. The mark cannot sense danger, it just gives Minato the ability to teleport to her.

Seriously, show me a scan where there is actual proof that the mark can alert him of danger, rather than poor interpretation of the text, and then I'll believe you.

Minato can always teleport to her and therefore protect her by being there with her

If he's not on her side, how can he protect her without knowing that Kushina's in trouble? Who will alert him that his help is needed? The mark was incorporated with the seal so it will not fly right? Can you answer those questions. I'll check your answer tomorrow..need to sleep now..gdnyt

 

[Revan]

If he's not on her side, how can he protect her without knowing that Kushina's in trouble? Who will alert him that his help is needed? The mark was incorporated with the seal so it will not fly right? Can you answer those questions. I'll check your answer tomorrow..need to sleep now..gdnyt

what do you mean by "so that it will not fly"?

a theory is dead when there is a counterexample, that's the way it works in every science. or do you want to say that he let kakashi loose the eye and let obito die on purpose? and that his danger-radius is so low, that he couldnt feel tobi when he was half a meter behind him?

where does that idea come from? where did he ever "feel danger"? is there even one scene that cant be explained with fast reflexes? the whole theory seems to be based on minato's and tobi's two pages that 80% of the readers seem to have read the way that choft and I did. apart from that iSpeak said that he read a translation that was slightly different but didnt back up your theory and in the anime it's different too.

 

[BloodSeed]

i dont think that minato can sense danger, if that would have been the case, he would have warped away the moment tobi appeared in the room where kushina gave birth to naruto or when he appeared behind him on the kage monument.

the seals on them is to defend them when he already knows that there is danger. i think he modified the seal in a way that tells him when somebody touches it or infuses chakra, that's why he warped to kakashi not in the moment when he fought the guys who kidnapped rin, but in the moment kakashi drew the kunai.

itachi does not need to close his eyes for tsukuyomi, in 388 where he uses it against sasuke, he just spams genjutsu and follows it up with tsukuyomi. and where did you get the close range part from?

since tsukuyomi is instantaneous and minato doesnt evade eye-to-eye-contact with sharingan-users, he would be trapped inside tsukuyomi if itachi opened the fight with it.

apart from that we have seen that sasuke can spam susano'o all day, so it doesnt drain much chakra. itachi is pretty fast and susano'o pretty dangerous on close range. if raikage is able to track all of minato's kunais, i could imagine that itachi with his sharingan can do that too, so he might be able to jump to the kunai minato teleports to and therefore constantly force minato to teleport, putting him under stress. if minato then makes a mistake, looks him one time in the eye and eats tsukuyomy, he's dead. if he fights perfectly for like 20 minutes, he wins.

i dont know if others understand what AJPN writes about minato "CAN SENSE DANGER" seems like they misunderstood that part. YES HE CAN SENSE DANGER BUT NOT ADVANCED!!! its like he can sense danger and whats happening without seeing or looking. ITS NOT SENSING DANGER WHERE IS NOT YET HAPPENED!!!!!

 

[Revan]

i dont know if others understand what AJPN writes about minato "CAN SENSE DANGER" seems like they misunderstood that part. YES HE CAN SENSE DANGER BUT NOT ADVANCED!!! its like he can sense danger and whats happening without seeing or looking. ITS NOT SENSING DANGER WHERE IS NOT YET HAPPENED!!!!!

please explain what you mean. ajpn is talking about minatos seals.
do you mean that sensing danger is sensing incoming attacks? then he still should have been there when kakashi lost the eye or when obito was crushed by the rocks.
if you mean that he can anticipate where his enemy attacks by guessing his strategy, like what itachi did in the last chapter (580), then yes, he's able to do that, but not without being present.

anticipating where your enemy moves to still needs a vague idea where he's now, so he still cant fight blindly (we have seen that asuma and kurenai who have some fighting-experience couldnt do anything), and with all his teleportation, he needs to reorient himself quite often. looking itachi in the eye would be a easily made mistake especially if he does that for 10-15 minutes. if he survives that long, he's fine.

 

[BloodSeed]

Read the picture. It says the mark alerts Minato WHEN IT FLIES.
And he already knew that Kushina was in danger but he had to save Naruto first.
Your argument that he can sense danger is wrong.
You are really biased on Minato. I'm not saying he isn't awesome, but the only jutsu he has shown is : sealing, summoning, barrier, and ftg.
Itachi jutsu : fire style, exploding clone, tsukiyomi, amaterassu, yasaka no magatami, sword of totsuka, genjutsu,
and people forget to mention that 3 tomoe sharingan is accustomed to extreme speeds, as sasuke showed against Naruto (cloak mode).

yeah with all that power from itachi.. its so powerful right that sharingan of his.. but could not kill tobi for YEARS along with him.

but minato kicks tobis ass in just seconds

minato>>>>>>>>>>>ITACHI anytime dude

 

[Revan]

yeah with all that power from itachi.. its so powerful right that sharingan of his.. but could not kill tobi for YEARS along with him.

but minato kicks tobis ass in just seconds

minato>>>>>>>>>>>ITACHI anytime dude

he couldnt kill tobi because he couldnt attack tobi.
and all he's saying about his sharingan is that it's fine for reading extreme speeds and target many positions at once, so it's useful for a fight against a speed based fighter like minato.

apart from that minato is the more powerful ninja in many situations, and his mobility is like the most overpowered thing in the narutoverse, sadly it doesnt help at all against susano'o and tsukuyomi. that's why the fight would be close, defense kinda counters speed only, and itachi has with susano'o and his sharingan two anit-speed-tools. i could also imagine that gaara is a nightmare for minato to fight.

 

[choft]

how can he protect her without knowing that Kushina's in trouble? Who will alert him that his help is needed?

That's my point - Minato cannot sense danger. You see, I think you've taken Tobi's statement: "has a mark on her so Minato can always be there to protect her" as an explanation to why Minato can always save Kushina. I think that's wrong. I don't think Tobi was explaining that the mark can sense danger and thus alert Minato to saving Kushina. I think Tobi was simply saying, "Minato gave you a seal, thus he can always teleport to you".

I don't think Minato can tell if Kushina is in danger, which is why I asked you why Minato didn't save Obito. Because I'm sure Minato will have given a special kunai to him (being in Minato's 4 man squad). Surely, Minato would have detected that Obito is in danger and therefore tried to save him, but he didn't.

The only reason Minato managed to save Kushina that time, was because Minato teleported away with Naruto and left Kushina with a stranger (Tobi). Obviously, he was going to come back to her and save her. It was not because of any "sensing of danger".

I seriously believe you have taken those two manga scans out context. I'm not the only one who disagrees with what you have said about the "sensing of danger" part.

 

[Necron]

let the thread die already, people... U_U

 

[Darkakatsuki]

Didnt want to get into this thread since ive already had enough of it and tbh i would just give a vague post. Firstly tsukuyomi (at least itachi) cannot be broken by normal means. More importantly guy's counter to eye doujutsu is a fail for several reasons. Anyway i believe it was animal path whom had the gejutsu barriers in its brain. Now that barriers purpose was to stop the availability of information from lurking out, therefore trapping the person in a genjutsu. It isnt a genjutsu counter so to speak, but rather an interrogation counter. Its this same path that guess what, ma and pa frog caught in a genjutsu

You missed the point I was trying to get across completely, maybe I didn't explain myself well enought. The point I was trying to get across was that Nagato has shown us that people can place barriers that protect the mind, yes the barrier on his subordinates was designed to ward off interogations and not really genjutsu, but that's not the point, the point was that a "BARRIER' was placed 'ON THE MIND' for 'PROTECTION'. As in, the point was that the science protecting the mind with barriers is possible at the hands of a barrier expert like Nagato.

Now, Minato's fighting style was solely based on seals and barriers and he is the best known person to special in seals/barriers, it is entirely possible that he would have had a barrier that protects his mind against Genjutsu/interogation or whatever jutsu affects the mind based on the fact that a lessor individual (with that specific ninjutsu genre) was able to do it to his subordinates.

And yea you're right, Animal path did get caught in a 'SOUND' genjutsu which has the effect of setting up a 'BARRIER' prison inside the mind of an opponent. I'm curious to know though why you say Guy's technique is a fail against doujutsu based genjutsu.

 

[Darkakatsuki]

Didnt want to get into this thread since ive already had enough of it and tbh i would just give a vague post. Firstly tsukuyomi (at least itachi) cannot be broken by normal means. More importantly guy's counter to eye doujutsu is a fail for several reasons. Anyway i believe it was animal path whom had the gejutsu barriers in its brain. Now that barriers purpose was to stop the availability of information from lurking out, therefore trapping the person in a genjutsu. It isnt a genjutsu counter so to speak, but rather an interrogation counter. Its this same path that guess what, ma and pa frog caught in a genjutsu

You missed the point I was trying to get across completely, maybe I didn't explain myself well enought. The point I was trying to get across was that Nagato has shown us that people can place barriers that protect the mind, yes the barrier on his subordinates was designed to ward off interogations and not really genjutsu, but that's not the point, the point was that a "BARRIER' was placed 'ON THE MIND' for 'PROTECTION'. As in, the point was that the science protecting the mind with barriers is possible at the hands of a barrier expert like Nagato.

Now, Minato's fighting style was solely based on seals and barriers and he is the best known person to special in seals/barriers, it is entirely possible that he would have had a barrier that protects his mind against Genjutsu/interogation or whatever jutsu affects the mind based on the fact that a lessor individual (with that specific ninjutsu genre) was able to do it to his subordinates.

And yea you're right, Animal path did get caught in a 'SOUND' genjutsu which has the effect of setting up a 'BARRIER' prison inside the mind of an opponent. I'm curious to know though why you say Guy's technique is a fail against doujutsu based genjutsu.

Bare in mind, I'm not saying Minato had this seal or barrier, just that it is possible and like I said in my earlier post, in a thread speculation like that don't count, so I can't use this as an argument for Minato, but Tsukiyomi, while it can be used to argue for Itachi's case in this thread, also cannot be used as ABSOLUTE fact or automatic win because we have never seen Minato at the receiving end of a genjutsu nor has anything been said in the manga to suggest that he was a dud (Naruto/Jiraiya) when it comes to genjutsu.

 

[BloodSeed]

That's my point - Minato cannot sense danger. You see, I think you've taken Tobi's statement: "has a mark on her so Minato can always be there to protect her" as an explanation to why Minato can always save Kushina. I think that's wrong. I don't think Tobi was explaining that the mark can sense danger and thus alert Minato to saving Kushina. I think Tobi was simply saying, "Minato gave you a seal, thus he can always teleport to you".

I don't think Minato can tell if Kushina is in danger, which is why I asked you why Minato didn't save Obito. Because I'm sure Minato will have given a special kunai to him (being in Minato's 4 man squad). Surely, Minato would have detected that Obito is in danger and therefore tried to save him, but he didn't.

The only reason Minato managed to save Kushina that time, was because Minato teleported away with Naruto and left Kushina with a stranger (Tobi). Obviously, he was going to come back to her and save her. It was not because of any "sensing of danger".

I seriously believe you have taken those two manga scans out context. I'm not the only one who disagrees with what you have said about the "sensing of danger" part.

WHAT THE F*CK@BOLDED PART WAHHAHAHHA from now on everypost you'll made will be ignored since you dont know what your talking about. :rofl"

 

[BloodSeed]

he couldnt kill tobi because he couldnt attack tobi.
and all he's saying about his sharingan is that it's fine for reading extreme speeds and target many positions at once, so it's useful for a fight against a speed based fighter like minato.

apart from that minato is the more powerful ninja in many situations, and his mobility is like the most overpowered thing in the narutoverse, sadly it doesnt help at all against susano'o and tsukuyomi. that's why the fight would be close, defense kinda counters speed only, and itachi has with susano'o and his sharingan two anit-speed-tools. i could also imagine that gaara is a nightmare for minato to fight.

he cant hit him????? whats his "powerfull" tsukuyumi all about? cant he cast it on tobi. then in a split secs kill him :rofl: he cant do you know why???? because the only one that can beat tobi is minato ANNNNNDDDDDD naruto<<<"IF HE CAN FULLY CONTROL OF THE POWER OF THE FOX" it WAS stated. thats the real reasons WHY kishimoto makes itachi a tobi's bitch!!!!!!

 

[ajpn920]

what do you mean by "so that it will not fly"?

a theory is dead when there is a counterexample, that's the way it works in every science. or do you want to say that he let kakashi loose the eye and let obito die on purpose? and that his danger-radius is so low, that he couldnt feel tobi when he was half a meter behind him?

where does that idea come from? where did he ever "feel danger"? is there even one scene that cant be explained with fast reflexes? the whole theory seems to be based on minato's and tobi's two pages that 80% of the readers seem to have read the way that choft and I did. apart from that iSpeak said that he read a translation that was slightly different but didnt back up your theory and in the anime it's different too.

I asked I speak to post the other translation. He can't so I have to stick to the translation at mangareader and mangainn. If he can give another translation then that would help a lot.

what do you mean by "so that it will not fly"?

Since they are using Minato's line "the mark alerts me when it flies" then I'll counter that to the mark at kushina's seal..you know what I mean right?

That's my point - Minato cannot sense danger. You see, I think you've taken Tobi's statement: "has a mark on her so Minato can always be there to protect her" as an explanation to why Minato can always save Kushina. I think that's wrong. I don't think Tobi was explaining that the mark can sense danger and thus alert Minato to saving Kushina. I think Tobi was simply saying, "Minato gave you a seal, thus he can always teleport to you".

I don't think Minato can tell if Kushina is in danger, which is why I asked you why Minato didn't save Obito. Because I'm sure Minato will have given a special kunai to him (being in Minato's 4 man squad). Surely, Minato would have detected that Obito is in danger and therefore tried to save him, but he didn't.

The only reason Minato managed to save Kushina that time, was because Minato teleported away with Naruto and left Kushina with a stranger (Tobi). Obviously, he was going to come back to her and save her. It was not because of any "sensing of danger".

I seriously believe you have taken those two manga scans out context. I'm not the only one who disagrees with what you have said about the "sensing of danger" part.

You haven't answered my question. I don't think it's better to make our own translation. Let's stick to what the scan showed us and what was written on it. You want create another line so the question will be avoided. As you said, the mark was incorporated to the seal so Minato can always be there to protect kushina. The question still remains:

1. how can he protect her without knowing that Kushina's in trouble?

2. if they are miles apart, who will alert him that his help is needed?

If he can't tell that Kushina's in danger then he can't protect her always even if he can teleportto her anytime and it will also rule out Tobi's statement. If you can answer those questions above then it will help a lot but don't try to change what was written on those scans unless you can provide a new scan with another translation.