[Question] If Doflamingo was a Marine which position would suit his Strength?

[Punk Hazard]

Don't you think they would't point out, even if there are just 4 of them, if they were talking about whole crews.

Some Shichibukai have their own crews, still their crews weren't summoned to fight in Marineford. Pretty same principe with Yonkos.



One of the topics of this debate, is "Admirals are strong as Yonkos", if Marco is comparable to Admiral (with which I agree), than it means Admirals aren't really strong as Yonko, ofc it's not if you believe that Marco at that time was on Yonko level himself.



Four Yonkos don't work together. WB and Shanks, how are more or less good guys, haven't forget together.



Marco was actually said as possibility with other WB Pirates.

Plus, WB Pirates are largest crew and probably strongest Non Yonko crew at the moment. And even than, they were actually separed for other Yonkos in that statament.

Not necessarily. Again, I ask, how do you know that their fleets and crew aren't included under their power? We've seen high ranking Marines having ships and on it, many Marines that could make them similar to a pirate crew. For all we know, and this is highly likely, there are hundreds if not thousands of these ships, which is why the Times say "Even though there's only four of them."

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

I wld place him in tge exceptional group of pple like to call Near-Admirals i.e Marco, Sabo and supposed Yonko FM(not that sure about everyone here though), now these Near-Admirals can actually put up a good fight vs Admirals and if on a good day and its Oda illistrating the fight they can be seen rivalling admirals(I said Oda coz he is the only person who would give u Ussop vs Luffy in that way before it had been shown).

Near-Admirals r still VA for lack there of a rank inbtwn VA and Admiral, and that the VA lvl is quite a large Spectrum and not so easily compared to 4man made spectrums such as Yonko and Admiral.

In numbers I wld say
Weakest VA's = 100(basically these guys have haki but can still get beat by guys without haki but r have strong move sets)
Avarage VA's = around 300(have haki but fall to guys without haki but have exceptional move sets/arsenals)
Exceptional VA's = 400-500(U need some understanding and knowledge of haki to tangle with them though having exceptional,(plus) move sets is a great help if not a requesite)

Esteemed VA's/- 500-600/700, at the lower end those guy have 1 or 2 good moves that can rival moves from Admirals themselves but the arsenal and stats themselves arent enough to be comparable to Admiral as a whole.

Near Admirals- 800-900 yes these guys we all at times think they r admiral lvl, coz they can tango and waltz right up there but there is still 100's worth of these units till u reach bare bottom Admiral.

Admiral in this scale wld be a cool/shinning/hot/crushing/raging 1000 depending on the admiral though inbtwn them wld be variations of at most 50 of these units. P.S Half if not three quaters of the Yonko would have numbers that r in this range.

Legends, best of the Yonko, maybe FA and WSSwordsman would b around 1100 to 1200max depending on how much u fangirl/boy over whoever.

If u hadnt noticed this scale tips the hat a bit to the bounties especially Luffy's bounties and the boost he gets after some crazy happenings that usually come after some crazy power upgrades and maybe the not so easy to bring to the front,was the Rayleigh 100times stronger bit but its why this my scale maxxes out at 1.2K which yes is not 100x120 but thats coz I wld say the Boys now r 10times stronger than then and another ten times shld bring them to the summit i believe. Im not saying Zoro will be a 1200 or the Belli equivalent EoS but that he was used as a message tool in his comparability/parrallelisms to Rayleigh who was like the only somehow figurative nod to what the summit's lvls r(had to clarify).
Ohh before the bounties dont mean strenght return, im not taking the bounties but rather the boosts in luffy's bounty history and seeing what he was capable of and using that to form some scale, Remember morse code aint a language as is English or Spanish but u can still communicate with it so im saying bounty= dot, dot, long dot, dot, long dot yes but if u learned the cipher that might mean somethin else.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

"emperor like power".. Emperor like power is referring to influence and grand masses of Armies. Just look at the White beard army. If it was just 1 person, they would just send the Admirals to beat them individually... issue is they have armies under them. Hence why they are emperors.

Emperor like in the contest that they have territories under their control.

I will bold the text third time,

四皇 - "偉大なる航路"後半の海にて、皇帝の ごとき力を誇る海賊。頭は4人だが、� ��の戦力は他の世界的勢力と並ぶ 。
Yonkou - Pirates that shows emperor-like power in the later half of the "Grandline." Even though there are only four of them, their power equals to the other world forces.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

the marines is also with world gov whitebeard group got slaughtered

doffy barely did anything only cut orz leg and caught jozu

hancock was fighting for whitebeard

kuma only relaly did urse shock and off panel fought ivankov

moria did some things not much tho


etc..

Yes, World Goverment is indeed stronger than Yonkos. But World Goverment have to forces to oppose Yonkos, Marines and Shichibukai.

四皇を止める力として、世界政府は海軍と王下七武海を従える。
The World Government has Marine and Shichibukai as forces to stop the Yonkou.

the marines have suchibanki
thier admirals
the WG agents like all cypher pool agents and the goursei
thier retired (sengoku garp)
VA's
not to mention kong

1. No, Marines doesn't have shichibukai, WG has Shichibukai.

海軍 - 海上の治安を守る、世界政府機関のひとつ。敵は同じだが、王下七武海とは相容れない。
Marine - One of the World Government's organization that protects safety on the sea. Even though they have same enemy, they are not in friendly term with Shichibukai.

王下七武海 - 利益の一部を上納することで、世界政府から略奪を許されている。海賊への抑止力という意味もあり、その実力 も折り紙つきだ。
Shichibukai - By paying part of the profit, they are permitted to plunder by the World Government. This works as a restraint against the other pirates, and their ability is unquestioned.

These two forces work together only when WG say so.

they r the strongest tbh if u think about it any force by themselves would get slaughtered which is what happened to whitebeard... only person tht got injured really was akainu and even then his haki was enough to stop both marco and vista...

I am not arguing against Marines + Shichibukai + Chiper Pol >>> Yonko, I am agruing against Marine HQ > Yonko.

if yonkos want to **** up marine full force they need to band together cuz the full might is too strong

I am also not arguing that one Yonko can take whole Marines, I am arguing that 4 Yonkos can take whole Marine HQ.

I ask, how do you know that their fleets and crew aren't included under their power?

1. It's stated directly.

2. Title Yonko is title of captain. WB was Yonko, but Marco wasn't. Shanks is Yonko, but Benn isn't. Again, same principe is with Shichibukai. Why Donquixote or Boa's Pirate crews weren't summoned to fight in Marineford.

We've seen high ranking Marines having ships and on it, many Marines that could make them similar to a pirate crew. For all we know, and this is highly likely, there are hundreds if not thousands of these ships, which is why the Times say "Even though there's only four of them."

We are talking about Marine HQ. Marine HQ force is Fleet Admiral, Admirals and some Vice Admirals.

 

[KingHashirama]

Emperor like in the contest that they have territories under their control.

I will bold the text third time,

四皇 - "偉大なる航路"後半の海にて、皇帝の ごとき力を誇る海賊。頭は4人だが、� ��の戦力は他の世界的勢力と並ぶ 。
Yonkou - Pirates that shows emperor-like power in the later half of the "Grandline." Even though there are only four of them, their power equals to the other world forces.

YUp, there are 4 of them. All their armies are represented by them. Luffy's power is also his crew. Just like a Younkou's power is everyone under him. Thats why only 4 of them can equal the other world forces. Naruto exampe = Hokage's power being all the ninja of the village.

Garp and Sengoku would wreck Shanks.. and Garp could've probably beaten shanks on his own at marineford.

And combined they won't be able to take a Marine HQ, simply due to the fact that the Younkou are said to only equal the "marines"... while on the other hand, Marines don't fight by just themselves as shown at Marineford. They will have the war lords with them and etc. Its a complete package.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

YUp, there are 4 of them. All their armies are represented by them. Luffy's power is also his crew. Just like a Younkou's power is everyone under him. Thats why only 4 of them can equal the other world forces. Naruto exampe = Hokage's power being all the ninja of the village.

Now you are just twisting to fill your agenda.

Shichibukai represent their own crew also...

And combined they won't be able to take a Marine HQ, simply due to the fact that the Younkou are said to only equal the "marines"... while on the other hand, Marines don't fight by just themselves as shown at Marineford. They will have the war lords with them and etc. Its a complete package.

Man, once again...

海軍 - 海上の治安を守る、世界政府機関の�� �とつ。敵は同じだが、王下七武海と� ��相容れない。
Marine - One of the World Government's organization that protects safety on the sea. Even though they have same enemy, they are not in friendly term with Shichibukai.

王下七武海 - 利益の一部を上納することで、世界�� �府から略奪を許されている。海賊へ� ��抑止力という意味もあり、その実力 も折り紙つきだ。
Shichibukai - By paying part of the profit, they are permitted to plunder by the World Government. This works as a restraint against the other pirates, and their ability is unquestioned.

WB didn't fight with just Marine HQ, he fought with whole World Goverment.

World Goverment (Marine HQ + Shichibukai) >>>> Yonko

Marine HQ ≈ Shichibukai ≈ Yonko

Shichibukai and Marine HQ works only if WG say so. Shichibukai's employer is World Goverment not Marine HQ.

And what you saying here has nothing to do with what we talk. Topic is "Are Admirals strong as Yonkos?", will they fought together with Shichibukai or not, doesn't change anything.

 

[KingHashirama]

Now you are just twisting to fill your agenda.

Shichibukai represent their own crew also...



Man, once again...

海軍 - 海上の治安を守る、世界政府機関の�� �とつ。敵は同じだが、王下七武海と� ��相容れない。
Marine - One of the World Government's organization that protects safety on the sea. Even though they have same enemy, they are not in friendly term with Shichibukai.

王下七武海 - 利益の一部を上納することで、世界�� �府から略奪を許されている。海賊へ� ��抑止力という意味もあり、その実力 も折り紙つきだ。
Shichibukai - By paying part of the profit, they are permitted to plunder by the World Government. This works as a restraint against the other pirates, and their ability is unquestioned.

WB didn't fight with just Marine HQ, he fought with whole World Goverment.

World Goverment (Marine HQ + Shichibukai) >>>> Yonko

Marine HQ ≈ Shichibukai ≈ Yonko

Shichibukai and Marine HQ works only if WG say so. Shichibukai's employer is World Goverment not Marine HQ.

And what you saying here has nothing to do with what we talk. Topic is "Are Admirals strong as Yonkos?", will they fought together with Shichibukai or not, doesn't change anything.

Your failure to comprehend whats happened in the manga, and simply going from statements is the cause of why you keep repeating the same thing over and over.. without understanding what people are trying to tell you.

So when did i deny that the crews of the warlords aren't considered when they are made war lords?? Their crews are part of their power. A crew is part of the captain's power... If you believe 4 people alone can take on all badasses of the Marines.. then sorry bro thats not happening. If Kaidou/Shanks/Big Mama try to go against the marines by themselves, they'll be ripped apart just saying.


Marineford = Marine HQ.

Sengoku = the Marine Fleet Admiral , was the person who all the forces were under.


you mean they don't work together without Gorosei saying they can't.. which is true, but you must also realize that Marines are the main army of the WG, unlike the Younkou who are independent these guys aren't independent. To fight against the Marines you are fighting against the WG, like I said previously its a complete package. You can't fight against the marines without fighting against the WG. Because the Marines are a big part of the WG. Hence why when you try to take on the Marines you are gonna end up taking on the Warlords as well.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Your failure to comprehend whats happened in the manga, and simply going from statements is the cause of why you keep repeating the same thing over and over.. without understanding what people are trying to tell you.

I am repeating same thing over and over, because you haven't give good argument. The only thing you have done is strawman.

What happened in the manga? Old Sick WB destroying strongest Admiral, Marco fighting equal with Kizaru, Ace being actually able to off set attack of Aokiji. Are that Admirals that are comparable to Yonko?

And no don't say thing as they are not serious, because in that case you would go against your own argument "Your failure to comprehend whats happened in the manga". See how flawled your argument is?

So when did i deny that the crews of the warlords aren't considered when they are made war lords??

That argument was made against your argument about Yonko forces not being just 4 Yonkos, but their whole crews.

Why Diamante, Trebol, Pica haven't come with Doflamingo to fight in Marineford.

Their crews are part of their power. A crew is part of the captain's power... If you believe 4 people alone can take on all badasses of the Marines.. then sorry bro thats not happening. If Kaidou/Shanks/Big Mama try to go against the marines by themselves, they'll be ripped apart just saying.

Than I will "just say" that:

Whitebeard, Marco, Ace, Jozu, Thatch, Vista, Blamenco, Rakuyo, Namur, Blenheim, Curiel, Kingdew, Haruta, Atmos, Speed Jiru, Fossa, Iso, and other 1600 Pirates, together with Shanks, Benn, Yasopp, Lucky Roo, Rockstar with other Shanks' pirates, together with Kaido and his 500 DF user, together with Big Mom and her crew, would destroy whole Marine HQ. If you think otherwise, than sorry bro thats not happening.

Marineford = Marine HQ.

Nope, for example Smoker was in Loguetown, but still fought in Marineford.

which is true, but you must also realize that Marines are the main army of the WG, unlike the Younkou who are independent these guys aren't independent.

Man, noone here is arguing against that. -.-

To fight against the Marines you are fighting against the WG, like I said previously its a complete package. You can't fight against the marines without fighting against the WG. Because the Marines are a big part of the WG. Hence why when you try to take on the Marines you are gonna end up taking on the Warlords as well.

-.-

Yes, and where did I disagree with that?

Take away Warlods and you get Marine HQ. And Debate is more or less Marine HQ vs 4 Yonko.

 

[KingHashirama]

I am repeating same thing over and over, because you haven't give good argument. The only thing you have done is strawman.

What happened in the manga? Old Sick WB destroying strongest Admiral, Marco fighting equal with Kizaru, Ace being actually able to off set attack of Aokiji. Are that Admirals that are comparable to Yonko?

And no don't say thing as they are not serious, because in that case you would go against your own argument "Your failure to comprehend whats happened in the manga". See how flawled your argument is?



That argument was made against your argument about Yonko forces not being just 4 Yonkos, but their whole crews.

Fighting equal with Kizaru?? 2 of the 3 admirals came out of that war without a single injury, can't say the same for Marco. And Destroying Akainu? I sure didn't see that, I saw him landing good blows.. but hey Whitebeard was stronger than Akainu.. he was the strongest man alive, stronger than any other younkou also. The only people who could rival his strength were the 2 geezers who didn't bother fighting in the war.

Why Diamante, Trebol, Pica haven't come with Doflamingo to fight in Marineford.

Because Dofla didn't call them.. lol.

Than I will "just say" that:

Whitebeard, Marco, Ace, Jozu, Thatch, Vista, Blamenco, Rakuyo, Namur, Blenheim, Curiel, Kingdew, Haruta, Atmos, Speed Jiru, Fossa, Iso, and other 1600 Pirates, together with Shanks, Benn, Yasopp, Lucky Roo, Rockstar with other Shanks' pirates, together with Kaido and his 500 DF user, together with Big Mom and her crew, would destroy whole Marine HQ. If you think otherwise, than sorry bro thats not happening.

Yea they wouldn't.. Because manga has already they can't. Admirals = Younkou , thats undeniable. People like Fujitora are on Shank's level. You cannot deny that. And also, alot of the marines weren't there. They were posted in other sections of the world also.

Nope, for example Smoker was in Loguetown, but still fought in Marineford.

Thats cool.. so what? That means every single marine was there?

Man, noone here is arguing against that. -.-

-.-

Yes, and where did I disagree with that?

Take away Warlods and you get Marine HQ. And Debate is more or less Marine HQ vs 4 Yonko.

What i'm trying to tell you is.. You can't take them away. Warlords will work with the Marines.. they will be put under the Fleet admiral in a war against Younkou, unless the system is changed.

When you fight against the Marine HQ, you fight against the WG.. you fight against everyone under them. Just like how Whitebeard .. if you fight against his main crew.. you fight against his whole fleet.

 

[Punk Hazard]

The only way the Four Yonko and crew completely destroys Marine HQ is you're talking about the building.

 

[Misconception]

Really don't know why people think Aokiji can beat Kizaru...

 

[Forbidden Tale]

Fighting equal with Kizaru?? 2 of the 3 admirals came out of that war without a single injury, can't say the same for Marco. And Destroying Akainu? I sure didn't see that, I saw him landing good blows.. but hey Whitebeard was stronger than Akainu.. he was the strongest man alive, stronger than any other younkou also. The only people who could rival his strength were the 2 geezers who didn't bother fighting in the war.

I don't remember Marco being injured. Ace was completely fine against Aokiji.

Didn't one of these two geezers said that WB could destroy them if he wanted, or something along these lines.

Because Dofla didn't call them.. lol.

That would be his duty, considering he works for WG. Invalid argument.

Yea they wouldn't.. Because manga has already they can't. Admirals = Younkou , thats undeniable. People like Fujitora are on Shank's level. You cannot deny that. And also, alot of the marines weren't there. They were posted in other sections of the world also.

Really? Fujitora on the same level as Shanks? So Doflamingo attack Fujitora (Admiral) without much of a problem, while same Doflamingo is scared by Kaido (Yonko).

Yeah, Kaido should be Pirate King.

And, than sorry bro thats not happening.

I wounder why Marines haven't destroyed Shanks, together with rest of WB's crew, instead of leaving them. That's just two crews, not four and don't forget Marines has Shichibukai on their side as well.

Thats cool.. so what? That means every single marine was there?

Man you are the one who said Marine HQ = Marineford

I am saying that not all Marines in the war are part of the HQ. Not that every marine was there.

What i'm trying to tell you is.. You can't take them away. Warlords will work with the Marines.. they will be put under the Fleet admiral in a war against Younkou, unless the system is changed.

If I post a thread, Luffy vs Bonney Pirates, will your comment be: Straw Hat defeats them, you can't separete Luffy from rest of his crew?

 

[giostep]

Personally i dont know why people keep using the war of the best as a way to say Yonko</> MF. Doffy obviously wasnt going all out, i doubt hawkeye was going all out (considering that he supposedly = or slightly weaker then shanks in sword play), boa handcock didnt even really try to fight WB crew, Garp didnt play much of a role at all and the admirals only actually started fighting when luffy breached there walls ( as far as i can remember). Also towards the end it became a blood bath for the pirates they were getting wrecked.

OT:

Aside from Garp (through hype) and most admiral i doubt any marine can beat current doffy. Fuji along with all the other forces on Dressrosa cant even take down or cut the birdcage. So thats probably saying something about Doffy haki mastery and we know he is a DF master.

 

[KingHashirama]

I don't remember Marco being injured. Ace was completely fine against Aokiji.

Didn't one of these two geezers said that WB could destroy them if he wanted, or something along these lines.

rewatch/reread the fight brotha. Marco was pretty screwed up, compared to how the admirals came out without a scratch (except Akainu). Ace fought Aokiji in a small showdown ....

That would be his duty, considering he works for WG. Invalid argument.

But how does him not calling them , despite it being his duty, make it an invalid argument?? :erm:

Really? Fujitora on the same level as Shanks? So Doflamingo attack Fujitora (Admiral) without much of a problem, while same Doflamingo is scared by Kaido (Yonko).

He was honored to be complimented by Fujitora, and Fujitora can't do shit to Doflamingo because of him being a warlord.. Kaidou on the other hand controls an empire. There is a huge gap in influence. Admiral as individuals can take on the Younkou, but their influence is not as big as the Younkou's.

Yeah, Kaido should be Pirate King.

And, than sorry bro thats not happening.

I wounder why Marines haven't destroyed Shanks, together with rest of WB's crew, instead of leaving them. That's just two crews, not four and don't forget Marines has Shichibukai on their side as well.



Man you are the one who said Marine HQ = Marineford

I am saying that not all Marines in the war are part of the HQ. Not that every marine was there.

Because World government and the Younkou do not have a direct conflict against each other.. just like "why haven't the younkou destroyed the Marines?" And they stopped the war to show some face, as they were simply killing the pirates without any purpose. <<< Hence why Coby's speech was important. Whitebeard was killed, Ace was killed. The war was done.

Marineford = MArines Headquarters

Marines HQ =/= people

Marine HQ = building that is called the headquarters = Marineford (though i think they changed it now)

If I post a thread, Luffy vs Bonney Pirates, will your comment be: Straw Hat defeats them, you can't separete Luffy from rest of his crew?

Marine = World government's main army. They will fight with the warlords at their side when they do fight IN A WAR, because its already been shown.

If all the younkou combined try to take on the Marines .. the other WG armies will come automatically. lol. Its like declaring war against Whitebeard and not expecting all his army to come there..

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Doffy obviously wasnt going all out, i doubt hawkeye was going all out (considering that he supposedly = or slightly weaker then shanks in sword play).

The World's Strongest Swordsman is weaker than Shanks in swordplay. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

The Marines vs WB, his crew and allies=Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Roger, his crew and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Shanks, his and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Kaidou, his crew and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Big Mam, her crew and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The WG vs the 4 Yonkou, their crews and allies= Victory for WG
The WG vs the 4 Yonkou and Revolutionaries, their crews and allies= Victory for WG
The WG vs the SHs, Supernovas, Revolution, allies and half the world= Defeat for WG

All scenarios are without shichibukai btw.

 

[KingHashirama]

The Marines vs WB, his crew and allies=Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Roger, his crew and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Shanks, his and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Kaidou, his crew and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The Marines vs Big Mam, her crew and allies= Crushing Victory for Marines
The WG vs the 4 Yonkou, their crews and allies= Victory for WG
The WG vs the 4 Yonkou and Revolutionaries, their crews and allies= Victory for WG
The WG vs the SHs, Supernovas, Revolution, allies and half the world= Defeat for WG

All scenarios are without shichibukai btw.

The WG when they go against the revolutionaries , will most likely have pirate supports also.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

rewatch/reread the fight brotha. Marco was pretty screwed up, compared to how the admirals came out without a scratch (except Akainu).

I will just change my argument. Why unscratched Admiral hold his hands in the air after Benn point his gun at him. Benn is just First Mate of Yonko crew.

Ace fought Aokiji in a small showdown ....

It wasn't serious argument, it was just to show how flawed your argument was. Argument I am talking about is: ""Your failure to comprehend whats happened in the manga""

But how does him not calling them , despite it being his duty, make it an invalid argument?? :erm:

If WG calls Shichibukai, and if their crew make them influeced like you said. Than Doflamingo would need to bring his crew with him in Marineford, which he didn't.

He was honored to be complimented by Fujitora, and Fujitora can't do shit to Doflamingo because of him being a warlord.. Kaidou on the other hand controls an empire. There is a huge gap in influence. Admiral as individuals can take on the Younkou, but their influence is not as big as the Younkou's.

Fujitora already said that he wants to destroy Shichibukai. Doflamingo is also dirty for WG, it wouldn't be much of a problem.

Because World government and the Younkou do not have a direct conflict against each other.. just like "why haven't the younkou destroyed the Marines?" And they stopped the war to show some face, as they were simply killing the pirates without any purpose. <<< Hence why Coby's speech was important. Whitebeard was killed, Ace was killed. The war was done.

Yonko/Shnanks is directy enemy of WG. It was perfect chance for them to do that, since majority of Marine forcec were there.

Marineford = MArines Headquarters

Marines HQ =/= people

Marine HQ = building that is called the headquarters = Marineford (though i think they changed it now)

Marine HQ was located in Marineford, but not all marines present at the war were part of Marine HQ.

Marine = World government's main army. They will fight with the warlords at their side when they do fight IN A WAR, because its already been shown.

If all the younkou combined try to take on the Marines .. the other WG armies will come automatically. lol. Its like declaring war against Whitebeard and not expecting all his army to come there..

We are talking hypothetical.