I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

[sasori420]

Peaceful I agree with you on almost every point in your post, hell that was one of the best Itach posts ive read, but i have a couple questions
I do agree that Itachi could beat Jiraiya so im not arguing

Would Itachis Tsuklyomi work against Jiraiya, or atleast when Jiraiya is in sage mode? Kirabi shows us that if someone or something(8tails) floods thier chakra in them than Tsuklyomi wears off(assuming Tsuklyomi was used of kirabi). So Would the same work on Jiraiya? Natural energy is constantly being flooded in Jiraiya when the 2 sage frogs(ma and pa) are on his shoulders. They are constently gathering natural energy for Jiraiya and have their own chakra to puut in him so i dont think Genjutsu really applys in this battle at all. Like hell if jiraiyas genjutsu works on Itachi (who is best at genjutsu no comparison) and if jiraiya has ma and pa than i dont think even Tsuklyomi would work.

Also with Itachi and Kisame being afraid of Narutos Kyuubi spirit??? Im sorry man i cant buy that. I dont think they were afraid of jiraiya (or atleast not Itachi). Even by the trasnlastions people translate things in different ways, now im not saying your wrong i have no idea but i think that Kisame was afraid of Jiraiya and Itachi didnt want to fight him because Itachi isnt going to attack a Konaha comrade, Thats why they ran the minute that Jiraiya used a jutsu(toad mouth trap)

Having all that being said i still think that Itachi could beat Jiraiya, Itachi oncee said and i dont remember what chapter "only someone with sharingan can beat sharingan" and that doesnt prove much but Kishi said that for a reason.
So with the genjutsu cancelled out on both sides they need to rely on taijutsu and ninjutsu and plain smarts. Now Taijutsu, oh come on even with Jiraiya using sage mode itachi has a perfect taijutsu weapon and what could taht be?? Sharingan. Lee once proved to sasuke before the chunnin exams that even powers like sharingan pail in comparison to hard work or high speed taijutsu. Lee said that "even if yours eyes can see one step ahead of me if your body cant match its usless" well Itachi not only has a fully powered sharingan(which sasuke didnt come close at the time). Itachi has the body to keep up with high speed taijustu. Uchihas are said to be the warrior clan with exceptional chakras (stated by Tobi) so Itachi can keep up with most Taijutsu users. So even if Jiraiya is in sage mode Itachi can still see and keep up with his movements. And whose to say Sage mode jiraiyas taijutsu is unbeatable. Remember his fight with pain and when he first got in sage mode, Jiraiya tried going around in the smoke to hit the human realm and human realm stopped his punch with one hand (unless human realm has super streangth there has to be something to that)

Now for Ninjutsu, both have incredble ninjustu. But again I fail to see how Jiraiya can beat Itachi in this catagory. Can Sage mode (Jiraiyas best Ninjutsu/Senjutsu) block Amaterasu or Sussano. Some had a post saying that Those are Itachis trumpcards and wouldnt use that in the beggining of the fight. Well isnt Sage Mode Jiraiyas Trump Card? We have only seen him using it once and still it failed. No physical attack can work on ITachi with the Yatas Mirror and He cant be blocked with the Sword of Tsokta (however its spelled) or Amaterasu. Jiraiya doesnt have the defensive capabillity to compare to those 2 sublime jutsus. But itachi has the defensice capabillity to fight against anyone (except maybe madara)

So all in all this is what each has
Itachi
-Full Powered Sharingan
-An uchiha body
-Mangakyo Sharingan
-Tsuklyomi, Amaterasu, and Sussano
-Most powerful human Genjutsu user in the naruto universe
-Speed so fast that even someone with Sharingan (sasuke and kakashi) couldnt see his moves
-Younger generation always surpasses the older

Jiraiya
-Sage Mode
-Huge rasengan
-Toad Genjutsu/frog song
-A lengendary sannin
-More experiance

 

[SSJ3Gotenks]

What the hell does that even mean was pwnt????

And by the way like always you didn't read because you still aren't out of high school itachi did not Murder entire Uchiha clan by himself Madara was there he even eluded to that we all know he was there and wanted revenge on Uchiha for turning there backs on him. Also by the way buddy from what I have seen your precious uchiha are not the most invincable clan they appear to be they have lost to Sneju on numerous occasions especially Madara.

Uchihas never lost to Senju. Page please? Madara has never lost to Shodai except for one time. The databook says that the uchiha is the most powerful and awesome clan. databook>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you... This is proved.


you really don't read the manga do you all you read are these databooks. If madara or the uchiha were so damnn strong why didn't they run konoha because of the Senju. Madara got owned by the 1st hokage and is a shell of his former self. And for some reason needs the nine-Tails to attack Konoha.
Also buddy, Madara lost again when he had the 9-tails attack the village and minato stopped him you really need to get a life and quit spamming. No one believes anything you say and most of us are just because you are the most closeminded person on these forums and believe all of your theories as fact when they indeed are not and could not be. But you keep Quoting your Databook and i will go with the Manga.( and no offense to other Uchiha fans but the Uchiha have been the little Bit**es of Konoha ever since the start of the village.
And quit saying pwnt you noob it doesn't even make sense

 

[SSJ3Gotenks]

nice one Gotenks - in his face....GIMME FIVE!

and as i said that wasn't a hard thing to do(uchiha massacre)-they were all asleep

Exactly they were not expecting it so it was actually kind of a chicken shit move anyway to kill them all when they were asleep

 

[peaceful]

Peaceful I agree with you on almost every point in your post, hell that was one of the best Itach posts ive read, but i have a couple questions
I do agree that Itachi could beat Jiraiya so im not arguing

Thanks!

Would Itachis Tsuklyomi work against Jiraiya, or atleast when Jiraiya is in sage mode? Kirabi shows us that if someone or something(8tails) floods thier chakra in them than Tsuklyomi wears off(assuming Tsuklyomi was used of kirabi). So Would the same work on Jiraiya? Natural energy is constantly being flooded in Jiraiya when the 2 sage frogs(ma and pa) are on his shoulders. They are constently gathering natural energy for Jiraiya and have their own chakra to puut in him so i dont think Genjutsu really applys in this battle at all. Like hell if jiraiyas genjutsu works on Itachi (who is best at genjutsu no comparison) and if jiraiya has ma and pa than i dont think even Tsuklyomi would work.

First of all Sasuke did not cast Tsukuyomi. Secondly Jiraya ma and pa can be put into Genjutsu at the same time. Secondly Jiraya would have been mind raped with tsukuyomi in two seconds( while in the genjutsu world it lasts days) before ma and pa can act assuming they are not genjutsud. Secondly, i cannot see how the sage chakra will affect the Tsukuyomi, being already decrypted because Jiraya is in sage mode.

Also with Itachi and Kisame being afraid of Narutos Kyuubi spirit??? Im sorry man i cant buy that. I dont think they were afraid of jiraiya (or atleast not Itachi). Even by the trasnlastions people translate things in different ways, now im not saying your wrong i have no idea but i think that Kisame was afraid of Jiraiya and Itachi didnt want to fight him because Itachi isnt going to attack a Konaha comrade, Thats why they ran the minute that Jiraiya used a jutsu(toad mouth trap)

However it is, i talked about the possibility the translations are correct(they arent though, but whatever) I have listed with numbers the reasons they retreated.

Having all that being said i still think that Itachi could beat Jiraiya, Itachi oncee said and i dont remember what chapter "only someone with sharingan can beat sharingan" and that doesnt prove much but Kishi said that for a reason.

It is true.

So with the genjutsu cancelled out on both sides they need to rely on taijutsu and ninjutsu and plain smarts. Now Taijutsu, oh come on even with Jiraiya using sage mode itachi has a perfect taijutsu weapon and what could taht be?? Sharingan. Lee once proved to sasuke before the chunnin exams that even powers like sharingan pail in comparison to hard work or high speed taijutsu. Lee said that "even if yours eyes can see one step ahead of me if your body cant match its usless" well Itachi not only has a fully powered sharingan(which sasuke didnt come close at the time). Itachi has the body to keep up with high speed taijustu. Uchihas are said to be the warrior clan with exceptional chakras (stated by Tobi) so Itachi can keep up with most Taijutsu users. So even if Jiraiya is in sage mode Itachi can still see and keep up with his movements. And whose to say Sage mode jiraiyas taijutsu is unbeatable. Remember his fight with pain and when he first got in sage mode, Jiraiya tried going around in the smoke to hit the human realm and human realm stopped his punch with one hand (unless human realm has super streangth there has to be something to that)

Nice post. May i include it in the op? I will give you the credits.

Now for Ninjutsu, both have incredble ninjustu. But again I fail to see how Jiraiya can beat Itachi in this catagory. Can Sage mode (Jiraiyas best Ninjutsu/Senjutsu) block Amaterasu or Sussano. Some had a post saying that Those are Itachis trumpcards and wouldnt use that in the beggining of the fight. Well isnt Sage Mode Jiraiyas Trump Card? We have only seen him using it once and still it failed. No physical attack can work on ITachi with the Yatas Mirror and He cant be blocked with the Sword of Tsokta (however its spelled) or Amaterasu. Jiraiya doesnt have the defensive capabillity to compare to those 2 sublime jutsus. But itachi has the defensice capabillity to fight against anyone (except maybe madara)

So all in all this is what each has
Itachi
-Full Powered Sharingan
-An uchiha body
-Mangakyo Sharingan
-Tsuklyomi, Amaterasu, and Sussano
-Most powerful human Genjutsu user in the naruto universe
-Speed so fast that even someone with Sharingan (sasuke and kakashi) couldnt see his moves
-Younger generation always surpasses the older

Jiraiya
-Sage Mode
-Huge rasengan
-Toad Genjutsu/frog song
-A lengendary sannin
-More experiance

Can i include this post too?

@ Gotenks i only have to say that databook>you. I proved that when you said that Madara is the current Mizukage and the databook a previous one.

Also why did they select Itachi to kill the uchihas?haha i pwnt you...

 

[SSJ3Gotenks]

@ Gotenks i only have to say that databook>you. I proved that when you said that Madara is the current Mizukage and the databook a previous one.

Also why did they select Itachi to kill the uchihas?haha i pwnt you...[/QUOTE]


Manga>Databook>peaceful

they selected itachi because he was the most gifted and had already awakened his MS. You are right about the Mizukage thing but Kisame did address him as such in the manga. But I can admit when i was wrong how was I to know there was gonna be a different one now but he was the Mizukage. And NOW YOU SHOULD ADMIT TO EVERYONE HERE WHAT YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT DANZO IS NOT MADARA

 

[sasori420]

Thanks!

First of all Sasuke did not cast Tsukuyomi. Secondly Jiraya ma and pa can be put into Genjutsu at the same time. Secondly Jiraya would have been mind raped with tsukuyomi in two seconds( while in the genjutsu world it lasts days) before ma and pa can act assuming they are not genjutsud. Secondly, i cannot see how the sage chakra will affect the Tsukuyomi, being already decrypted because Jiraya is in sage mode.


However it is, i talked about the possibility the translations are correct(they arent though, but whatever) I have listed with numbers the reasons they retreated.


It is true.

Nice post. May i include it in the op? I will give you the credits.



Can i include this post too?

@ Gotenks i only have to say that databook>you. I proved that when you said that Madara is the current Mizukage and the databook a previous one.

Also why did they select Itachi to kill the uchihas?haha i pwnt you...

First thanks for the answers for the genjutsu thing and go right ahead and use my posts feel free

 

[peaceful]

@ Gotenks i only have to say that databook>you. I proved that when you said that Madara is the current Mizukage and the databook a previous one.

Also why did they select Itachi to kill the uchihas?haha i pwnt you...

Manga>Databook>peaceful

they selected itachi because he was the most gifted and had already awakened his EMS. You are right about the Mizukage thing but Kisame did address him as such in the manga. But I can admit when i was wrong how was I to know there was gonna be a different one now but he was the Mizukage. And NOW YOU SHOULD ADMIT TO EVERYONE HERE WHAT YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT DANZO IS NOT MADARA[/QUOTE]

And i do not read the manga! Ahahaahahhaahahahha welcome to my signature buddy! Itachi with ems?ahahahhhahahahaahaaha It is obvious who does not read the manga...

 

[peaceful]

Sasori@ No problem and thank you for allowing me to!

 

[SSJ3Gotenks]

Manga>Databook>peaceful

they selected itachi because he was the most gifted and had already awakened his MS. You are right about the Mizukage thing but Kisame did address him as such in the manga. But I can admit when i was wrong how was I to know there was gonna be a different one now but he was the Mizukage. And NOW YOU SHOULD ADMIT TO EVERYONE HERE WHAT YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT DANZO IS NOT MADARA

And i do not read the manga! Ahahaahahhaahahahha welcome to my signature buddy! Itachi with ems?ahahahhhahahahaahaaha It is obvious who does not read the manga...[/QUOTE]


See that is flaming and a personal attack it was a typing error and it was suppose to be MS.
Thats all i have to say I don't wanna hurt your feelings these are all personal attacks by you I am attacking the theories not the person.

 

[peaceful]

And i do not read the manga! Ahahaahahhaahahahha welcome to my signature buddy! Itachi with ems?ahahahhhahahahaahaaha It is obvious who does not read the manga...

See that is flaming and a personal attack it was a typing error and it was suppose to be MS.
Thats all i have to say I don't wanna hurt your feelings these are all personal attacks by you I am attacking the theories not the person.[/QUOTE]

Ah ok. LOL I thought i was arguing with someone who thought that Itachi has ems.

 

[SenseY]

 

[Vergil..]

i have found way around genjutsu that his sage mode :
since jiraya cant use it by himself he would summon Pa and Ma and being a fight with an uchiha they would have there eye's closed and since they can sence jiraya's codition in sage mode they can disrupt his flow of chakra.

now for susanno :
i cant get a away for that but since jiraya is a well informed ninja he must be able to recognise susanoo's sword and mirror so he would have to find another way to attack.

but what im saying is that people like jinchuriki and with sage mode can disrupt there chakra easily so genjutsu doesnt work with them if they use it right.
but from what we now is that itachi's altered sussanoo is unbitable until now.

 

[Alucard]

Uchihas never lost to Senju. Page please? Madara has never lost to Shodai except for one time.

You must be registered for see images

Yeah it says ''would'' but after that it says ''the rest'' wanted to make a pact so they wouldnt get killed. i feel like saying pwnd but whatever...

 

[Bancie]

You must be registered for see images

Yeah it says ''would'' but after that it says ''the rest'' wanted to make a pact so they wouldnt get killed. i feel like saying pwnd but whatever...

That's because NOT ALL Uchiha are Itachi and Madara's level, obviously. Some don't even have the Sharingan or a matured Sharingan.

Also, Uchiha and Senju are MOSTLY equal, and even though in the end, one would win over the other, it would STILL cause a lot of deaths to get to that end.

 

[Raz-K]

Sorry to be off topic, but where do y'all find this stuff about stats at? ohh and i'm not gonna be a part of the argument or anything, but the first and 4th hokages were unable to kill madara, now they are both dead while he is part of a group that just ground the leaf to dust, and this fool was scared sh**less of itachi so... >.>.

 

[a thousand years of death]

some of you say that itachi was afriad of naruto in kyuubi form. i dont think thats right. itachi could "control" the kyuubi with sharingan and kisame could sap away just the chakra if he doesnt go full kyuubi. which leaves jiraiya to fear.
and corect me if im wrong if itachi was taking about the kyuubi's caretaker itachi would of had nothing to fear, naruto wasnt that strong then. so why didnt he say kyuubi?
cause he was taking about the guardian or caretaker of the container. i mean jiraiya was taking care of naruto defending him from akatsuki after all.

also some of you said itachi was strong enough to get madara to fear him and jiraiya didnt, also that madara was stronger than the fourth.

i dont think anyone said madara was afraid of itachi, he said itachi was a thorn in his side but he also said naruto was a thorn in his side. i know naruto is powerful but if he was that strong then what is the point of the kyuubi if naruto has sage mode and is powerful enough to take on madara?
also no one has said madara was more powerful than the fourth. the fourth said madara say through him but nothing about strength. he probably is no but who knows about back then.

now about jutsu and strength. jiraiya has alot of knowlage and i dont think he would look directly into itachi's sharingan to fall under a genjutsu. kakashi did because he had sharingan and thought his sharingan could take it.

amaterasu sets on fire everything he sees but itachi's vision will be blurred and will negate the effect of his move reading ability for a short while after he will be weakened. the fire also takes its time to reach the target and as sasuke shows you can run for it if you are fast enough. sasuke got caught but jiraiya is faster.........and smarter.
itachi would be open for attack and jiraiya has alot of jutsu he could use.

that sword that itachi sealed orochimaru with was the only real option for itachi. jiraiya has not revealed much of his jutsu list so we can only guess what he has up his sleeve. i will only say he can hide and use that toad frog song. which i believe is the most dangerious genjutsu. why? because it uses sound. sound cannot be blocked or dodged. if itachi hears it it will take effect on him shortly. and covering your ears wont work. it allows jiraiya to stay out of site and kill itachi with ease. not even that sasunoo wont work against it either.

also last point jiraiya has more chakra. look it up.

 

[Orion]

Can you prove it? No. It is an assumption. I can assume that he can mind rape Jiraya as he has with Kakashi. The point is that it is more than likely that Itachi can genjutsu an incomplete sage mode Jiraya.

Can you prove it, no its an assumption...There is lot diffrence between Kakshi and Jiraiya...Even if Kakashi has sharingan he was not able to understand why are the fluctuations with Narutos chakra, but Jiraiya was able to understand it, so undid the changes by Oro...That proves Jiraiya is much more intelligent and has better understanding of chakra flow...So Itachi using tsukuyomi on Jiraiya just like he did on Kakashi, cant be proved....

-facepalm- I am not even gonna argue with this. Tell this to some other forum and you are probably going to get banned let alone the millions of neg you are going to get...


Zetsu, sasuke and orochimru s examples and databook overpowered Susanoo. Not me.

Databook can not always be applied....
Accoding to it, iruka was better than pain....
If you want to use then its fine...Read following...

Spoiler

now i would like to compare jiraiya against the strongest grade ninja

35.4 for both base jiraiya and itachi

Itachi Uchiha: Nin 5 - Tai 4.5 - Gen 5 - Int 5 - Str 3.5 - Spe 5 - Sta 2.5 - Sea 5

Jiraiya: Nin 5 - Tai 4.5 - Gen 3 - Int 4.5 - Str 4.5 - Spe 4.5 - Sta 5 - Sea 4.5

we notice that even base jiraiya is almost as fast as itachi ( who is one of the fastest ninja so far) (8 for itachi and 4.5 for base jiraiya)

also the intellgente of base jiraiya is almost as good as itachi too who was called a genius (itachi 5 and base jiraiya 4.5) ( tsunade and orochimaru also have 5)

now look the tai jutsu for someone like base jiraiya who have offensive jutsu , he have the same tai jutsu of itachi

i have shown you that thoses 3 states were supposed to be much better for itachi compare to jiraiya since itachi is a genius ( intelligence) , a very good taijutsu ninja with his sharingan , and someone who have a awesome speed with his sharingan)
but still base jiraiya compere easely with him


now hermit mod vs MS itachi

Itachi Uchiha MS :
-Nin >>5 ( he have amateratsu , susanno)
- Tai 4.5 (same tai jutsu)
- Gen 5 ( much better since he have tsukyomi but it still won't work with severals opponent or with 2 mind (body) in one person ( like jiraiya HM or hachibi)
- Int 5 ( same intelligente)
- Str 3.5 ( same )
- Spe 5 ( same)
- Sta 1.5 ( less than before because MS use much better than before , so he will be out of chakra very fast)
- Sea 5

now
Jiraiya HM
-Nin much >>> >>5 ( he have jutsu from pa , ma and senjutsu)
- Tai much >>>>>5 ( have have hermit mod taijutsu as we have seen against pein)
- Gen >>>5 ( he have frog song and some other that pa and ma didn't show)
- Int >>>>>5 ( he have his own intelligente and experience and also ma and pa intelligence)
- Str >>>>>5 ( even stronger than tsunade herself
- Spe >>>>>>5 ( with senjutsu his speed is the higher)
- Sta >>>>5 ( with senjutsu his chakra is much better , during pein fight , he was never out of chakra)
- Sea >>>5 ( hermit mod senjutsu)

n base mode as well as in their super mode, they are equal...As I said in my first post in this thread, o one overpowers others...

No it is not. Kakahi did not manage to see Itachis seals with his three tomoe sharingan while Itachi was only seventeen and did not even try. I doubti jiraya can do the same. I did not see such a feat against Pain.
.

In Sage mode, raflexes also tend to become faster. If kakashi was able to predict Itachis move, then why not Jiraiya. As I have already proved, Jiraiya was smarter than kakashi, and has much more experience, can have see through Itachis moves...

Even in the Picture you provided it augments what i am saying. Only in the end Itachi refers to Jiraya where he says Yeah but every hero has a weakness responding to Kisames comment" that even The uchiha prodigy and one of the seven tc.. pales to his sannin reputation"...

So wat does that means....Sannins strength...
People always give Itachis fight with Oro as an example, please, We only know oro lost, nothing else,,,Oro has a bad habit of underestimating his opponents, Jiraiya has shown to be a better fighter with better intuition....He knew the outcome of his fight with pain even before goin in fight, so he secured toad key...

Jiraiya and Itachi is like a fight between Lion and Tiger, both are best...One who gabs others throat first will win...As it can be seen their base and super mode stats are equal....Luck plays important part...And in this series, luck is in hands of Kishi.......

 

[griems]

To SSJ4Naruto: Amen!

 

[peaceful]

You must be registered for see images

Yeah it says ''would'' but after that it says ''the rest'' wanted to make a pact so they wouldnt get killed. i feel like saying pwnd but whatever...

If you have been reading the chapters you woulfd have knoiwn that they grow tired of figthting. No superiority or inferiority matter...

some of you say that itachi was afriad of naruto in kyuubi form. i dont think thats right. itachi could "control" the kyuubi with sharingan and kisame could sap away just the chakra if he doesnt go full kyuubi. which leaves jiraiya to fear.
and corect me if im wrong if itachi was taking about the kyuubi's caretaker itachi would of had nothing to fear, naruto wasnt that strong then. so why didnt he say kyuubi?

The answewr is inside the op. Ih ave already answered this in the first pages.

also some of you said itachi was strong enough to get madara to fear him and jiraiya didnt, also that madara was stronger than the fourth.

i dont think anyone said madara was afraid of itachi, he said itachi was a thorn in his side but he also said naruto was a thorn in his side. i know naruto is powerful but if he was that strong then what is the point of the kyuubi if naruto has sage mode and is powerful enough to take on madara?
also no one has said madara was more powerful than the fourth. the fourth said madara say through him but nothing about strength. he probably is no but who knows about back then.

No. No. NO. Madara started tho set his plans in motion after Itachi died. No comparison to Naruto who is styronger than Jiraya... Minato admited his inferiority to Madara when he said you need special power to defeat that man...

now about jutsu and strength. jiraiya has alot of knowlage and i dont think he would look directly into itachi's sharingan to fall under a genjutsu. kakashi did because he had sharingan and thought his sharingan could take it

.
i dont care what you think. I dont think that jiraya wou;ld last more than 5 seconds. What does that mean?

amaterasu sets on fire everything he sees but itachi's vision will be blurred and will negate the effect of his move reading ability for a short while after he will be weakened. the fire also takes its time to reach the target and as sasuke shows you can run for it if you are fast enough. sasuke got caught but jiraiya is faster.........and smarter.

Sasuke is faster than Jiraya. Itachi did not want to hit Sasuke with Amaterasu. And Itachis vision will not be blurred(wtf?)

itachi would be open for attack and jiraiya has alot of jutsu he could use.

lol... speculation. fanfic etc...

that sword that itachi sealed orochimaru with was the only real option for itachi. jiraiya has not revealed much of his jutsu list so we can only guess what he has up his sleeve. i will only say he can hide and use that toad frog song. which i believe is the most dangerious genjutsu. why? because it uses sound. sound cannot be blocked or dodged. if itachi hears it it will take effect on him shortly. and covering your ears wont work. it allows jiraiya to stay out of site and kill itachi with ease. not even that sasunoo wont work against it either.

Itachi has many jutsus up his sleeve too. You havent read the op have you? i have already proved the way Itachi can block the song...

also last point jiraiya has more chakra. look it up.

Where? Page?

Can you prove it, no its an assumption...There is lot diffrence between Kakshi and Jiraiya...Even if Kakashi has sharingan he was not able to understand why are the fluctuations with Narutos chakra, but Jiraiya was able to understand it, so undid the changes by Oro...That proves Jiraiya is much more intelligent and has better understanding of chakra flow...So Itachi using tsukuyomi on Jiraiya just like he did on Kakashi, cant be proved....

So what? -facepalm- The fact that Jiraya is knowledgable wont help him if he cannot do anything.... its out of his reach... on the contrary Kakashi had a sharingan and is a good genjutsu user...

Databook can not always be applied....
Accoding to it, iruka was better than pain....
If you want to use then its fine...Read following...

Iruka was better than Pain? lol.... Are you retard? Dont sprout nosense....

Spoiler

now i would like to compare jiraiya against the strongest grade ninja

35.4 for both base jiraiya and itachi

Itachi Uchiha: Nin 5 - Tai 4.5 - Gen 5 - Int 5 - Str 3.5 - Spe 5 - Sta 2.5 - Sea 5

Jiraiya: Nin 5 - Tai 4.5 - Gen 3 - Int 4.5 - Str 4.5 - Spe 4.5 - Sta 5 - Sea 4.5

we notice that even base jiraiya is almost as fast as itachi ( who is one of the fastest ninja so far) (8 for itachi and 4.5 for base jiraiya)

also the intellgente of base jiraiya is almost as good as itachi too who was called a genius (itachi 5 and base jiraiya 4.5) ( tsunade and orochimaru also have 5)

now look the tai jutsu for someone like base jiraiya who have offensive jutsu , he have the same tai jutsu of itachi

i have shown you that thoses 3 states were supposed to be much better for itachi compare to jiraiya since itachi is a genius ( intelligence) , a very good taijutsu ninja with his sharingan , and someone who have a awesome speed with his sharingan)
but still base jiraiya compere easely with him


now hermit mod vs MS itachi

Itachi Uchiha MS :
-Nin >>5 ( he have amateratsu , susanno)
- Tai 4.5 (same tai jutsu)
- Gen 5 ( much better since he have tsukyomi but it still won't work with severals opponent or with 2 mind (body) in one person ( like jiraiya HM or hachibi)
- Int 5 ( same intelligente)
- Str 3.5 ( same )
- Spe 5 ( same)
- Sta 1.5 ( less than before because MS use much better than before , so he will be out of chakra very fast)
- Sea 5

now
Jiraiya HM
-Nin much >>> >>5 ( he have jutsu from pa , ma and senjutsu)
- Tai much >>>>>5 ( have have hermit mod taijutsu as we have seen against pein)
- Gen >>>5 ( he have frog song and some other that pa and ma didn't show)
- Int >>>>>5 ( he have his own intelligente and experience and also ma and pa intelligence)
- Str >>>>>5 ( even stronger than tsunade herself
- Spe >>>>>>5 ( with senjutsu his speed is the higher)
- Sta >>>>5 ( with senjutsu his chakra is much better , during pein fight , he was never out of chakra)
- Sea >>>5 ( hermit mod senjutsu)

Well if he cannot escape Susanoo all these stats are uselless. By the way they are potential numbers. So all this you have done is uselless.......

n

base mode as well as in their super mode, they are equal...As I said in my first post in this thread, o one overpowers others...

In Sage mode, raflexes also tend to become faster. If kakashi was able to predict Itachis move, then why not Jiraiya. As I have already proved, Jiraiya was smarter than kakashi, and has much more experience, can have see through Itachis moves...

Ig=f he doesnt have sharingan and faces a more mature Itachi than the first part who is bloodlusted he will get a kunai in his ass before he goes to sage mode...

So wat does that means....Sannins strength...
People always give Itachis fight with Oro as an example, please, We only know oro lost, nothing else,,,Oro has a bad habit of underestimating his opponents, Jiraiya has shown to be a better fighter with better intuition....He knew the outcome of his fight with pain even before goin in fight, so he secured toad key..

.
Oro lost to genjutsu in an area he is excellent. Imagine Jiraya....

Jiraiya and Itachi is like a fight between Lion and Tiger, both are best...One who gabs others throat first will win...As it can be seen their base and super mode stats are equal....Luck plays important part...And in this series, luck is in hands of Kishi.......

Unless Kishi shows us a weakness that Itachi has, he wil.l remain stronger than Jiraya...

Sorry to be off topic, but where do y'all find this stuff about stats at? ohh and i'm not gonna be a part of the argument or anything, but the first and 4th hokages were unable to kill madara, now they are both dead while he is part of a group that just ground the leaf to dust, and this fool was scared sh**less of itachi so... >.>.

AMEN.

 

[Nadare]

Then why did they pick Itachi and not someone else? haha I just pwnt you!

maybe because he was the only one, that was ruined enough to make an own clan massacre....

who pwnt who?