This thread is primarily about the war and it focuses on Kishi's decisions regarding the Akatsuki, Tobi, Madara, the shinobi alliance and everything regarding WHEN Kishi decided to reveal them. While I will be very critical of Kishi at times, I want to let you know that this thread is mainly about DEFENDING how Kishi has gone about the war and possible reasons why he decided to do it like this. Just to warn you, I think this is turning out to be one of my longest threads ever, so be prepared 
.
(If you desperately need a summary, I added a simple two line explanation near the end... [its bolded]).
Now I want to start by saying the inspiration for this thread were actually the recent chapters of Bleach. I'm gonna put some spoilers in here, so only read if you are caught up with Bleach:
For those who didn't read this, the main point was that Bleach seemed like it was on its way out. Kubo set things up in a way that he could have ended it soon, but he didn't, instead he came up with a way to delay things. Even though it was a total ass-pull on his part, he kept things going and I think we can all thank him for that. My point here is that Kishi does not have this luxury, and even if he felt that he did, his chance to do so has long since past.
Over and over, as Tobi was getting more and more utterly pounded on I told myself things like, "Tobi has to retreat, he absolutely has to retreat" and "there is no other way, Tobi has to retreat now or its all over". Every opportunity Kishi had to extend things, he didn't do it.
Now for me, the reason I think he dug himself a hole like this was because of Tobi. He introduced Tobi WAAAAAAYYYY to early, he dove too deep into the Akatsuki too fast, he started revealing things about Madara too fast. I mean Tobi and Madara are the final villians, there is no real way around that. Kishi has put all his chips in the center, and he did it a long time ago. With everything that has happened, Kishi simply has no where else to go but to finish this plot-line.... and where does that plot-line leave? To the end of his manga.
What I'm getting at is as soon as he made it Akatsuki vs. the World......... it was all over. Who's gonna be the villain after this? Oro? Please xd. How bout other Shinobi villages? Nope, they are all allied now and we know everything about all their top shinobi, it simply aint gonna happen. What I'm trying to say he is Kishi absolutely hung himself out to dry ending things like this.
To make things more clear, think about how many story lines Kishi outright WASTED!!!:
1. The 7 ninja swordsman
2. The 10 elemental KG
3. The other shinobi villages
4. Other possible hidden KG (like Kimimaro's)
(Now I'm not going to count things like stories of past Kage's and such, that was actually a line of plot that Kishi created THROUGH the war, so there is nothing I can really say about that.)
What I'm getting at is did things like the 7SM mean nothing to Kishi in the end? In the beginning, the 7SM were like a second Akatsuki, all mysterious and clearly comprised of Top shinobi. We even got the impression at the time THAT THEY WERE ALL STILL ALIVE! But no, Kishi later tells us that only 3 were alive at the start of the series, all the others were dead. I MEAN WHAT A TOTAL WASTE!! Why not increase the life of your manga by 200+ chapters by having the heroes fight the 7SM for 200 chapters then reveal the Akatsuki later? Why not continue to reveal the elemental KG piece by piece instead of revealing OVER HALF OF THEM IN A SINGLE ARC??!! Why not have the Leaf and Sand fight battles with the other villages for 200 chapters and slowly reveal their top shinobi as opposed to revealing all the top shinobi of the remaining 3 villages in essentially 10 short chapters?
Now there's my primary venting, but seriously, how could Kishi let all these possible plot lines go to waste? Even after Sasuke left, he could have tackled these subjects much more in depth. He could have even tackled some of these pre-shippuden. But no, as soon as Tobi and Madara (in theory) were in the picture, Kishi sealed his fate.
Now this may just sound like I'm complaining, but this is largely a way TO DEFEND KISHI AND THE WAY HE DID THE WAR. I mean obviously Kishi led the story in the direction he wanted to, there's no doubts there, BUT HOW ELSE COULD HE HAVE GONE THROUGH WITH THIS IN ANY OTHER WAY?? The only way he could reveal the other 7SM at this point was if he revived them, no way to argue that. The only way he could reveal all the other KG is if he miraculously invented new shinobi to showcase them, no way to argue that either. The only way he was able to showcase all the other villages and what they had to offer was to create the Shinobi alliance to tackle the problem together, also hard to argue.
The bottom line is that the war, as he is conducting it, was essentially the only way he could complete all these story-lines while still keeping within a relatively reasonable arc length. I mean this arc can't go forever, and how long did Madara toy with the Kage? How long did Tobi get his ass beat and kept going? How long did Kishi outright create new, powerful shinobi to showcase? HOW LONG DID WE GO WITHOUT KNOWING WHO TOBI ACTUALLY WAS?? The bottom line I'm getting at is that Kishi actually MILKED this arc for all it was worth, he essentially extended it far more than I could have imagined considering how strongly intertwined his two final villains were involved with it.
I mean by the time Kishi committed to the war, as I've already implied, it was essentially over. He couldn't have really stopped the fighting half-way through, kind of like Kubo just did, and resume it later, not with all the chips falling onto the table like they were. The only other way I could have seen Kishi extending this other than introducing Tobi/ Madara later was to have Tobi go into hiding as soon as Pain/ Sasuke failed. If he simply gave up on the ambition at that time and went into hiding, Kishi might have had ways to extend things. But instead, Kishi dives straight into a war that essentially marks the end of his manga, but he clearly did so because he felt he was ready to start revealing all the secrets of his story. But again, the only way I could have seen a way around this was if Kishi took more time introducing the story-lines regarding Tobi and Madara. He could have spent an extended period of time concentrating on other storylines long before ever revealing Tobi/ Madara.
Despite all the flaws I can see, all in all, I feel that Kishi has essentially done the best job possible when it comes to finishing his manga. Considering everything, most notably the fact that he has had his 2 final villians involved in the story for over 300 chapters, there is really no way to argue that he could have kept the story going for too much longer than this. I feel that he simply had very limited time to reveal secrets unrelated to the Tobi/ Madara story and had to patch them into the war as best as he could. I do feel that he wasted a large number of plot lines that had a lot of potential, but I think he chose this direction over other possible ones because he felt that this was the story he wanted to tell and reveal to the world. One part of me could say I'm quite frustrated with how things have gone, but considering everything, considering how long Tobi has been involved in this, how else could Kishi have really gone with this? I honestly feel that Kishi's problem was rooted way back in the early chapters of revealing Tobi, and not so much the war. TBH, I think the war was more a result of bad planning from early on, not a bad decision in general.
Now to summarize this thread in two sentences, I feel that once Kishi committed to the war, there was really no other way for him to do it and I feel he did many parts well. However, I feel that his planning before that was flawed and he could have much better managed his time when it came developing other story lines as opposed to diving right into his final villains and the final aspects of his story line.
Now if you feel strongly against this or have your own thoughts to share on the matter, do not hesitate to do so. I simply feel that all this bad hype going around, while it has its reasons, may not be as well deserved as we think. I feel that Kishi might simply have gotten too excited and went straight for the jugular to early in this manga. Either way, please do not hesitate to give your feedback on the matter.
Oh and thx for reading xdxd.
. (If you desperately need a summary, I added a simple two line explanation near the end... [its bolded
]).Now I want to start by saying the inspiration for this thread were actually the recent chapters of Bleach. I'm gonna put some spoilers in here, so only read if you are caught up with Bleach:
In the recent Bleach arc, the main villain was on the verge of destroying not only the last remnants of soul society, but also the manga's main character and thus theoretically ending the manga. But instead, Kubo whipped out a MAJOR ass-pull and essentially extended the life of his manga by 200 chapters EASY, if not 400+ more chapters. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he did it, but it was still a crap reason, you have to agree U_U. But what was the primary reason he did this? BECAUSE HE STILL HAS A TON OF NEW MATERIAL TO REVEAL! He not only had the zero squad, which was obvious a few chapters ago was going to be revealed, but he also has the new revelation that Ichigo is likely half Quincy. On top of all that, we still have yet to meet a single Vasto Lorde! And don't go and tell me that the top 10 Espada = VL because they didn't. Just because Toshiro said 10 VL = soul society's destruction does not mean he was implying the Espada were VL, seriously. Oh and did I forget something? Oh ya, WE STILL HAVE YET TO SEE AT LEAST 5 NEW BANKAI NOT COUNTING PEOPLE LIKE KISUKE AND YORUICHI!!! Bottom line is that Kubo still has a thousand things left to reveal, and what does Naruto have? For all intensive purposes, KISHI HAS NOTHING LEFT TO REVEAL....... NOTHING.
For those who didn't read this, the main point was that Bleach seemed like it was on its way out. Kubo set things up in a way that he could have ended it soon, but he didn't, instead he came up with a way to delay things. Even though it was a total ass-pull on his part
, he kept things going and I think we can all thank him for that. My point here is that Kishi does not have this luxury, and even if he felt that he did, his chance to do so has long since past. Over and over, as Tobi was getting more and more utterly pounded on I told myself things like, "Tobi has to retreat, he absolutely has to retreat" and "there is no other way, Tobi has to retreat now or its all over". Every opportunity Kishi had to extend things, he didn't do it.
Now for me, the reason I think he dug himself a hole like this was because of Tobi. He introduced Tobi WAAAAAAYYYY to early, he dove too deep into the Akatsuki too fast, he started revealing things about Madara too fast. I mean Tobi and Madara are the final villians, there is no real way around that. Kishi has put all his chips in the center, and he did it a long time ago. With everything that has happened, Kishi simply has no where else to go but to finish this plot-line.... and where does that plot-line leave? To the end of his manga.
What I'm getting at is as soon as he made it Akatsuki vs. the World......... it was all over. Who's gonna be the villain after this? Oro? Please xd. How bout other Shinobi villages? Nope, they are all allied now and we know everything about all their top shinobi, it simply aint gonna happen. What I'm trying to say he is Kishi absolutely hung himself out to dry ending things like this.
To make things more clear, think about how many story lines Kishi outright WASTED!!!:
1. The 7 ninja swordsman
2. The 10 elemental KG
3. The other shinobi villages
4. Other possible hidden KG (like Kimimaro's)
(Now I'm not going to count things like stories of past Kage's and such, that was actually a line of plot that Kishi created THROUGH the war, so there is nothing I can really say about that.)
What I'm getting at is did things like the 7SM mean nothing to Kishi in the end? In the beginning, the 7SM were like a second Akatsuki, all mysterious and clearly comprised of Top shinobi. We even got the impression at the time THAT THEY WERE ALL STILL ALIVE! But no, Kishi later tells us that only 3 were alive at the start of the series, all the others were dead. I MEAN WHAT A TOTAL WASTE!! Why not increase the life of your manga by 200+ chapters by having the heroes fight the 7SM for 200 chapters then reveal the Akatsuki later? Why not continue to reveal the elemental KG piece by piece instead of revealing OVER HALF OF THEM IN A SINGLE ARC??!! Why not have the Leaf and Sand fight battles with the other villages for 200 chapters and slowly reveal their top shinobi as opposed to revealing all the top shinobi of the remaining 3 villages in essentially 10 short chapters?
Now there's my primary venting, but seriously, how could Kishi let all these possible plot lines go to waste? Even after Sasuke left, he could have tackled these subjects much more in depth. He could have even tackled some of these pre-shippuden. But no, as soon as Tobi and Madara (in theory) were in the picture, Kishi sealed his fate.
Now this may just sound like I'm complaining, but this is largely a way TO DEFEND KISHI AND THE WAY HE DID THE WAR. I mean obviously Kishi led the story in the direction he wanted to, there's no doubts there, BUT HOW ELSE COULD HE HAVE GONE THROUGH WITH THIS IN ANY OTHER WAY?? The only way he could reveal the other 7SM at this point was if he revived them, no way to argue that. The only way he could reveal all the other KG is if he miraculously invented new shinobi to showcase them, no way to argue that either. The only way he was able to showcase all the other villages and what they had to offer was to create the Shinobi alliance to tackle the problem together, also hard to argue.
The bottom line is that the war, as he is conducting it, was essentially the only way he could complete all these story-lines while still keeping within a relatively reasonable arc length. I mean this arc can't go forever, and how long did Madara toy with the Kage? How long did Tobi get his ass beat and kept going? How long did Kishi outright create new, powerful shinobi to showcase? HOW LONG DID WE GO WITHOUT KNOWING WHO TOBI ACTUALLY WAS?? The bottom line I'm getting at is that Kishi actually MILKED this arc for all it was worth, he essentially extended it far more than I could have imagined considering how strongly intertwined his two final villains were involved with it.
I mean by the time Kishi committed to the war, as I've already implied, it was essentially over. He couldn't have really stopped the fighting half-way through, kind of like Kubo just did, and resume it later, not with all the chips falling onto the table like they were. The only other way I could have seen Kishi extending this other than introducing Tobi/ Madara later was to have Tobi go into hiding as soon as Pain/ Sasuke failed. If he simply gave up on the ambition at that time and went into hiding, Kishi might have had ways to extend things. But instead, Kishi dives straight into a war that essentially marks the end of his manga, but he clearly did so because he felt he was ready to start revealing all the secrets of his story. But again, the only way I could have seen a way around this was if Kishi took more time introducing the story-lines regarding Tobi and Madara. He could have spent an extended period of time concentrating on other storylines long before ever revealing Tobi/ Madara.
Despite all the flaws I can see, all in all, I feel that Kishi has essentially done the best job possible when it comes to finishing his manga. Considering everything, most notably the fact that he has had his 2 final villians involved in the story for over 300 chapters, there is really no way to argue that he could have kept the story going for too much longer than this. I feel that he simply had very limited time to reveal secrets unrelated to the Tobi/ Madara story and had to patch them into the war as best as he could. I do feel that he wasted a large number of plot lines that had a lot of potential, but I think he chose this direction over other possible ones because he felt that this was the story he wanted to tell and reveal to the world. One part of me could say I'm quite frustrated with how things have gone, but considering everything, considering how long Tobi has been involved in this, how else could Kishi have really gone with this? I honestly feel that Kishi's problem was rooted way back in the early chapters of revealing Tobi, and not so much the war. TBH, I think the war was more a result of bad planning from early on, not a bad decision in general.
Now to summarize this thread in two sentences, I feel that once Kishi committed to the war, there was really no other way for him to do it and I feel he did many parts well. However, I feel that his planning before that was flawed and he could have much better managed his time when it came developing other story lines as opposed to diving right into his final villains and the final aspects of his story line.
Now if you feel strongly against this or have your own thoughts to share on the matter, do not hesitate to do so. I simply feel that all this bad hype going around, while it has its reasons, may not be as well deserved as we think. I feel that Kishi might simply have gotten too excited and went straight for the jugular to early in this manga. Either way, please do not hesitate to give your feedback on the matter.
Oh and thx for reading xdxd.
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