Hyuga/Byakugan Logic

[jamarcusp17]

I know we've been seeing a lot of posts regarding the Hyuga and Byakugan lately due to the Boruto series, but here's one more. I'm going to clear up what a lot of you can't seem to understand. If I knew how to, I'd post gifs and scans for you, but this is all coming from the series, almost verbatim, no speculation.

It has, with no doubt, been confirmed that the Byakugan is capable of predicting it's opponent's movements during a battle. Although not explicitly stated--as Uchiha fans love to point out--this fact was shown when Neji fought against KN0 Naruto. In this fight, Neji was fully capable of keeping up with Naruto, without a doubt. Not only did the Byakugan allow him to see attacks from behind, but Neji was also able to react and dodge those attacks.

This feat--as Uchiha fans hate to admit--is completely comparable to Sasuke being able to see and react to Naruto's attacks after awakening 3T.

When referring to being able to react to fast attacks, I would say that Neji, if not all capable Hyugas, is definitely able to do this. In the fight against Lee, Sasuke couldn't react to Lee's speed, even though he had the Sharingan. As you all probably realized, Lee did not take off his weights during this fight.

But when it comes to the fight against Gaara, Lee did take off his weights, giving him the speed that none of the other genin had ever seen. Well, obviously except for Neji. When seeing Lee's weightless speed, Neji did not react as if he was surprised by it. (It would be speculation to say that Lee has used his weightless speed against Neji, but it isn't speculation to say that he wasn't fazed by it.) It also isn't speculation that Lee said that he was saving the 8 Gates for Neji, implying that his weightless speed was not enough to overwhelm Neji.

If you watched the episodes and read the manga, I don't have to go on about Neji's feats when it comes to speed and reacting to it, so I'll move on to Hinata.

I read on here that the Hyuga don't have the speed to react like Uchihas do. I'm not sure where they get that from since the Hyuga base the Gentle Fist around speed, leading them to create jutsus like 64 Palms, 128 Palms, and Rotation. But Hinata took it further by creating Protecting Eight Trigrams: 64 Palms. She's used 2 variations of this with speed unlike any other. Of course, many of y'all are gonna say this isn't canon because it's filler, idc.

Now, the Byakugan may not be able to cast Genjutsu or copy abilities--which can be speculated--but it is on par when it comes to insight, even surpassing it on some levels. But, just because the Byakugan itself isn't as strong as the Sharingan, it doesn't mean that the Hyuga are automatically weaker because of it. Every opponent of the Uchiha did not have a Sharingan. In fact, the only Sharingan vs Sharingan we know are Obito vs Kakashi, Itachi vs Sasuke, Danzo vs Sasuke, and that weird civil war between Uchihas. Yet, the strongest villains with the Sharingan have lost to those that didn't even have a dojutsu. This too isn't speculation but fact.

The only sure ways I know for an Uchiha to win against a Hyuga is to go straight to Susano'o before the first punch is thrown (and only a small percent of Uchiha have the Susano'o), or to avoid close combat.

Now, if you know different, let me know.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Uchiha fan should take the L Byakugan Precog gave them with dignity. lol its not like this puts any Hyuga above any Uchiha anyways

 

[Genocide]

I know we've been seeing a lot of posts regarding the Hyuga and Byakugan lately due to the Boruto series, but here's one more. I'm going to clear up what a lot of you can't seem to understand. If I knew how to, I'd post gifs and scans for you, but this is all coming from the series, almost verbatim, no speculation.

It has, with no doubt, been confirmed that the Byakugan is capable of predicting it's opponent's movements during a battle. Although not explicitly stated--as Uchiha fans love to point out--this fact was shown when Neji fought against KN0 Naruto. In this fight, Neji was fully capable of keeping up with Naruto, without a doubt. Not only did the Byakugan allow him to see attacks from behind, but Neji was also able to react and dodge those attacks.

This feat--as Uchiha fans hate to admit--but is completely comparable to Sasuke being able to see and react to Naruto's attacks after awakening 3T.

When referring to being able to react to fast attacks, I would say that Neji, if not all capable Hyugas, is definitely able to do this. In the fight against Lee, Sasuke couldn't react to Lee's speed, even though he had the Sharingan. As you all probably realized, Lee did not take off his weights during this fight.

But when it comes to the fight against Gaara, Lee did take off his weights, giving him the speed that none of the other genin had ever seen. Well, obviously except for Neji. When seeing Lee's weightless speed, Neji did not react as if he was surprised by it. (It would be speculation to say that Lee has used his weightless speed against Neji, but it isn't speculation to say that he wasn't fazed by it.) It also isn't speculation that Lee said that he was saving the 8 Gates for Neji, implying that his weightless speed was not enough to overwhelm Neji.

If you watched the episodes and read the manga, I don't have to go on about Neji's feats when it comes to speed and reacting to it, so I'll move on to Hinata.

I read on here that the Hyuga don't have the speed to react like Uchihas do. I'm not sure where they get that from since the Hyuga base the Gentle Fist around speed, leading them to create jutsus like 64 Palms, 128 Palms, and Rotation. But Hinata took it further by creating Protecting Eight Trigrams: 64 Palms. She's used 2 variations of this with speed unlike any other. Of course, many of y'all are gonna say this isn't canon because it's filler, idc.

Now, the Byakugan may not be able to cast Genjutsu or copy abilities--which can be speculated--but it is on par when it comes to insight, even surpassing it on some levels. But, just because the Byakugan itself isn't as strong as the Sharingan, it doesn't mean that the Hyuga are automatically weaker because of it. Every opponent of the Uchiha did not have a Sharingan. In fact, the only Sharingan vs Sharingan we know are Obito vs Kakashi, Itachi vs Sasuke, Danzo vs Sasuke, and that weird civil war between Uchihas. Yet, the strongest villains with the Sharingan have lost to those that didn't even have a dojutsu. This too isn't speculation but fact.

The only sure ways I know for an Uchiha to win against a Hyuga is to go straight to Susano'o before the first punch is thrown (and only a small percent of Uchiha have the Susano'o), or to avoid close combat.

Now, if you know different, let me know.

to post scans you have to click

You must be registered for see images

on

You must be registered for see images

and make sure you have .gif or whatever at the end so its the source image not just the webpage

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Sasuke with his 2T couldnt keep in track with Naruto Kn0 and Lee base speed yet Neji did it with ease. That means 3t are equal as the Byakugan in term of following high speed movement. The fact that Lee intend to go on gate to beat Neji only implies that Neji Byakugan could only react arguably up to 5th gate. Ofc if lee goes 5th gate, Neji won't able to out maneuver him so his only option is to be in defensive position.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Great thread.

 

[Styles]

Sasuke with his 2T couldnt keep in track with Naruto Kn0 and Lee base speed yet Neji did it with ease. That means 3t are equal as the Byakugan in term of following high speed movement. The fact that Lee intend to go on gate to beat Neji only implies that Neji Byakugan could only react arguably up to 5th gate. Ofc if lee goes 5th gate, Neji won't able to out maneuver him so his only option is to be in defensive position.

Iirc Sasuke with 2 tomoe kept track of Lee. His body was just to slow to react. In Neji's case he hardly kept up with KN0 Naruto i doubt he could keep up with Lee tbh.
Regarding Sasuke at VOTE he actually read KN0 movements once but the hits was too heavy then got over powered.

 

[jamarcusp17]

to post scans you have to click

You must be registered for see images

on

You must be registered for see images

and make sure you have .gif or whatever at the end so its the source image not just the webpage

Thank you! I'm not really adept when it comes to the details of this website, even though I've been here for the past 5 years.

 

[jamarcusp17]

Iirc Sasuke with 2 tomoe kept track of Lee. His body was just to slow to react. In Neji's case he hardly kept up with KN0 Naruto i doubt he could keep up with Lee tbh.
Regarding Sasuke at VOTE he actually read KN0 movements once but the hits was too heavy then got over powered.

You're right; Sasuke was keeping track of their movements, reading the movements. So the difference is when the 3T allows its user to predict or see what move the opponent will make next. If you can see what happens before it happens, it doesn't matter if you're quick. You just need to react before it happens--being quick just improves your chances of being successful. Now, it was just confirmed that the Byakugan can predict movements.

So that's that.

 

[Styles]

You're right; Sasuke was keeping track of their movements, reading the movements. So the difference is when the 3T allows its user to predict or see what move the opponent will make next. If you can see what happens before it happens, it doesn't matter if you're quick. You just need to react before it happens--being quick just improves your chances of being successful. Now, it was just confirmed that the Byakugan can predict movements.

So that's that.

Byakugan can't predict movements by muscle movements like Sharingan tho. They do it due to 360 vision but even then it's not all that as Neji was having a hard time following Naruto.

 

[jamarcusp17]

Byakugan can't predict movements by muscle movements like Sharingan tho. They do it due to 360 vision but even then it's not all that as Neji was having a hard time following Naruto.

Oh, that's new to me. So tell me, how does it predict movements? Of course, you must know because I don't think it was stated in the series how the Byakugan predicts movement, let alone how it doesn't.

So how?

 

[Joon]

Oh, that's new to me. So tell me, how does it predict movements? Of course, you must know because I don't think it was stated in the series how the Byakugan predicts movement, let alone how it doesn't.

So how?

I agree with @Styles and here is your proof:

You must be registered for see images

Here is another statement:

You must be registered for see images

 

[Made in Heaven]

Iirc Sasuke with 2 tomoe kept track of Lee. His body was just to slow to react. In Neji's case he hardly kept up with KN0 Naruto i doubt he could keep up with Lee tbh.
Regarding Sasuke at VOTE he actually read KN0 movements once but the hits was too heavy then got over powered.

No, Neji never lost track of Naruto. Like Sasuke with Lee, it was only a matter of his body being to slow to react.

Byakugan can't predict movements by muscle movements like Sharingan tho.

1. Shikadai already said it can see attack before they happen. 2. I don't recall it ever being said Sharingan reads muscle movements for precognition, it was only said to be Chakra sight, which Byakugan is superior in.

They do it due to 360 vision

Again, no evidence for this. Tenten says Byakugan can anticipate attacks, and Shikadai says Byakugan can tell movements before they happen.

What 1010 said is more in line w/ 2T

What shikdai said is more in line w/ 3T

 

[Rikudo no Sasuke]

sharingan solos

hyuga/byakugan = trash

#FACT

 

[To Whatever]

TL;DR

 

[KidGamer65]

Byakugan being able to predict attacks doesn't put it on par w/ the Sharingan's capability of doing so. Not now and not until the authors decide that it is. Sasuke's EMS is blatantly stated to allow him to read moves better than his previous Sharingan or any other person who's Sharingan doesn't have the straight comma Madara mentioned. These abilities are not all created equal. This isn't Uchiha fans not wanting to admit that they are equal, this is people who argue on the other side pushing something that isn't even remotely true with limited to no evidence for that being the case.

1. Straight Comma Mangekyo
2. Matured Sharingan
3. Byakugan

That's how it goes when it comes to the capability of predicting movements. Neji being fast isn't evidence that Byakugan=Sharingan in this regard, it's evidence that Neji is fast. :lol Then we have the simple fact that the Byakugan has been in the series for around 650-680 chapters and not once was it's ability to anticipate attacks ever highlighted or held to the same level as the Sharingan's. So we can all stop arguing this now.

 

[jamarcusp17]

Byakugan being able to predict attacks doesn't put it on par w/ the Sharingan's capability of doing so. Not now and not until the authors decide that it is. Sasuke's EMS is blatantly stated to allow him to read moves better than his previous Sharingan or any other person who's Sharingan doesn't have the straight comma Madara mentioned. These abilities are not all created equal. This isn't Uchiha fans not wanting to admit that they are equal, this is people who argue on the other side pushing something that isn't even remotely true with limited to no evidence for that being the case.

1. Straight Comma Mangekyo
2. Matured Sharingan
3. Byakugan

That's how it goes when it comes to the capability of predicting movements. Neji being fast isn't evidence that Byakugan=Sharingan in this regard, it's evidence that Neji is fast. :lol Then we have the simple fact that the Byakugan has been in the series for around 650-680 chapters and not once was it's ability to anticipate attacks ever highlighted or held to the same level as the Sharingan's. So we can all stop arguing this now.

Okay, so it is clear that when you read, you infer a lot of things, including the manga. But let's say that you are correct that the EMS is better at predicting than 3T--I'll take your word for it because I never saw that. Unless you can provide evidence that the 3T is better at predicting than the Byakugan is, what you say is just a fallacy. So, in your list, it should be:

1. Straight Comma Mangekyo
2. Matured Sharingan/Byakugan

And you clearly misread what I said, because I didn't say that Neji's speed equals the Sharingan, nor did I imply that it was. It seems that you are one of the people who don't want to admit it, because it was blatantly stated IN THE MANGA that the Byakugan surpasses the Sharingan in terms of insight. This was said by someone who mastered the 3T Sharingan.

And out of all 700 chapters of Naruto, it was never mentioned how Hashirama died. But it was clear that he did die since he was brought back twice. It may not have been mentioned that the Byakugan is on the same level of predicting movements as the Sharingan, but it is clear that it is since the 3T made it capable of doing what the 13-year-old Hyuga was capable of doing.

So that's that.

 

[KidGamer65]

Okay, so it is clear that when you read, you infer a lot of things, including the manga. But let's say that you are correct that the EMS is better at predicting than 3T--I'll take your word for it because I never saw that. Unless you can provide evidence that the 3T is better at predicting than the Byakugan is, what you say is just a fallacy. So, in your list, it should be:

1. Straight Comma Mangekyo
2. Matured Sharingan/Byakugan

And you clearly misread what I said, because I didn't say that Neji's speed equals the Sharingan, nor did I imply that it was. It seems that you are one of the people who don't want to admit it, because it was blatantly stated IN THE MANGA that the Byakugan surpasses the Sharingan in terms of insight. This was said by someone who mastered the 3T Sharingan.

And out of all 700 chapters of Naruto, it was never mentioned how Hashirama died. But it was clear that he did die since he was brought back twice. It may not have been mentioned that the Byakugan is on the same level of predicting movements as the Sharingan, but it is clear that it is since the 3T made it capable of doing what the 13-year-old Hyuga was capable of doing.

So that's that.

That doesn't make sense nor is that how you argue. Byakugan isn't automatically equal just because nothing says it isn't. That right there is the real fallacy. Byakugan's feats are inferior to Sharingan's in this department as a whole. Fact or not? Is there anything that puts Byakugan on the level of the Sharingan? No, so how are you coming to the conclusion that Sharingan=Byakugan in precognition? You can't. Your claims are based on nothing.

I never said that you made any claims on Neji's speed being equal to the Sharingan. The only person who isn't properly reading and comprehending anything being said here is you and I'm not surprised considering you are arguing using logical fallacies in place of real evidence. I said stop using Neji's speed feats as evidence that the Byakugan's precognition=Sharingan's when Neji's speed feats are due to his natural speed+whatever boost Byakugan gives him.

Yes, the Byakugan surpasses Sharingan in insight because it can see more than the Sharingan can. That is what insight is. That's irrelevant to this conversion of precognition.

And this is more fallacious logic. These two examples literally have nothing to do with each other. The bold is nonsense. Sharingan=Byakugan in precognition because Sasuke and Neji were both capable of reacting to Naruto? Lmao go read the Manga over again, correctly this time.

1. The Naruto at VoTE is stronger than the Naruto at the Chuunin Exams. So no, these feats are not equal.
2. Sasuke was dominating Naruto in close combat and evading each and every one of his moves. Neji didn't do anything of the sort against Naruto. Neji was able to follow his speed and keep up, but he wasn't dominating him in that field.

So how does this mean Sharingan=Byakugan when the two feats you are using to prove this claim are completely different? :lol You people need to stop trying to give Sharingan's abilities and strength to the Byakugan without just cause. "Oh, both Neji and Sasuke can react to Naruto so their Dojutsu must be equal in that regard" is horrid logic.

 

[jamarcusp17]

That doesn't make sense nor is that how you argue. Byakugan isn't automatically equal just because nothing says it isn't. That right there is the real fallacy. Byakugan's feats are inferior to Sharingan's in this department as a whole. Fact or not? Is there anything that puts Byakugan on the level of the Sharingan? No, so how are you coming to the conclusion that Sharingan=Byakugan in precognition? You can't. Your claims are based on nothing.

I never said that you made any claims on Neji's speed being equal to the Sharingan. The only person who isn't properly reading and comprehending anything being said here is you and I'm not surprised considering you are arguing using logical fallacies in place of real evidence. I said stop using Neji's speed feats as evidence that the Byakugan's precognition=Sharingan's when Neji's speed feats are due to his natural speed+whatever boost Byakugan gives him.

Yes, the Byakugan surpasses Sharingan in insight because it can see more than the Sharingan can. That is what insight is. That's irrelevant to this conversion of precognition.

And this is more fallacious logic. These two examples literally have nothing to do with each other. The bold is nonsense. Sharingan=Byakugan in precognition because Sasuke and Neji were both capable of reacting to Naruto? Lmao go read the Manga over again, correctly this time.

1. The Naruto at VoTE is stronger than the Naruto at the Chuunin Exams. So no, these feats are not equal.
2. Sasuke was dominating Naruto in close combat and evading each and every one of his moves. Neji didn't do anything of the sort against Naruto. Neji was able to follow his speed and keep up, but he wasn't dominating him in that field.

So how does this mean Sharingan=Byakugan when the two feats you are using to prove this claim are completely different? :lol You people need to stop trying to give Sharingan's abilities and strength to the Byakugan without just cause. "Oh, both Neji and Sasuke can react to Naruto so their Dojutsu must be equal in that regard" is horrid logic.

Sir, ma'am, or kid, what you're talking about is irrelevant because you don't have scans or facts to back it up. You say that Naruto was stronger in VoTE than the Chunin Exams. But you can't even say that is a fact because it isn't stated in the manga. KN0 Naruto is still KN0 Naruto. The only difference in the two is that the Chunin Exams Naruto didn't have the Rasengan nor did he have an open arena. They both still threw punches, ninja tools and clones. The difference in the opponents was that Sasuke was getting his ass kicked before he awakened the 3T, unlike Neji.

And you can't say what the author meant when saying "insight" because it wasn't stated. If you want to be literal, insight doesn't mean being able to see through things. But, when used in the series, the author clearly meant it in general since he didn't give specifics.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

I stopped at the beginning. At the chunnin fight neji could track kn0 and react which is a feat in itself but sasukes 3t literally let him see what kn0 was going to do before he did it.... it's even shown differently, I don't think it's really comparable

 

[jamarcusp17]

I stopped at the beginning. At the chunnin fight neji could track kn0 and react which is a feat in itself but sasukes 3t literally let him see what kn0 was going to do before he did it.... it's even shown differently, I don't think it's really comparable

I can agree that the way it's done may be differently. But what does it matter if Ohnoki's Light Weight Jutsu allows him to fly when Naruto can fly without it. The two differences gets the same job done, allowing the user to fly.