It didn't move to another clan, the Uzumaki are a lesser Senju branch. Nagato an Uzumaki is called a Senju descendant in the manga. The Uzumaki have zero connection to Hamura. As for cloaks, weapons etc, they're an Uchiha power. They're a Susanoo thing, Uchiha make weapons out fo their chakra, which is a yin power.
It never once said that the Uzumaki was part of the Senju clan.
Your claim of chakra cloaks, weapons, etc. as an Uchiha power is not congruent neither.
One, Susanoo is a Mangekyu tech, not all Uchihas have them.
Two, that is a YANG power.
Example: Uzuamki Clan is a Yang family. Toneri is a Yang member of Hamura's branch family. Kinshiki is a Yang Otsutsuki.
None of these people are Yin affinity.
That's your take on it. Not Kishi's and it is bare bones at that.
Claiming that it is a Susanoo thing means that Naruto effectively summons a Susanoo covered Kurama whenever Kurama comes out with chakra cloak (because all other jins can bring out their bijuus as their normal selves except for Naruto and Minato with Kurama).
Saying that the Uzumaki also have no connection to Hamura is nonsense. If you are a part of Kaguya's Clan, you have somewhat of a relation to those 2 clans deriving from Hagoromo and Hamura.
Also The Last movie especially states these things:
1) What would happen if the Yang were the one that tried to go Madara
2) What are the abilities of the Yang side
3) Who are involved
Toneri exhibits all abilities that Naruto has.
Urashiki and Kinshiki (both Yang affinity) have chakra arsenal
"Senju and Uzuamki are distant cousins"
Uchiha and Senjus are cousins.
The Hyugas and Uzuamaki (branch Hamura) are distant cousins of the Uchiha and Senjus.
These are congruent.
The panel of Kaguya holding up Sasuke and Naruto with an overlay of Hagoromo and Hamura is not my take.
It is legit paneled by Kish, not me.
IDK how you would deny that and say that that is my take on it.
It never once said that the Uzumaki was part of the Senju clan.
Your claim of chakra cloaks, weapons, etc. as an Uchiha power is not congruent neither.
Example: Uzuamki Clan is a Yang family. Toneri is a Yang member of Hamura's branch family. Kinshiki is a Yang Otsutsuki.
None of these people are Yin affinity.
Uzumaki are a yang family, yes.
Uzumaki do not manifest chakra cloaks or weapons yes.
Two known Uzumaki who manifest chakra chains, and both possess yin release. In fact one (Kushina) solely possesses Yin nature according to the databooks. No yang members demonstrate chakra chains so they're a yin power, if we want to extrapolate
Toneri was never referred to as a yang member, and so far the only explained dojutsu takes it's roots in Yin energy. Therefore, there's nothing to suggest otherwise for him either.
Kinshiki was never referred to as yang user either.
If you want to get into the nitty gritty of it and go back to the original manga. Then Yin is what gives form (shape) to chakra that alone would dismiss claims of it being a yang power.
Yang is what gives durability, enhances a user physically, allows the Akamichi clan to use their jutsu. Hashirama to heal etc.
That's your take on it. Not Kishi's and it is bare bones at that.
No mine is the take grounded in canon, not fanfiction.
Claiming that it is a Susanoo thing means that Naruto effectively summons a Susanoo covered Kurama whenever Kurama comes out with chakra cloak (because all other jins can bring out their bijuus as their normal selves except for Naruto and Minato with Kurama).
This is becoming worse and worse. Naruto stole Kurama's chakra and the seal allows him to use cloaks. If he had the same seal as the others or if Kurama interfered (his will was invivled), then Naruto would have the standard transformation, like all Bijuu he used to go through in V1. Also Naruto has yang Kurama, and goes through this. While Minayo has Yin Kurama and goes through the same transformation. It is clear the transformation isn't because of yin, rather how the fuinn jutsu used is designed that allows this transformation.
Saying that the Uzumaki also have no connection to Hamura is nonsense. If you are a part of Kaguya's Clan, you have somewhat of a relation to those 2 clans deriving from Hagoromo and Hamura.
They don't, the only clan ever claimed to have any connection to Hamura's clan is the Uchiha clan, in part 1. And Sasuke to Hamura in part 2 with the Yin seal.
Also The Last movie especially states these things:
1) What would happen if the Yang were the one that tried to go Madara
2) What are the abilities of the Yang side
3) Who are involved
Toneri exhibits all abilities that Naruto has.
Urashiki and Kinshiki (both Yang affinity) have chakra arsenal
"Senju and Uzuamki are distant cousins"
Uchiha and Senjus are cousins.
The Hyugas and Uzuamaki (branch Hamura) are distant cousins of the Uchiha and Senjus.
No, the last did no such thing. Toneri exhibits powers of RSM, RSM is both with a cloak and without. It's born of rokudo chakra/senjutsu, not yang release. You're head canon about Ura and Kin has zero grounding in canon.
Uchiha and Senju are distant cousins, because one descends and branches off from the other. The Uzumaki from Uzumaki Senju as is confir.ed in the canon. And the proof is Nagato, an Uzumaki is referred to as a Senju descendant. To refer to them as Hamura branch is pure fantasy.
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While the Uchiha and Senju are related they're never referred to as distance cousins in the entire series. The reason is because they have a different progenitor (Uchih have Indra and the Senju have Asura), while the Uzumaki are referred to as distant cousins of the Senju meaning they have common ancestor (Asura).
The panel of Kaguya holding up Sasuke and Naruto with an overlay of Hagoromo and Hamura is not my take.
It is legit paneled by Kish, not me.
IDK how you would deny that and say that that is my take on it.
You're take is the take on them being incarnates of Hamura and Hogaromo. When they're clearly called incarnates of Indra and Asura by Hogaromo himself. As well as Kaguya recognising them as such.
False. There was an entire war about the eyes due to the Izanagi and Izanami. So stop spewing lies. It is said that a Mangyeku is harder to manifest and people just waged war for the Izanagi and Izanami because they are godlike and consistent.
Boruto movie and The Last movie say otherwise. Those are canon material BTW. Just not from manga so don't even try to hide behind that shit. "OOOO KISHI DIDN'T MAKE IT IN MANGA"
Uzumaki are a yang family, yes.
Uzumaki do not manifest chakra cloaks or weapons yes.
Two known Uzumaki who manifest chakra chains, and both possess yin release. In fact one (Kushina) solely possesses Yin nature according to the databooks. No yang members demonstrate chakra chains so they're a yin power, if we want to extrapolate
Toneri was never referred to as a yang member, and so far the only explained dojutsu takes it's roots in Yin energy. Therefore, there's nothing to suggest otherwise for him either.
Kinshiki was never referred to as yang user either.
If you want to get into the nitty gritty of it and go back to the original manga. Then Yin is what gives form (shape) to chakra that alone would dismiss claims of it being a yang power.
Yang is what gives durability, enhances a user physically, allows the Akamichi clan to use their jutsu. Hashirama to heal etc.
Not speculation, but relation and correlation.
Toneri legit has the same powers as Naruto. (No, it is not from Tenseigan because he used them before he could even use Hanabi's eyes).
Uzumaki can manifest chakra chains (Mito and Kushina) and through Naruto and Minato (he used Uzumaki techs) chakra cloak
Toneri came from the branch family (mainly those are the Yang). He had to steal Hanabi's eyes meaning he doesn't have doujutsu (Yang). He has chakra mode (those are Yang).
IDK why you're nitpicking here.
Yes Yin is what chakra typically give shape to it. But this is no longer Part 1 and we have move on to an entirely different territory.
Yang is something that is on the physical realm, chakra or otherwise. (Meaning not imaginary, the Susanoo is imaginary while chakra cloak is just enveloping something existing in chakra).
Kinshiki is Yang. Because he neither has the Rinnegan nor did he have any doujutsu techs. He is also partnered with Momoshiki, someone that is established as Yin. You wouldn't argue about Momoshiki so why doubt Kinshiki is Yang?
This is becoming worse and worse. Naruto stole Kurama's chakra and the seal allows him to use cloaks. If he had the same seal as the others or if Kurama interfered (his will was invivled), then Naruto would have the standard transformation, like all Bijuu he used to go through in V1. Also Naruto has yang Kurama, and goes through this. While Minayo has Yin Kurama and goes through the same transformation. It is clear the transformation isn't because of yin, rather how the fuinn jutsu used is designed that allows this transformation.
I've already stated that the seal is an Uzumaki seal. It is a Yang ability. The splitting of Kurama means nothing especially at the end of the Alliance battle since he is at full strength once more. Yet he is still chakra cloaked because of the seal.
AGAIN, UZUMAKI TECH SEAL. UZUMAKI HAS YANG AFFINITY.
Denying that means to deny Naruto as a Yang affinity guy.
They don't, the only clan ever claimed to have any connection to Hamura's clan is the Uchiha clan, in part 1. And Sasuke to Hamura in part 2 with the Yin seal.
Uchiha and Senju are cousins. If you claim that the Uchiha clan is connected to the Hamura's clan (main: "Hyuga", branch: "Uzumaki"), then by extension, the Senju is connected, no?
Please at least tell me that you follow that logic.
If you cannot, you won't be able to even get through the symbolism.
Hamura (Yang) has the Yin seal. Hagoromo (Yin) has the Yang seal.
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Hagoromo (Yin because he has the Rinnegan) carries the Yang seal because he symbolizes the 4th one "Good that is in the bad"
Hamura (Yang because he has no doujutsu) carries the Yin seal because he is the symbol of the 3rd one "bad that is in the good"
Uchiha and Senju are distant cousins, because one descends and branches off from the other. The Uzumaki from Uzumaki Senju as is confir.ed in the canon. And the proof is Nagato, an Uzumaki is referred to as a Senju descendant. To refer to them as Hamura branch is pure fantasy.
You say yours is grounded yet you keep putting Nagato, a person, to represent an entire clan. Yours is pure fantasy. Where in that did it say that the Uzumakis are Senju descendants??
No, the last did no such thing. Toneri exhibits powers of RSM, RSM is both with a cloak and without. It's born of rokudo chakra/senjutsu, not yang release. You're head canon about Ura and Kin has zero grounding in canon.
No, the last did no such thing. Toneri exhibits powers of RSM, RSM is both with a cloak and without. It's born of rokudo chakra/senjutsu, not yang release. You're head canon about Ura and Kin has zero grounding in canon.
While the Uchiha and Senju are related they're never referred to as distance cousins in the entire series. The reason is because they have a different progenitor (Uchih have Indra and the Senju have Asura), while the Uzumaki are referred to as distant cousins of the Senju meaning they have common ancestor (Asura).
You're take is the take on them being incarnates of Hamura and Hogaromo. When they're clearly called incarnates of Indra and Asura by Hogaromo himself. As well as Kaguya recognising them as such.
Of course they are both. Pre-seal, they are the incarnations of both Indra and Asura. I am not denying that. But after that, they extended beyond that and were on Hagoromo and Hamura-ish level.
Kaguya recognize this but considering that they have borrowed powers, she was unsure.
One thing for certain is that Naruto and Sasuke were at one point spiritual successor of Hamura and Hagoromo.
"Senju relatives" Hyugas are Senju relatives.
Also Nagato himself is being referred to as a Senju descendant. Not the entire clan.
The entire clan is claimed to be a "distant cousin"
False. There was an entire war about the eyes due to the Izanagi and Izanami. So stop spewing lies. It is said that a Mangyeku is harder to manifest and people just waged war for the Izanagi and Izanami because they are godlike and consistent.
Boruto movie and The Last movie say otherwise. Those are canon material BTW. Just not from manga so don't even try to hide behind that shit. "OOOO KISHI DIDN'T MAKE IT IN MANGA"
Not speculation, but relation and correlation.
Toneri legit has the same powers as Naruto. (No, it is not from Tenseigan because he used them before he could even use Hanabi's eyes).
Uzumaki can manifest chakra chains (Mito and Kushina) and through Naruto and Minato (he used Uzumaki techs) chakra cloak
Toneri came from the branch family (mainly those are the Yang). He had to steal Hanabi's eyes meaning he doesn't have doujutsu (Yang). He has chakra mode (those are Yang).
IDK why you're nitpicking here.
Yes Yin is what chakra typically give shape to it. But this is no longer Part 1 and we have move on to an entirely different territory.
Yang is something that is on the physical realm, chakra or otherwise. (Meaning not imaginary, the Susanoo is imaginary while chakra cloak is just enveloping something existing in chakra).
Kinshiki is Yang. Because he neither has the Rinnegan nor did he have any doujutsu techs. He is also partnered with Momoshiki, someone that is established as Yin. You wouldn't argue about Momoshiki so why doubt Kinshiki is Yang?
I see a lot of nitpicking. Yours is either outdated or pure dismissal of something that is not inline with your beliefs.
"GOUNDED in canon"
I've already stated that the seal is an Uzumaki seal. It is a Yang ability. The splitting of Kurama means nothing especially at the end of the Alliance battle since he is at full strength once more. Yet he is still chakra cloaked because of the seal.
AGAIN, UZUMAKI TECH SEAL. UZUMAKI HAS YANG AFFINITY.
Denying that means to deny Naruto as a Yang affinity guy.
You... you cannot be serious?
How do you function like this.
Uchiha and Senju are cousins. If you claim that the Uchiha clan is connected to the Hamura's clan (main: "Hyuga", branch: "Uzumaki"), then by extension, the Senju is connected, no?
Please at least tell me that you follow that logic.
If you cannot, you won't be able to even get through the symbolism.
Hamura (Yang) has the Yin seal. Hagoromo (Yin) has the Yang seal.
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Hagoromo (Yin because he has the Rinnegan) carries the Yang seal because he symbolizes the 4th one "Good that is in the bad"
Hamura (Yang because he has no doujutsu) carries the Yin seal because he is the symbol of the 3rd one "bad that is in the good"
You say yours is grounded yet you keep putting Nagato, a person, to represent an entire clan. Yours is pure fantasy. Where in that did it say that the Uzumakis are Senju descendants??
GIVE PROOF!
Nope. He already has those chakra mode when he picked up Hinata. That is pre-Byakugan implants. So no RSM.
As for Urashiki, sure he was dropped from the movie so I will give you that but Kinshiki is still in the movie.
"zero grounding in canon" the movies are canon. So you're obviously nitpicking.
That's a nitpick and you know it. "distant cousin" is applicable for Hyugas and Toneri's family.
Uchihas and Senju are distant cousins as well.
Just depends on who and which generation. Since all of them have a common ancestry: Kaguya.
The only thing you got going on for you is "Nagato is a Senju descendant"
Of course they are both. Pre-seal, they are the incarnations of both Indra and Asura. I am not denying that. But after that, they extended beyond that and were on Hagoromo and Hamura-ish level.
Kaguya recognize this but considering that they have borrowed powers, she was unsure.
One thing for certain is that Naruto and Sasuke were at one point spiritual successor of Hamura and Hagoromo.
oh.. yeah I disagree that they should be wearing adult-looking clothes.
But is that not Kishi's design for her and Ikemoto just draws it or did he do a redesign?
The Hyuga aren't relatives like the Uzumaki, nor are the Uchiha whichbis why they aren't referred to as such. They're not called Otstuski relatives where the connection starts, theyre called actual Senju relatives a name that came down later after Asura. Therefore their common relation is at that point.
Nope the clan are related to the senju through common blood, which is why Nagato is reffered to as of Senju blood. Yet we know he is an Uzumaki as Kabuto confirms.
False. There was an entire war about the eyes due to the Izanagi and Izanami. So stop spewing lies. It is said that a Mangyeku is harder to manifest and people just waged war for the Izanagi and Izanami because they are godlike and consistent.
Rubbish, the mangekyou isn't a rare power, all Uchiha have potential fornit, it's secrets exist on the stone tablet. The EMS is the rare power, which Itachi explained. Even then it's common quality is weapons manifestation via Susanoo and genjutsu, which still shits on your claim.
Boruto movie and The Last movie say otherwise. Those are canon material BTW. Just not from manga so don't even try to hide behind that shit. "OOOO KISHI DIDN'T MAKE IT IN MANGA"
They said no such thing, and Kishi making the movie is suspect at best. Kid Naruto knew shadow clones, which we know is BS, because Kishi wouldn't make such a novice mistake. And yes the manga is the only true canon. However, no such thing (yang BS) exists in the fillerish movies or databooks.
Not speculation, but relation and correlation.
Toneri legit has the same powers as Naruto. (No, it is not from Tenseigan because he used them before he could even use Hanabi's eyes).
He had the Tenseigan vessel so the claim he didn't have access to the power of the Tenseigan is head canon. Also, Naruto's power is RSM which is six paths senjutsu, not yang power.
Uzumaki can manifest chakra chains (Mito and Kushina) and through Naruto and Minato (he used Uzumaki techs) chakra cloak
You don't have an argument here, Kushina and Karin manifest chains and both are yin users. Kushina doesn't even have yang release, so we know it's a yin power, and not a yang power.
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Wanna try again?
Cloaks are from the sealing method and we know Minato had yin Kurama sealed in him, so you don't have an argument here either. Wanna try again?
Toneri came from the branch family (mainly those are the Yang). He had to steal Hanabi's eyes meaning he doesn't have doujutsu (Yang). He has chakra mode (those are Yang).
No, he gave his eyes along with everybody else for the vessel. You have yet to provide proof cloaks are a yang thing, considering it's never been referred to as such. Wanna show some proof?
Yes Yin is what chakra typically give shape to it. But this is no longer Part 1 and we have move on to an entirely different territory.
Yang is something that is on the physical realm, chakra or otherwise. (Meaning not imaginary, the Susanoo is imaginary while chakra cloak is just enveloping something existing in chakra).
Yes, giving form from nothingness was mentioned in part two. It is part of rokudo power. When form is gicen out of nothingness we get Genjutsu in pure form and Susanoo a chakra construct in the other form, it isn't in the mind it is visible, solid and has tangible attacks. And the ability to form weapons to use for combat.
Yang doesn't do that, it never has. When it is added we have the Akamichi Jutsu, healing of Hashirama, durabilty etc.
And when yin and yang are used together, Yang gices life and creates tailed beasts, not cloaks.
Kinshiki is Yang. Because he neither has the Rinnegan nor did he have any doujutsu techs. He is also partnered with Momoshiki, someone that is established as Yin. You wouldn't argue about Momoshiki so why doubt Kinshiki is Yang?
Head canon on both parts. You had better show some scans or databook entries confirming they are yin and yang or we'll know your just trolling. Also last time I checked Kinshiki had the Byakugan and showed a weapons skill, a yin power similar to the Uchiha power. Nice try though.
I see a lot of nitpicking. Yours is either outdated or pure dismissal of something that is not inline with your beliefs.
You call speaking the truth nitpicking, sorry to burst yoyr bubble bit facts don't care for head canon
I've already stated that the seal is an Uzumaki seal. It is a Yang ability. The splitting of Kurama means nothing especially at the end of the Alliance battle since he is at full strength once more. Yet he is still chakra cloaked because of the seal.
You've stated something, now where's the proof that Uzumaki sealing jutsu are yang based?
The splitting of Kurama is important, because it was divided into yin half and yang half, yet both allowed a cloaked form and therefore to claim it's a yang power is a joke. It was a sealing style power, and the manifestation of constructs is a yin power so..
AGAIN, UZUMAKI TECH SEAL. UZUMAKI HAS YANG AFFINITY.
Manga scans, Kushina has fuinn jutsu, yet doesn't have yang release. She has only the yin affinty, so should I make claims like you that fuinn jutsu are a yin power? Uchiha have transcript seal, which seals yin techs into eyes, and a sealing jutsu which protects tgeir shrine, does that mean fuinn jutsu are yin powers? At least if I make the claim, I have canon supporting me, what do you have to counter that?
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Denying that means to deny Naruto as a Yang affinity guy.
Nope, Naruto having Yang affinty has no relation to this. If anything he can't use any fuinn jutsu of his own power, so that could be used to argue by people that fuinn jutsu are a yin power.
You... you cannot be serious?
How do you function like this.
Uchiha and Senju are cousins. If you claim that the Uchiha clan is connected to the Hamura's clan (main: "Hyuga", branch: "Uzumaki"), then by extension, the Senju is connected, no?
Please at least tell me that you follow that logic.
You clearly missed the point, I was shitting on the whole notion of your second rate argument for Uzumaki being Hamura descendants, by showing only the Uchiha have been compared to the Hyuga, and one to even Hamura, yet we know they're not related. And for you to create a fanfic relationship between the Uzumaki and Hamura is a bad joke.
If you cannot, you won't be able to even get through the symbolism.
Hamura (Yang) has the Yin seal. Hagoromo (Yin) has the Yang seal.
Sure lets pretend like Hamura doesn't have the Byakugan or Tenseigan. And then create a fanfic symbolism of him being yang.
You say yours is grounded yet you keep putting Nagato, a person, to represent an entire clan. Yours is pure fantasy. Where in that did it say that the Uzumakis are Senju descendants??
I don't remember him using them, but he did have the Tenseigan orb so that fanfic has been negged. And the fact you don't even know that RSM isn't a dojutsu shows you don't know what your talking about.
As for Urashiki, sure he was dropped from the movie so I will give you that but Kinshiki is still in the movie.
"zero grounding in canon" the movies are canon. So you're obviously nitpicking.
No it's not a nitpick it's a canon manga fact. They (Uzumaki and Senju) are cousins because they have a common ancestor. If it went further back than their ancestor, then the others would've been mentioned as cousins also. Therefore, the buck stops at Asura.
Just depends on who and which generation. Since all of them have a common ancestry: Kaguya.
Precisely, the fact those two are referred to as cousins/relatives etc, shows tgeir relationship is further down the food chain post Asura their ancestor. The one who awakened bodily power (wait isn't that yang release),
The only thing you got going on for you is "Nagato is a Senju descendant"
Nope, the only thing I have going for me is the manga. And Nagato being an Uzumaki being a Senju descendant shits on the notion of Uzumaki being anothing else. On the other hand you have nothing going for you, as I've yet to see a single fact backing you up.
Of course they are both. Pre-seal, they are the incarnations of both Indra and Asura. I am not denying that. But after that, they extended beyond that and were on Hagoromo and Hamura-ish level.
The Hyuga aren't relatives like the Uzumaki, nor are the Uchiha whichbis why they aren't referred to as such. They're not called Otstuski relatives where the connection starts, theyre called actual Senju relatives a name that came down later after Asura. Therefore their common relation is at that point.
Nope the clan are related to the senju through common blood, which is why Nagato is reffered to as of Senju blood. Yet we know he is an Uzumaki as Kabuto confirms.
Your claim is that because Nagato was confirmed Senju descendant, the Uzumaki clan is under the Senju bloodline.
IDK what you mean by this.
Nagato is Uzumaki with Senju ties.
Nagato = BOTH Uzumaki and Senju
Uzumaki =/= Senju.
If I am reaching with my theory of the Uzumaki belonging to Hamura's bloodline, you are too with your Uzumaki is Senju.
Unless you can actually get a solid proof that Uzumakis are indeed from Senju rather than Otsutsuki, then your theory is as headcanon as is mine.
Otherwise, I have more materials to back my claim than yours.
Rubbish, the mangekyou isn't a rare power, all Uchiha have potential fornit, it's secrets exist on the stone tablet. The EMS is the rare power, which Itachi explained. Even then it's common quality is weapons manifestation via Susanoo and genjutsu, which still shits on your claim.
Mangekyu is rare that it is not common. The fact that it is on a stone tablet that can only be read by stronger eyes means that it is a secret.
EMS does not mean Susanoo. It just means that your eyes wouldnt go blind. Mangekyu means you have unlocked 2 new unique abilities. If it is not rare, how come there are only a handful of Uchihas that has it unlocked?
They said no such thing, and Kishi making the movie is suspect at best. Kid Naruto knew shadow clones, which we know is BS, because Kishi wouldn't make such a novice mistake. And yes the manga is the only true canon. However, no such thing (yang BS) exists in the fillerish movies or databooks.
This statement means "I NITPICK"
Of course, the movies are BS, hell even the manga is too. But just because there are somethings that I disagree with, does not mean that I will claim arguments derived from them as BS.
You're nitpicking. Movies are made by Kishi. They are included as canon material.
As for your "Yang" shit, they are symbols. Much like how you would not see Yin and Yang from Hagoromo and Hamura, Indra and Asura, nor Toneri, Momoshiki and Kinshiki.
You have a brain, I suggest you use it and see the relation of simple symbolism and characterization.
He had the Tenseigan vessel so the claim he didn't have access to the power of the Tenseigan is head canon. Also, Naruto's power is RSM which is six paths senjutsu, not yang power.
He needs to be with the Tenseigan Orb to use it. If that is the argument, kind of makes the whole point of grabbing Hanabi's eyes pointless, no?
I am talking about his Chakra Cloak, not RSM. The first time we see his Chakra Cloak Mode is when Kurama was taken down by Kushina's Chakra Chains inside the seal.
You don't have an argument here, Kushina and Karin manifest chains and both are yin users. Kushina doesn't even have yang release, so we know it's a yin power, and not a yang power.
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Wanna try again?
Cloaks are from the sealing method and we know Minato had yin Kurama sealed in him, so you don't have an argument here either. Wanna try again?
There you go again with grasping straws and pushing it to another.
Hey, if you're doing that, why not just agree the Uzumaki is Hamura's side family?
You know, since you're pushing Nagato being Senju as the entire Uzumaki family as Senju.
As well as going completely off with the whole Yin Yang symbols.
Yin being head/mind/eyes. Yang being body/heart/chakra.
Fuinjutsu is Yang.
The whole splitting and sealing is a Yang affinity skill.
So IDK how your argument is helping you.. Because They have Yin? Because the seal themselves are Yin?
The seals aren't the tech. That's like the piece of paper that you put them in or jar or whatever. That's just the chakra SEAL.
The tech is the process of putting whatever is being sealed into the thing (jar or yin seal).
You know, taking SOMETHING EXISTING and TRANSFORMING it/them to another.
Everything that YANG affinity is all about.
You clearly missed the point, I was shitting on the whole notion of your second rate argument for Uzumaki being Hamura descendants, by showing only the Uchiha have been compared to the Hyuga, and one to even Hamura, yet we know they're not related. And for you to create a fanfic relationship between the Uzumaki and Hamura is a bad joke.
Lol you were making a correlation with the Uchiha and the Hyuga. Which is correct BTW. Both are doujutsu users. Both have some special powers within those eyes. Just one is more Yin and the other is more Yang.
Saying that with the same for Senju and Uzumaki is plausable. Considering that Hamura's side share the same powers as Naruto's.
Your fanfic of Uzumaki being Senju because Nagato is is a terrible joke.
That's like saying that because an ant is an insect, all insects are ants.
Nice nitpick. Also who says that Hamura is ONLY completely Yang.
Even Hagoromo has Yang in him, otherwise he wouldn't have had the Sage Mode (thing on his forehead).
Also the symbols for Yang is that they are younger, lighter completion, takes longer to mature.
But hey, keep making yourself look like a fool.
All stupid people are Uchiha fans, but not all Uchiha fans are stupid.
You belong to the former.
You are very peculiar. You can make these distinctions about who is what because "symbols" yet you cannot even understand HEAVY IMPLICATIONS that basically scream at you that it is how it is.
Nagato, an individual belonging to many ancestry, can BOTH be a Senju AND Uzumaki.
Exhibit A: Nagato's mother is a Senju, while his father is an Uzumaki.
BUUUUUUUUUT hey, "Nagato is Senju" DEFIIIIIIIINITELY makes the entire clan of Uzumaki as Senju despite the fact that they are distant cousins. You know, through an uncle, the one from the moon perhaps?
like listen to this:
Indra has the Uchiha as his descendants. Thereby making Senjus the cousins because that is Asura's house.
The kids that will become the Hyugas and the Uzumakis will become distant cousins if they are under Hamura's side of the family.
Get that through your thick skull. "Nagato is Senju therefore ALL Uzumakis are Senju"
No it's not a nitpick it's a canon manga fact. They (Uzumaki and Senju) are cousins because they have a common ancestor. If it went further back than their ancestor, then the others would've been mentioned as cousins also. Therefore, the buck stops at Asura.
You got a databook on that claim? Where that source that makes you say that it stops at Asura? I need them panel number and page number and chapter number on that manga source.
Nope, the only thing I have going for me is the manga. And Nagato being an Uzumaki being a Senju descendant shits on the notion of Uzumaki being anothing else. On the other hand you have nothing going for you, as I've yet to see a single fact backing you up.
Lol I have everything going for me.
1) Hagoromo and Hamura being Yin and Yang
2) Sasuke and Naruto being Yin and Yang
3) Hanabi and Toneri being Yin and Yang
4) chakra and vessel
5) Juubi and gedo mazou
6) Momoshiki and Kinshiki
EVERYTHING IS ALL ABOUT DUALITY
The repetitive symbolism of Yin and Yang. Yin is older and has eyes. Yang is younger and has body.
Basically the overall theme of Part 3 (the alliance war).
Hagoromo (Uchiha and Senju)
Hamura (Hyuga and Uzumaki)
SEE?
Everything lines up. Why Toneri share the same abilities as Naruto. Why he is great at sealing/restraints.
These are far less farfetched than Uzumaki being a fricken Senju because some guy has Senju blood.
He never referred to them as incarnates the moment he mentioned about the war. The **** are you talking about STILL.
I also never said that Hagoromo told them that they just became their (Hago's and Hamu's) incarnates.
I said their power levels are that on the realm of Hagoromo's and Hamura's. Keep up will ya?
Putting words out of people's mouth just to appease your ego that you are correct?
That's low.
Now at this point I am wondering if I should just let you think of why my claim that Sasuke and Naruto has surpassed Indra and Asura or will you be a dumb idiot and say "the manga or databook does not mention that"?
Hagoromo gave them BOTH seals. There was no need for Hamura. He was also strictly on the moon. That is why he appeared to Hinata. Otherwise, he would have appeared for either Naruto or Sasuke.
All of the new gen are fodders except Mitsuki. He is a cheater Otsutsuki clone.
He already has Sage and Chakra Mode.
what? are you backtracking here?
Your claim is that because Nagato was confirmed Senju descendant, the Uzumaki clan is under the Senju bloodline.
IDK what you mean by this.
Nagato is Uzumaki with Senju ties.
Nagato = BOTH Uzumaki and Senju
Uzumaki =/= Senju.
If I am reaching with my theory of the Uzumaki belonging to Hamura's bloodline, you are too with your Uzumaki is Senju.
Unless you can actually get a solid proof that Uzumakis are indeed from Senju rather than Otsutsuki, then your theory is as headcanon as is mine.
Otherwise, I have more materials to back my claim than yours.
Mangekyu is rare that it is not common. The fact that it is on a stone tablet that can only be read by stronger eyes means that it is a secret.
EMS does not mean Susanoo. It just means that your eyes wouldnt go blind. Mangekyu means you have unlocked 2 new unique abilities. If it is not rare, how come there are only a handful of Uchihas that has it unlocked?
This statement means "I NITPICK"
Of course, the movies are BS, hell even the manga is too. But just because there are somethings that I disagree with, does not mean that I will claim arguments derived from them as BS.
You're nitpicking. Movies are made by Kishi. They are included as canon material.
As for your "Yang" shit, they are symbols. Much like how you would not see Yin and Yang from Hagoromo and Hamura, Indra and Asura, nor Toneri, Momoshiki and Kinshiki.
You have a brain, I suggest you use it and see the relation of simple symbolism and characterization.
He needs to be with the Tenseigan Orb to use it. If that is the argument, kind of makes the whole point of grabbing Hanabi's eyes pointless, no?
I am talking about his Chakra Cloak, not RSM. The first time we see his Chakra Cloak Mode is when Kurama was taken down by Kushina's Chakra Chains inside the seal.
LUL WUT?
50% Yin and Yang = Yin affinity????!!!
There you go again with grasping straws and pushing it to another.
Hey, if you're doing that, why not just agree the Uzumaki is Hamura's side family?
You know, since you're pushing Nagato being Senju as the entire Uzumaki family as Senju.
As well as going completely off with the whole Yin Yang symbols.
Yin being head/mind/eyes. Yang being body/heart/chakra.
Fuinjutsu is Yang.
The whole splitting and sealing is a Yang affinity skill.
So IDK how your argument is helping you.. Because They have Yin? Because the seal themselves are Yin?
The seals aren't the tech. That's like the piece of paper that you put them in or jar or whatever. That's just the chakra SEAL.
The tech is the process of putting whatever is being sealed into the thing (jar or yin seal).
You know, taking SOMETHING EXISTING and TRANSFORMING it/them to another.
Everything that YANG affinity is all about.
Lol you were making a correlation with the Uchiha and the Hyuga. Which is correct BTW. Both are doujutsu users. Both have some special powers within those eyes. Just one is more Yin and the other is more Yang.
Saying that with the same for Senju and Uzumaki is plausable. Considering that Hamura's side share the same powers as Naruto's.
Your fanfic of Uzumaki being Senju because Nagato is is a terrible joke.
That's like saying that because an ant is an insect, all insects are ants.
It's called watching the movie. I'd post those 2 movies on here if I could.
There's my proof for my claims.
But hey, you want manga scans of those symbolism?
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I mean I could go on but that seems pointless since you will just dismiss it as it is not in line with your views.
I mean it is pretty obvious that if it is not explicit, you will use "CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT, IT IS NOT IN THE MANGA NOR DATABOOK"
But you certainly have no problems with saying "THE UZUMAKIs BELONG TO THE SENJU CLAN"
IDK what to do with you.
Nice nitpick. Also who says that Hamura is ONLY completely Yang.
Even Hagoromo has Yang in him, otherwise he wouldn't have had the Sage Mode (thing on his forehead).
Also the symbols for Yang is that they are younger, lighter completion, takes longer to mature.
But hey, keep making yourself look like a fool.
All stupid people are Uchiha fans, but not all Uchiha fans are stupid.
You belong to the former.
You are very peculiar. You can make these distinctions about who is what because "symbols" yet you cannot even understand HEAVY IMPLICATIONS that basically scream at you that it is how it is.
Nagato, an individual belonging to many ancestry, can BOTH be a Senju AND Uzumaki.
Exhibit A: Nagato's mother is a Senju, while his father is an Uzumaki.
BUUUUUUUUUT hey, "Nagato is Senju" DEFIIIIIIIINITELY makes the entire clan of Uzumaki as Senju despite the fact that they are distant cousins. You know, through an uncle, the one from the moon perhaps?
like listen to this:
Indra has the Uchiha as his descendants. Thereby making Senjus the cousins because that is Asura's house.
The kids that will become the Hyugas and the Uzumakis will become distant cousins if they are under Hamura's side of the family.
Get that through your thick skull. "Nagato is Senju therefore ALL Uzumakis are Senju"
What nonsense.
You got a databook on that claim? Where that source that makes you say that it stops at Asura? I need them panel number and page number and chapter number on that manga source.
Lol I have everything going for me.
1) Hagoromo and Hamura being Yin and Yang
2) Sasuke and Naruto being Yin and Yang
3) Hanabi and Toneri being Yin and Yang
4) chakra and vessel
5) Juubi and gedo mazou
6) Momoshiki and Kinshiki
EVERYTHING IS ALL ABOUT DUALITY
The repetitive symbolism of Yin and Yang. Yin is older and has eyes. Yang is younger and has body.
Basically the overall theme of Part 3 (the alliance war).
Hagoromo (Uchiha and Senju)
Hamura (Hyuga and Uzumaki)
SEE?
Everything lines up. Why Toneri share the same abilities as Naruto. Why he is great at sealing/restraints.
These are far less farfetched than Uzumaki being a fricken Senju because some guy has Senju blood.
He never referred to them as incarnates the moment he mentioned about the war. The **** are you talking about STILL.
I also never said that Hagoromo told them that they just became their (Hago's and Hamu's) incarnates.
I said their power levels are that on the realm of Hagoromo's and Hamura's. Keep up will ya?
Putting words out of people's mouth just to appease your ego that you are correct?
That's low.
Now at this point I am wondering if I should just let you think of why my claim that Sasuke and Naruto has surpassed Indra and Asura or will you be a dumb idiot and say "the manga or databook does not mention that"?
movie for one. the entire later part of manga is another. but hey, keep nitpicking.
You don't even have any canon sources to go along with.
Just half baked quotes that can be taken any other way.
Hagoromo gave them BOTH seals. There was no need for Hamura. He was also strictly on the moon. That is why he appeared to Hinata. Otherwise, he would have appeared for either Naruto or Sasuke.
Is she the only one that got redesigned into an adult version?
I asked for manga proofs and statements, so provide them. I don't have time to repeat the same canon facts over and over to you. Especially, when all you come back with is head canon.
You claimed Uzumaki are Hamura descendants, show the proof?
I claimed they are senju descendants it is confirmed they are blood relatives to the Senju. And they are, a member, is referred to as senju blood. In both instances blood was mentioned. Yet we know he is an Uzumaki because he is identified as an Uzumaki. If there was any blood relationship to any other clan, it would've been mentioned. And yes they would be called Senju, however they chose to specialise and do their own thing so are known by that. They have the Asura traits of vitality and body just like the Senju main clan. You're pretty dense, you don't even know what a distant relative is, let alone distant blood relative?
You claim weapons, cloaks, fuinn jutsu are yang release provide proof?
I have provided proof where yin release users have demonstarted all 3, including Uzumaki Kushina. Therefore, that claim was shat on.
You claim kinshiki is yng and Momo is yin, you claim Toneri is yang where is the proof (the statements)?
You claim proof, and ignore canon quotes and sources so show the proof for all of ypur claims reference them and post the scans. We have all the time in the world to read them. I don't mean your half baked bullshit head canon, I mean actual canon scans where such things are confirmed.
You claim you have everything going for your head canon, so I look forward to the actual scans confirming all of your nonsense.
claimed they are senju descendants it is confirmed they are blood relatives to the Senju. And they are, a member, is referred to as senju blood. In both instances blood was mentioned. Yet we know he is an Uzumaki because he is identified as an Uzumaki. If there was any blood relationship to any other clan, it would've been mentioned. And yes they would be called Senju, however they chose to specialise and do their own thing so are known by that. They have the Asura traits of vitality and body just like the Senju main clan. You're pretty dense, you don't even know what a distant relative is, let alone distant blood relative?
yo, where's the proof?
All you got was Nagato being a Senju blood.
None of that says anything about the Uzumaki being Senju.
As for your nonsense "blood relative" mumbo jumbo, anyone that is the descendant of Kaguya will distant blood relatives.
Where's that manga panel proof that Uzumaki is Senju? You gave me Nagato being Senju but that's it.
You cannot prove that the Uzumaki cannot be outside of the Senju bloodline.
Hell, it was not even implied that the Uzumaki is derived from the Senjus.
Where's YOUR proof on that?
You keep asking for proof when you keep denying shit.
Everyone knows in this forum and outside of this forum that there is a reoccurring theme of Yin and Yang and they will tell you whether which one is which.
To reiterate: Hago is Yin. Hamu is Yang. Indra is Yin. Asura is Yang. Uchiha is Yin. Senju is Yang.
See the pattern?
Again, chakra is Yin. vessel is Yang.
Doujustu is Yin. Modes are Yang (sage or chakra).
You want proof, I suggest you reread the entire Naruto manga, from Part 1 to Part 3. Then watch the 2 movies. Then reread the Boruto manga (one shot).
There's all your proof that you will again deny because you know, you have that strong belief that you are right.
Hey, the Hyugas and Uzumakis can particularly not be the main and branch family of Hamura but that is the least likely to happen.
Since, the Uchihas are only Sharingan users and the Uzumakis are specialized in sealing and chakra armaments instead of Sage Mode.
Much like Momoshiki and Kinshiki's relationship. Much like Hagoromo and Hamura's relationship. Much like Indra and Asura's relationship. You know?
The one having the Yin and the Yang. The one with early maturity and the other late maturity? The one with the eyes vs the one with the resilience?
BUT HEY, because you only prefer YOUR own version, the movie does not count, no?
Keep asking for proof, you're the one unwilling to accept those.
Your case:
Nagato is BOTH Senju and Uzumaki.
I agree, I just do not agree that Uzuamkis are Senjus.
Again, all ants are insects but not all insects are ants.
Call me dense yet you keep pushing on this theory of the Uzumakis are from the Senju bloodline because Nagato is a Senju?
That's more half-baked theory than the Uzumaki being from Hamura's lineage.
Let's see why I believe that is the case.
One: Senju and Uzumaki are distant blood relative.
Two: Hamura's main family is most likely the Hyugas or at the very least moon Hyugas.
Three: Toneri exhibits the same techs as Naruto. (try to cut that connection, RSM or otherwise)
Four: Yin Yang symbolism
Five: Senju are known for Sage Mode, Uzumakis are known for fuinjutsu and chakra chains (something Kinshiki and Urashiki exhibits. As well as Toneri).
Try to refute all of those and I will back off my case.
Otherwise:
I have given you all the proofs as to why Uzumakis are on Hamura's line.
Why your claim of Uzumaki being Senju is shit.
Also that you nitpick.
Everyone has Yin and Yang releases. But hey, say that because seals are making use of Yin, means that everyone of them is a Yin user and not at all Yang users because you don't get to see their sealing techs (which are Yang techs BTW).
Where are the manga scans, databook entries and movie proofs you claimed. I didn't ask for your head canon, I asked for the proofs. In case you forgot I will require the post for you.
I asked for manga proofs and statements, so provide them. I don't have time to repeat the same canon facts over and over to you. Especially, when all you come back with is head canon.
You claimed Uzumaki are Hamura descendants, show the proof?
I claimed they are senju descendants it is confirmed they are blood relatives to the Senju. And they are, a member, is referred to as senju blood. In both instances blood was mentioned. Yet we know he is an Uzumaki because he is identified as an Uzumaki. If there was any blood relationship to any other clan, it would've been mentioned. And yes they would be called Senju, however they chose to specialise and do their own thing so are known by that. They have the Asura traits of vitality and body just like the Senju main clan. You're pretty dense, you don't even know what a distant relative is, let alone distant blood relative?
You claim weapons, cloaks, fuinn jutsu are yang release provide proof?
I have provided proof where yin release users have demonstarted all 3, including Uzumaki Kushina. Therefore, that claim was shat on, yet you're still running with you fapfic.
You claim kinshiki is yang and Momo is yin, you claim Toneri is yang where is the proof (the statements)?
You claim proof, and ignore canon quotes and sources so show the proof for all of ypur claims reference them and post the scans. We have all the time in the world to read them. I don't mean your half baked bullshit head canon, I mean actual canon scans where such things are confirmed.
You claim you have everything going for your head canon, so I look forward to the actual scans confirming all of your nonsense.
IDK man, where's your proof that the entire clan is derived from Senju bloodline. I see a lot of statements and not at all manga facts.
Seems like head canon to me.
"There was this one guy that was Senju and Uzumaki, that must mean the Uzumaki is a Senju clan"
IDK man, either drop your piss poor theory and I would drop mine as well or keep yours and that would validate my theory through your actions of "THIS IS BECAUSE I CAN GRASP THROUGH STRAWS" tactic.
Honestly, how do you reject these theories when there are so many similarities yet whole-heartedly believe that the Uzumakis are a Senju clan just because Nagato, an individual, was BOTH?
You have no facts nor proof. You're just talking theories and you're passing it off as "canon" when the databook nor manga does not SPECIFICALLY say that the Uzumakis are Senju descendants.
Nagato =/= clan.
where's your proof on that?
confirmed: Uzumaki distant blood relatives of Senju (being part Hamura's clan is congruent with this)
confirmed: Nagato is both of Senju and Uzumaki descendant (Uzumaki being Hamura's clan is still congruent with this)
confirmed: Toneri share the same powers as Naruto, an Uzumaki (this does not violate any of the previous facts)
>asks for theory's basis
>gets in depth analysis and comparisons for theory
>asks for scans (because movies have scans LUL)
>denies proofs
>push his OWN fanfic
>doesn't have a basis for theory
