How weak was Hamura Otsutsuki?

[Animegoin]

Not really. I responded the way I did because you were already talking down to me in your previous response with "But I thought that would be common sense, no?"

Lmfao if I was talking down on you, you’d know immediately. Check my responses to Sir Blades for examples.

But like I said, thanks for contributing.

 

[Umari Senju]

Hagoromo’s descendants didn’t have senjutsu nor TSB at first either so what’s your point? They were still stronger than Hamura’s kids. And we all know that Hagoromo eventually granted Asura his truth seeking orbs and senjutsu but the orbs weren’t passed down and the last one that received the senjutsu was Hashirama so, again, what’s your point?

@bold: what reference are you drawing this conclusion from? What do you know about Hagoromo’s children? Was there a story plot somewhere that showcases them or explained who they were? There accomplishments? Feats?

GetsugaTenshou is not entirely wrong here. You seemed to have come to your own conclusion that Hamura is so very weak and when someone gives you a contradictory response you get upset call them names and completely refute their response in the most condescending way possible.

That isn’t a discussion it’s baiting.

 

[Animegoin]

The problem here is you are going off the assumption that Hagoromo shares his powers with Hamura in order for him to fight along side him, when you have no actual proof of this. As you stated you are using an Anime filler to form a hypothesis that lends to the notion that Hamura could not fight along his brother without his aid.

This was never stated not proven I’m the manga, anime, or The Last. Hamura May have been somewhat below Hagoromo’s level but that doesn’t mean he was incapable of fighting by his side. We’ve seen what Otsutsuki can do without Sage Mode or a Rinnegan (reference Kinshiki) Hamura was Kaguya son. Directly from her womb just like Hagoromo.

He is still god tier if that’s what you’re asking. He just isn’t at Hagoromo’s level though the power gap is small. Things got rushed and haphazardly put together at the end of the series so things were not developed on Hamura’s end as they should of been, hense why he was the subject of matter in The Last; to give more background on his character.

Again, you basing a huge portion of your hypothesis on “filler” info which quite often contradicts, and sometimes, downright ignores manga material.

Exactly and I agree, except we know that nothing Hamura did actually contributed. And that it was a Rinnegan technique that sealed Kaguya. We also know that Hagormo by himself was enough to seal Kaguya. Do you think Hamura could’ve done it by himself?

 

[Animegoin]

@bold: what reference are you drawing this conclusion from? What do you know about Hagoromo’s children? Was there a story plot somewhere that showcases them or explained who they were? There accomplishments? Feats?

This whole GetsugaTenshou is not entirely wrong here. You seemed to have come to your own conclusion that Hamura is so very weak and when someone gives you a contradictory response you get upset call them names and completely refute their response in the most condescending way possible.

That isn’t a discussion it’s baiting.

First of all, read the context of the messages you’re quoting. Not to mention that I don’t see where I called him a name here? Prove where I did and if you can’t, that’s baiting.

To answer your question, The entire history of the Shinobi world. The Senju And Uchiha dominance, nothing of importance about the Hyuga was mentioned when discussing the most powerful clans of the feudal times. Unless the topic was specifically about the Hyuga. We know that Hamura’s children aren’t important enough to be talked about also. So any other question? I’ll give you a few more conclusions to jump to.

 

[Umari Senju]

Exactly and I agree, except we know that nothing Hamura did actually contributed. And that it was a Rinnegan technique that sealed Kaguya.We also know that Hagormo by himself was enough to seal Kaguya. Do you think Hamura could’ve done it by himself?

Except it wasn’t. Whole Rinnegan can cast Chibaku Tensei, the Chibaku Tensei used to seal Kaguya was a dual seal technique. Naruto does not have The Rinnegan yet together with Sasuke’s moon sea they used Chibaku Tensei. The Rinnegan tech was the cage, the seals were the lock. Chibaku Tensei alone would not have held her otherwise there would have been no need for the seals or Hamura/Naruto for that matter. Hamura was there by his brother’s side because his Sealing power was needed.

How do you know that it wasn’t Hamura who created the seals and gave the sun seal to Hagoromo? I’m which case that would mean Hagoromo needed Hamura moreso than the other way around. See how muddled things can get here when there isn’t a lot of data to go on?

 

[Umari Senju]

First of all, read the context of the messages you’re quoting. Not to mention that I don’t see where I called him a name here? Prove where I did and if you can’t, that’s baiting.

To answer your question, The entire history of the Shinobi world. The Senju And Uchiha dominance, nothing of importance about the Hyuga was mentioned when discussing the most powerful clans of the feudal times. Unless the topic was specifically about the Hyuga. We know that Hamura’s children aren’t important enough to be talked about also. So any other question? I’ll give you a few more conclusions to jump to.

Refer below

Well first of all, way to double post lmfao. #fail
Also, what’s an “alt?”
And if you read the posts here, you’d know I explained everything about their relationship and how useless being his brother is compared to just being him.

OH, and btw, Yahcob13 also didn’t state that Hamura sealed Kaguya with his brother’s help. So you sound foolish. Also the “it takes two to tango” isn’t commonly used for partners, it’s used for opponents in 1v1s and in your context you’re speaking as if Hamura really did solo Kaguya. Try to be smart. Thanks

You called him foolish.

Lmfao totally dude, you f*cked up but let’s blame the system. Seems to be your “go-to” for all of your mistakes

You moron, implication works both ways. It can be implied that Hamura solo’d Kaguya based on the way he worded it. Which you know to be true but you wanted to get prissy and got stomped in the process. Your fault lol.

And it’s funny how we’re back to implication again; because as I said before, that phrase is usually used in 1v1 and could imply that Hamura TANGO’d with Kaguya on his own. You’re an idiot conversing with a genius, sit down. Lmfao

You called Sir Blade a Moron and an idiot.

Neither of them have done so prior to your first attack on their intellect....Name calling:sdo:

This kind of response garners distracting, disrespectful, and condescending responses. Rather than a respectful rebuttal you took a bad approach and now all you have on your thread a Flame posts instead of an exchange of free ideas.

As to their descendants (not their children) they are not Hagoromo and Hamura. Things change over the centuries different bloods were introduced into different family branches. Both family trees stem from a common root but basing power scaling of progenitors off the watered down blood of their descendants isn’t exactly a sound way to go about a hypothesis. Especially when we are dealing with fictional characters.

 

[Sir Blades]

Never let a superiority complex prevent you from being sound, logical and reasonable. ​

Completely agree, its easy to deviate when plastered by pedantic banter with no clear reason.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

Exactly and I agree, except we know that nothing Hamura did actually contributed. And that it was a Rinnegan technique that sealed Kaguya. We also know that Hagormo by himself was enough to seal Kaguya. Do you think Hamura could’ve done it by himself?

It took Naruto and Sasuke (who put together, were essentially Hagoromo) along with arguably one of the most powerful females in the world, Sakura and Kakashi who later got a Six Paths powerup to seal her (and that wasn't even her at full power because she only had pieces of the Kyuubi from Kinkaku and Ginkaku). I seriously doubt Hagoromo would allow Hamura come along to take part in a life threatening battle if he felt he could do himself.

 

[Waltz]

Completely agree, its easy to deviate when plastered by pedantic banter with no clear reason.

Perhaps, "He" had the upper hand in your discussion, however. ​

 

[Animegoin]

Except it wasn’t. Whole Rinnegan can cast Chibaku Tensei, the Chibaku Tensei used to seal Kaguya was a dual seal technique. Naruto does not have The Rinnegan yet together with Sasuke’s moon sea they used Chibaku Tensei. The Rinnegan tech was the cage, the seals were the lock. Chibaku Tensei alone would not have held her otherwise there would have been no need for the seals or Hamura/Naruto for that matter. Hamura was there by his brother’s side because his Sealing power was needed.

How do you know that it wasn’t Hamura who created the seals and gave the sun seal to Hagoromo? I’m which case that would mean Hagoromo needed Hamura moreso than the other way around. See how muddled things can get here when there isn’t a lot of data to go on?

Lmfao what are you even denying? See you’re the one doing what you accused me of doing which is denying things and getting mad. Not to mention that you destroyed your own logic. Hagoromo by himself bestowed half of his power to each of them. Sasuke’s Rinnegan allowed the Chibaku Tensei to activate and Naruto was just there to receive the Six Paths power buff. Otherwise, if Sasuke would’ve gotten both, he could’ve done it himself. Kaguya fell victim to genjutsu upon being sealed (Which is why her third eye eclipsed) (Which is also how Sasuke learned how to use deva path and Chibaku tensei was from sealing Kaguya, fyi). Not to mention that Rinnegan Sasuke -that only possess half of Hagoromo’s power- was able to put all of the tailed beasts into a genjutsu and trap them in a smaller scale chibaku tense similar to what Kaguya had experienced. So And I’ll ask you again, what did Hamura contribute?

 

[Sir Blades]

Perhaps, "He" had the upper hand in your discussion, however. ​

Possibly, I should have been more explicit in my verbiage. My point was to simply establish that it (referring to the original topic) required a team effort to seal Kaguya and that the exclusion of Hamura is reductive of his abilities. If Hagoromo is held to such high standards, then logically that would mean that he would be well aware of Hamura's role and effectiveness in the sealing process.

 

[Animegoin]

Refer below



You called him foolish.




You called Sir Blade a Moron and an idiot.

Neither of them have done so prior to your first attack on their intellect....Name calling:sdo:

This kind of response garners distracting, disrespectful, and condescending responses. Rather than a respectful rebuttal you took a bad approach and now all you have on your thread a Flame posts instead of an exchange of free ideas.

Okay, now you’re pissing me off. You must be daft. Originally you had quoted my response to GetgaTenshou and said that I had called him names. I told you to prove that I had called him names and now, you’re quoting my responses to Sir Blades, who attacked me initially for no reason. Go back and read it. Or not, idc. XD Just know your ignorance is duly noted.

 

[Ansatsuken]

New kid in the block starts showing his true color. I sense something not good will come in the future starting from here.

 

[Umari Senju]

Lmfao what are you even denying? See you’re the one doing what you accused me of doing which is denying things and getting mad. Not to mention that you destroyed your own logic. Hagoromo by himself bestowed half of his power to each of them. Sasuke’s Rinnegan allowed the Chibaku Tensei to activate and Naruto was just there to receive the Six Paths power buff. Otherwise, if Sasuke would’ve gotten both, he could’ve done it himself. Kaguya feel victim to genjutsu upon being sealed (Which is why her third eye eclipsed) (Which is also how Sasuke learned how to use deva path and Chibaku tensei was from sealing Kaguya, fyi). Not to mention that Rinnegan Sasuke -that only possess half of Hagoromo’s power- was able to put all of the tailed beasts into a genjutsu and trap them in a smaller scale chibaku tense similar to what Kaguya had experienced. So And I’ll ask you again, what did Hamura contribute?

I wasn’t attesting that it was truth. I threw out a haphazard hypothesis based on what little data we have to make a point and you missed that. You aren’t even paying attention so I’m done.

 

[Animegoin]

I wasn’t attesting that it was truth. I threw out a haphazard hypothesis based on what little data we have to make a point and you missed that. You aren’t even paying attention so I’m done.

Lmfao yeah sure you did but k.

 

[Waltz]

Sir Blades, having good diction doesn't make you logically sound nor does it make you reasonable. Originally the cascade began when you made the claim that Yahcob13's post was referring to both Hamura and Hagoromo, something you couldn't prove to be true with your only evidence to that being the fact that your experience with him leads you to the conclusion that he is a "level headed" user, something totally unrelated to the question (something the OP mildly exploited) However OP may be an alt as you say; he's made a wise decision to avoid me.

Well, there's nothing else of interest here.
​

 

[Animegoin]

"Hamura has no feats, how could he have possibly contributed". Feats alone don't determine a characters potential or capabilities. Prime Hiruzen has no feats but we know in that state he was stronger than old Hiruzen. While alive 3T Madara had no feats but we know that he was the strongest in the clan so he's automatically above any other 3T user at that time. Hamura's abilities were sufficient to aid his brother in Besting Kaguya and the fact that he survived the entire fight which would logically include surviving Kaguya's attacks without any life threatening injuries one would assume that he had a vast array of abilities at hand comparable to his brother in strength but not quite the equivalent which allowed him to achieve these things. ​

Not going to lie, I originally ignored your comments because of the font and thought you were trolling; I apologize. With that being said, do you think that we could legitimately put the Tenseigan down as one of Hamura’s doujutsu?

 

[Sir Blades]

Sir Blades, having good diction doesn't make you logically sound nor does it make you reasonable. Originally the cascade began when you made the claim that Yahcob13's post was referring to both Hamura and Hagoromo, something you couldn't prove to be true with your only evidence to that being the fact that your experience with him leads you to the conclusion that he is a "level headed" user, something totally unrelated to the question (something the OP mildly exploited) However OP may be an alt as you say; he's made a wise decision to avoid me.

Well, there's nothing else of interest here.
​

If someone claims to be a genius, am I not liable to hold him to such standards? If that's his claim then I expect genius level quality from him, that is the least I can do for him. It would be disrespectful to overlook the statement.

I dont recall naysaying your statement though, I agreed to your post on two occasions.

Op mentions both Hagoromo and Hamura, and discredits Hamura. Yahcob mentions Hamura sealing Kaguya, is that not a correct assessment?
I claim its a team effort (Hamura and Hagoromo), by including Hamura I am not only postulating him as an equal to his brother but as a necessary person in the sealing of Kaguya. Op's topic is "How weak is Hamura", by me stating he is on par with Hagoromo that is evident that I am not only challenging an open question but providing my take on the character.

 

[Animegoin]

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I was editing the comment to change the question before you posted that but sure. I’m not going to make a thread about it just to attract a bunch of moronic white knights but you can if you want.

 

[Uverdore9]

Hamura is not stronger or equal to Hagoromo and his hype is sure damn below latter but I put him in Spsm Naruto or Rinnegan Adult Sasuke level at the least. I am sure Kaguya never fought Naruto and Sasuke in her full strength and she was not stable with the Juubī.