The Necromancer
Active member
I know this is a topic of some discourse for a lot of people, so I thought I'd make a thread to hopefully end the discussion for some. This topic, of course, being Tobi/Madara/Obito's evasion of Itachi's Tensha Fūin: Amaterasu, or Transcription Seal: Amaterasu, as shown here (Note: No pages have been omitted from this transaction).
Thesis Statement: Tobi/Obito used Kamui to evade the flames of Amaterasu, and not Izanagi as many believe.
Proof: What better proof is there for a debate than the author's words himself? Let me share them with you.
Quoting from the second section of the Databook page on "Madara," it is stated that He has the power to deflect all offensive attacks, his body unscathed due to Itachi's Amaterasu, and vanish through the air as if transcending into space.
This is very clearly referring specifically to Obito's Kamui for the following reasons.
1. At this moment in time the only ability of Obito's shown was Kamui phasing.
2. This entire Databook entry is referring specifically to Obito's Kamui phasing, though we did not know its name at the time.
3. It is stated with an arrow pointing from the above quote towards a picture of Obito using his Kamui with the caption, Tobi's body disappears into nothing. Is this also one of Madara's abilities?
4. It is further stated with a separate arrow pointing to another instance of Obito's Kamui that, "Any attack will slip through Tobi's body, even though he doesn't seem to be using the Art of Teleportation."
Common Retort: "Kamui cannot remove things that are already in physical contact with Obito's body when used to phase.
This is the most common response I've seen opposing the Kamui argument, and it is not based on ignorance.
We know for a fact that any object Obito is in contact with can be phased using Kamui the same as his very own body.
Yet there is also enough evidence that backs the claim that Obito can choose what objects he does and does not Kamui with him.
Here we see Obito who is physically attached to the Juubi by a Hashirama DNA tether. In this chapter Naruto launches a Rasenshuriken at him, and he is able to avoid all damage by using the Kamui phasing ability to remove that section of his body, preventing him from actually being hit by the Rasenshurken at all.
But it is plain to see that the tether than was very much physically connected to Obito, was not phasing through the Rasenshuriken as his body was.
The reasoning behind this is moot, as regardless of whether or not it was simply unanticipated, or he was unaware of the trajectory of the Rasenshuriken, the fact remains that an object in the real world, bound to Obito with a physical connection, was totally left out while his Kamui phased his body.
But is this all the proof? No. Much earlier in the manga Obito battles Konan. In this battle we learn a lot about Obito's Kamui. We learn that his phasing has a five minute time limit. We learn that he cannot phase and warp himself at the same time. And we learn that he must make physical contact with an object to warp it, and that it takes longer for him to warp other objects or people than it does to warp himself.
But much more importantly, we see the first, and best evidence that Obito can still phase through objects he is physically attached to, or that are physically attached to him.
Here, Obito attempts to fully warp out of Konan's final trap, but she manages to attach what seems to be a rough total of five or more explosive tags to his body in an attempt to not only stop his full warp, but to also damage him as well. After this succeeds in preventing his full warp but fails to damage his body, Obito remarks that he was able to slip through these explosions, despite the original tags being physically connected to his body.
Conclusion: Honestly I didn't think it even required this much proof, as many, many people are satisfied with this Databook answer, but it is clear from the Databook's statements and from further evidence in the manga that debunks refutes to this claim, that Obito did in fact us Kamui to evade Itachi's Amaterasu trap, rather than Izanagi or some other unnamed ability as some members claim.
Feel free to discuss.
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Thesis Statement: Tobi/Obito used Kamui to evade the flames of Amaterasu, and not Izanagi as many believe.
Proof: What better proof is there for a debate than the author's words himself? Let me share them with you.
You must be registered for see images
This is very clearly referring specifically to Obito's Kamui for the following reasons.
1. At this moment in time the only ability of Obito's shown was Kamui phasing.
2. This entire Databook entry is referring specifically to Obito's Kamui phasing, though we did not know its name at the time.
3. It is stated with an arrow pointing from the above quote towards a picture of Obito using his Kamui with the caption, Tobi's body disappears into nothing. Is this also one of Madara's abilities?
4. It is further stated with a separate arrow pointing to another instance of Obito's Kamui that, "Any attack will slip through Tobi's body, even though he doesn't seem to be using the Art of Teleportation."
Common Retort: "Kamui cannot remove things that are already in physical contact with Obito's body when used to phase.
This is the most common response I've seen opposing the Kamui argument, and it is not based on ignorance.
We know for a fact that any object Obito is in contact with can be phased using Kamui the same as his very own body.
You must be registered for see images
Yet there is also enough evidence that backs the claim that Obito can choose what objects he does and does not Kamui with him.
Here we see Obito who is physically attached to the Juubi by a Hashirama DNA tether. In this chapter Naruto launches a Rasenshuriken at him, and he is able to avoid all damage by using the Kamui phasing ability to remove that section of his body, preventing him from actually being hit by the Rasenshurken at all.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
The reasoning behind this is moot, as regardless of whether or not it was simply unanticipated, or he was unaware of the trajectory of the Rasenshuriken, the fact remains that an object in the real world, bound to Obito with a physical connection, was totally left out while his Kamui phased his body.
But is this all the proof? No. Much earlier in the manga Obito battles Konan. In this battle we learn a lot about Obito's Kamui. We learn that his phasing has a five minute time limit. We learn that he cannot phase and warp himself at the same time. And we learn that he must make physical contact with an object to warp it, and that it takes longer for him to warp other objects or people than it does to warp himself.
But much more importantly, we see the first, and best evidence that Obito can still phase through objects he is physically attached to, or that are physically attached to him.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Conclusion: Honestly I didn't think it even required this much proof, as many, many people are satisfied with this Databook answer, but it is clear from the Databook's statements and from further evidence in the manga that debunks refutes to this claim, that Obito did in fact us Kamui to evade Itachi's Amaterasu trap, rather than Izanagi or some other unnamed ability as some members claim.
Feel free to discuss.
