[Discussion] How to balance Cults

Dragomir

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This is not a valid point.
It is. Most ppl are competent enough to follow the rules.
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I would take a hunch and say that your game was a bit bastardy. It won't be allowed here as it will create a mess.
Not really. Bastard games aren't supposed to be balanced, our game was. Maybe not perfectly balanced, but enough so.

That's a dumb restriction. You're basically telling us hosts that we're not good enough to host such games. Not a good assumption.
 

Rohan

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It is. Most ppl are competent enough to follow the rules.
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Not really. Bastard games aren't supposed to be balanced, our game was. Maybe not perfectly balanced, but enough so.

That's a dumb restriction. You're basically telling us hosts that we're not good enough to host such games. Not a good assumption.
It is a valid restriction, not a dumb one. If you think otherwise that's fine.
 

Shanks

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Literally just tell them that they can't expose their former teammates.
Its still imbalance theortically the cult leader would certainly go after the other mafia members.
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Read this @Rohan , @Dragomir the rules states same when cults try to recruit a mafia.
 
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Dragomir

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Its still imbalance theortically the cult leader would certainly go after the other mafia members.
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Read this @Rohan , @Dragomir the rules states same when cults try to recruit a mafia.
Not if you make it so that they can only convert one Mafia.

Rules on how to make a setup? Nonsensical restrictions.
 

Rohan

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Its still imbalance theortically the cult leader would certainly go after the other mafia members.
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Read this @Rohan , @Dragomir the rules states same when cults try to recruit a mafia.
The only advice on Cult recruiting Mafia is this one:-

"Some moderators will force the Cult Leader to commit suicide if they attempt to recruit scum. This would make them ."

Which is over the top as it can create awkward situations. The best method is to make the recruit fail. In this case, there must also be a few unrecruitable town roles to prevent the recruit from becoming psuedo investigative ability.
 
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MadieV

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I think all suggestions are very creative but in my opinion, I think it's better if the restriction is "Conversion on mafia players fail" [Hidden]. otherwise the strain put on the recruited player is massive. It even works against their new cult wincon if not treated wisely.

Also, @Rohan, why don't you like bastard games? I understand they're very tedious but sometimes communities need some fresh elements to keep the player base interested and to overcome the stalemate they all suffer from at some point. Would you consider adding them once the mafia community is based?
 

Rohan

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I think all suggestions are very creative but in my opinion, I think it's better if the restriction is "Conversion on mafia players fail" [Hidden]. otherwise the strain put on the recruited player is massive. It even works against their new cult wincon if not treated wisely.

Also, @Rohan, why don't you like bastard games? I understand they're very tedious but sometimes communities need some fresh elements to keep the player base interested and to overcome the stalemate they all suffer from at some point. Would you consider adding them once the mafia community is based?
For now I am on the No side because it ends up setting a bad precedent. I wouldn't elaborate on this because it involves other mafia communities.
 

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For now I am on the No side because it ends up setting a bad precedent. I wouldn't elaborate on this because it involves other mafia communities.
If host knows what he is doing allow such games to be hosted should be allowed. Bastard games are fun ya it can be irritating since game is broken. Overall primarily mafia games are meant to be enjoyed.
 

Rohan

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If player knows what he is doing allow such games to be hosted should be allowed. Bastard games are fun ya it can be irritating since game is broken. Overall primarily mafia games are meant to be enjoyed.
I will look into this by asking a few other people. Maybe it will be allowed for a few games later on. But since this is the early phase (Only 4 games have happened), it will remain banned.
 
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Shanks

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I will look into this by asking a few other people. Maybe it will be allowed for a few games later on. But since this is the early phase (Only 4 games have happened), it will remain banned.
I am not arguing in anyway. Just giving my opinion . Hope you are not taking this in wrong way.

I am fine with you have took interest in our opinion into your account.
 

Rohan

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I am not arguing in anyway. Just giving my opinion . Hope you are not taking this in wrong way.

I am fine with you have took interest in our opinion into your account.
I am not taking this in a wrong way. All opinions are welcome. But this does not mean that all opinions will be approved and implemented. Only those which have a positive impact will be implemented. Also nothing is final, there is a chance that unapproved opinions might be given the green light in the future.

@MadieV, I will give a proper response to your post tommorow.
 

Dragomir

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I think all suggestions are very creative but in my opinion, I think it's better if the restriction is "Conversion on mafia players fail" [Hidden]. otherwise the strain put on the recruited player is massive. It even works against their new cult wincon if not treated wisely.

Also, @Rohan, why don't you like bastard games? I understand they're very tedious but sometimes communities need some fresh elements to keep the player base interested and to overcome the stalemate they all suffer from at some point. Would you consider adding them once the mafia community is based?
I don't like the idea of putting a restriction on how a host should create their setups. You can discourage them to try it, sure do that or ban it when you're(not you specifically, just in general) coaching the game.
 
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MadieV

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I don't like the idea of putting a restriction on how a host should create their setups. You can discourage them to try it, sure do that or ban it when you're(not you specifically, just in general) coaching the game.
Are you referring to the bastard games or the conversion of mafia players part?
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MadieV

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Conversion of Mafia part.
I don't think it is particularly restricting on the host nor is it discouraging them to get creative. It is more of a factual opinion. On standard setups, recruiting mafia doesn't work with the overall flow of the game. You're giving access to the cult to someone who already has a variety of information about the mafia faction.

Not only that but let's say you allow the cult leader to convert a mafia player and that person is still participating in the mafia chat. The converted mafia player can both influence mafia's night actions to benefit the cult and also plan cult's night actions accordingly. Basically, mafia is now cult's branch. You can restrict the player to not influence the game but every restriction you add is a step towards hindering the flow of the game. On the other hand, even if the player does not talk in the chat, it is a fact they're still receiving a constant influx of information about mafia's actions and, if the converted player can't do anything with information he receives to either plan the night actions of the cult or lynch the remaining players, the converted player might start feeling discouraged and may even question the point of him/her playing.

For a game where a 'mafia conversion' is possible and is still balanced/enjoyable, the host should come up with a way to counter all those hindrances in a logical manner. Maybe an open 'chaos' game could allow this type of action but I'm not sure 'chaos' games can be called mafia games.

Now, there are a lot of creative people so if someone designs a setup in which these conversions are necessary and important for the game then it must be evaluated as an isolated case in order to see what counters the host has come up with,but for the rest of them, I still think converting mafia players to the cult is not a good approach.
 
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