how strong is tobirama really?

[Bogard]

Because he was new to the mode? Naruto maintained his for far longer than Minato the first time we saw him do it. For reasons I already said, high reserves can mean any number of things; orochimaru had the reserves needed for sage mode, but he doesn't stand close by someone like Kisame where feats are concerned. You can't use one vague feat to try to assert that Minato 'might' have higher reserves than Tobirama, when Tobirama has a superior feat to anything Minato has shown.

At the beginning, Naruto couldn't even accumulate natural energy without toad oil. When he mastered with the oil, he trained without it. When he mastered without it, Pa said he manages to accumulate even more than without the oil. After that he had to train to upgrade his timelimit in the mode. All that requires training.

Even Jiraya can't even enter Sage Mode by himself despite being an experienced sage mode user [

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], so yes a newbie like Minato even being capable to enter Sage Mode by himself is already outstanding because it's not as easy as you think it is

I suggest you re-read the sage training arc

And by the way, what Tobirama feat puts him above Minato?

 

[WolfHaley]

Jiraiya simply never learned the mode. naruto did. Minato obviously would have. You can't speculate about Minato's training as you don't know a thing about what happened.

Fighting for a day against an opponent like Madara. Has Minato done that?

A newbie? What ever happened to all the wank about him using the mode before?

 

[Bogard]

Jiraiya simply never learned the mode. naruto did. Minato obviously would have. You can't speculate about Minato's training as you don't know a thing about what happened.

You don't know anything about Jiraya or Minato's training either

Fighting for a day against an opponent like Madara. Has Minato done that?

He wasn't fighting alone. It's easier to save chakra when you're fighting in group especially when medical ninjas or things like soldier pills exist in this manga. We don't know what happened. Besides, Minato was fighting day in day out in war periods. Hell even Kakashi could fight 2 days long

A newbie? What ever happened to all the wank about him using the mode before?

Clearly you're not even trying to listen anymore

 

[ARGUS]

Tobirama is on par with base minato

 

[Gein]

Tobirama created edo and can't even break it from the likes of Orochimaru.

Hashirama can.

Hashi > Tobi

 

[VongolaX]

He's on the same ball park as base Hashirama.

If not for Ashura incarnation and SM, they would be virtually equal.

 

[VongolaX]

Tobirama created edo and can't even break it from the likes of Orochimaru.

Hashirama can.

Hashi > Tobi

Orochimaru had to use his brothers cells.

If it were no zetsu body Edo/Orochimaru, Tobirama would of killed Orochimaru by now.

 

[VongolaX]

Tobirama created edo and can't even break it from the likes of Orochimaru.

Hashirama can.

Hashi > Tobi

Orochimaru had to use his brothers cells.

If it were no zetsu body Edo/Orochimaru, Tobirama would of killed Orochimaru by now.

 

[WolfHaley]

You don't know anything about Jiraya or Minato's training either

The difference is, is that I'm not speculating about Jiraiya and Minato, only stating that Jiraiya didn't learn to use it himself.

He wasn't fighting alone. It's easier to save chakra when you're fighting in group especially when medical ninjas or things like soldier pills exist in this manga. We don't know what happened. Besides, Minato was fighting day in day out in war periods. Hell even Kakashi could fight 2 days long

Chances are Madara wasn't either. If even Hashirama on their side meant that they'd have to fight for a whole day to defeat Madara, chances are they were put through their paces by The Uchiha. There's a massive difference in fighting several times in one day against fodders and fighting one fight non stop for a whole day against one of the strongest characters in the manga.

And we know for a fact the medical corp played a factor for the alliance, where the only ninja with any form of medical experience for the senju are Tobirama and Hashirama.

Clearly you're not even trying to listen anymore

You called Minato a newbie, when for all intents and purposes Naruto was too.

 

[Bogard]

The difference is, is that I'm not speculating about Jiraiya and Minato, only stating that Jiraiya didn't learn to use it himself.

And how do you know he never tried?

You called Minato a newbie, when for all intents and purposes Naruto was too.

Newbie compared to Jiraya of course he was

 

[Penguin]

Tobirama is around high kage - legend tier with base Minato. o-o

 

[lanakui8]

We can nor definelity say, that Tobirama is also good at Edo Tensei like Kabuto-Orochimaru cuz i think they really are much better at it, with stronger summons. Also when he will use Edo Tensei then he will not be able to fight himself, cuz he will have to control them with Handseals = He is just a spectator or his Edo Tensei will have there own will.

no i'm pretty sure that Kabuto and Orochimaru were better than Tobirama, but depending on who he revives they could help him and could be kage level. He just can't revive people who wouldn't willingly help him.

Hmm did he warp a Bijuudama ? I dont remember ( i am not hating, just asking, i really dont remember)

He didn't, but

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and tobirama is not the kind of guy to lie about that kind of stuff in a situation like that.

 

[KingHashirama]

Bro , that anime captured that moment perfectly... Minato and Hiruzen ain't got nothing on that dude. Chakra presence that made suigetsu melt.. come on now.

I don't even see how Minato is superior or even equal to Tobirama..

Tobirama was kickin ass with restricted power, and just base form.. while Minato was using BM.. and Hiruzen with Enma. Come on now.

Tobirama can counter FTG and Minato's shunshin.. the guy freaking made FTG..
His chakra presence is levels superior to Minato's
They dude is well-versed in kenjutsu/taijutsu/ninjutsu/genjutsu .. enough to be on the level of EMS Madara.

 

[LuckyMan]

Bro , that anime captured that moment perfectly... Minato and Hiruzen ain't got nothing on that dude. Chakra presence that made suigetsu melt.. come on now.

Having a strong chakra presence does not automatically make you better than someone. Tobirama is certainly on Hashirama level. I consider them equals. Its not like Hashirama was the head of the Senju clan because he was just way powerful than Tobirama, he was just the eldest child. Being an Ashura reincarnation puts him slightly above Tobirama but I doubt one could tell the difference. Tobirama needs more back story in my opinion.

 

[KingHashirama]

Having a strong chakra presence does not automatically make you better than someone. Tobirama is certainly on Hashirama level. I consider them equals. Its not like Hashirama was the head of the Senju clan because he was just way powerful than Tobirama, he was just the eldest child. Being an Ashura reincarnation puts him slightly above Tobirama but I doubt one could tell the difference. Tobirama needs more back story in my opinion.

In Naruto verse, it means you are stronger...

You can consider them equals.. however Kishimoto himself.. and the characters in the manga.. put Hashirama on another level even compared to Tobirama and Madara.

 

[LuckyMan]

In Naruto verse, it means you are stronger...

You can consider them equals.. however Kishimoto himself.. and the characters in the manga.. put Hashirama on another level even compared to Tobirama and Madara.

You're confusing Naruto with DBZ where having a stronger power level (ki) makes you stronger than someone.

Tsuandes chakra is stronger than Onoki's. Does that make her stronger than him? Ay's chakra is so powerful and huge Karin thought it was a tailed beast power yet he is still admitted inferiority to Minato. Get the point?

I understand where you're coming from. Hashiramas hype and feats put him above Tobirama as far as the manga goes, Kishi has made that clear, but just because you're above someone does not always mean you defeat them. If you take a deeper look into their abilities, Tobirama can certainly fight on his level.

Tobirama is obviously the faster of the two, not even including FTG either. His Water Style can certainly cut through Hashiramas Wood Style. Even if he cuts through it, Hashirama will reform it with more Wood as we seen him do already but still, he is severing it and making Hashi use more, giving him openings and points for counter attacking. FTG with Shadow Clones will be extremely effective against any opponent. With a fodder Edo or two he can really push Hashirama to extreme difficulty, if not defeating him.

The way I see, Hashirama is this mega powerful badass with gargantuan techniques to overwhelm you but Tobirama is a mega powerful badass with with no large scale techniques. It all comes down to who has more skill and who can outsmart the other, which will most likely be Tobirama. They are both greats imo but they one might lack the other excels. Thats why they are equals to me.

 

[kyubbi sagemode]

Bullshit

Hashirama> Minato> Tobirama> Hiruzen> Tsunade

Yes it's this ^^^