How strong is Sage Mode?

[kiiro]

Mangekyo sharingan users can utilize Susano'o, this is a power that Sasuke made 2 kages with their bodyguard retreat for their lives when they had no extensive knowledge on its power. And this happened with a nursling mangekyo sharingan user, being capable of killing a kage candidate(Danzo) and nearly killing an actual kage (Unruly Ay lost an arm in the process).
Jiraiya is not capable of replicating this feat, Orochimaru a senjutsu user admitted to being weaker than a MS user Itachi, and Dsm Kabuto lost to a MS user (due to a situational type jutsu).

Senju Sage Mode is the Sage Mode Hashirama uses. Hashirama doesn't have Frog Sage Mode or Dragon Sage Mode so it's the only name I got for such a Sage mode otherwise you know something that I don't?

The only people that successfully surpassed a mangekyo sharingan(no buffs) user is Bsm Naruto and Sm Hashirama.
As for the Rinnegan, it is a power that already utilizes six path chakra already, so there's no addition buff to to it but you're gonna need a Six path power senjutsu to beat/stalemate a Six path power eye known as the rinnegan.

Why cant Jiraiya do the same? He almost defeated Pain. Also, Danzo was strong but that doesnt mean he is in the top 10, in fact he physical power was weak and he rely on Ninjutsu for everything.

And no kages retreat from Sasuke. And he was no near to kill Ay 4th Raikage. In fact he was destroying Taka Team. Orochimaru can mold a little senjutsu but not enter to sage mode. And by feats Kabuto was playing with Itachi and Sasuke, it took Itachi use a jutsu to defeat Kabuto. But Sage Mode made very strong Kabuto having more powerful stats, it was just Itachi's intelligence and jutsu that one the battle.

 

[kiiro]

I am not very sure about what you said here.
Are you saying that base sharingan is better than Mangeykyou in terms of predicting/fast speed combat?
Also wasn't Sasuke struggling to see Killer Bee and 4th Raikage's move?

No, I said that Sharingan and Sage Mode boost your base power. So it all depends on your base level. The Sasuke that fought Ay was to weak for him, so the Adult Sasuke might not even need Mangekyo Sharingan just basic sharingan. I forgot to put "Adult Sasuke" in my sentence.

Also, Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan has the same predicting/fast speed combat like you say. Mangekyo Sharingan just gives you the 3 basic jutsus we know plus stronger genjutsus.

 

[TheMask]

No, I said that Sharingan and Sage Mode boost your base power. So it all depends on your base level. The Sasuke that fought Ay was to weak for him, so the Adult Sasuke might not even need Mangekyo Sharingan just basic sharingan. I forgot to put "Adult Sasuke" in my sentence.

Also, Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan has the same predicting/fast speed combat like you say. Mangekyo Sharingan just gives you the 3 basic jutsus we know plus stronger genjutsus.

That makes lot of sense. But i amn't very sure about adult argument. Kakashi is known to use sharingan really well and only has stamina issues. He too cannot forsee Lee's movements in Part-1. So it could stand to reason that without 6 paths Sasuke might still be in the same boat.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Why cant Jiraiya do the same? He almost defeated Pain. Also, Danzo was strong but that doesnt mean he is in the top 10, in fact he physical power was weak and he rely on Ninjutsu for everything.

Pain didn't use shinra tensei or chibaku tensei against Jiraiya. You telling me Jiraiya can counter that or fight Ay and Gaara at the same time? I know Danzo is nothing special but he's strong enough to be kage candidate just like jiraiya and he has KA+wood style.

And no kages retreat from Sasuke. And he was no near to kill Ay 4th Raikage. In fact he was destroying Taka Team.

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Orochimaru can mold a little senjutsu but not enter to sage mode. And by feats Kabuto was playing with Itachi and Sasuke, it took Itachi use a jutsu to defeat Kabuto. But Sage Mode made very strong Kabuto having more powerful stats, it was just Itachi's intelligence and jutsu that one the battle.

Orochimaru is an incomplete Sage mode user but you're not wrong. You're completely right but you're also leaving some details out for Kabuto as well.
Kabuto acquired powers that are not from Dsm such as the sound fours kekkai genkai/secret arts, suigestsu's clan powers, uzamaki healing, and kaguya clan bones.
So you cannot use all of Kabuto's arsenal as a means for Dsm otherwise you should except itachi's intellect and convenient justu as a counter.
You understand where I'm coming from right?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

The fight with Sasuke had too many exceptions to begin with. He basically ambushes 5 kages at very favorable time especially when Danzo is missing Shisui's prowess. On top of that he didn't get to fight those Sideline Jonin who could have easily finished him off with suicide attacks But Obito gets rid off them. Also A has an emotional problem at that time. Just in the previous fight Bee showed Sasuke and Taka who was the boss and he is just lucky that A was reckless. In fact Sasuke couldn't even leave a dent on Gaara/ Mizukage/ Onoi for this reason. Danzo ran-off before the scandal about ITachi could be revealed which would make Hidden Leaf even more suspicious.

Ay ambushed Sasuke with intel and Sasuke was the one that left Ay with a missing arm and nearly lost his life if not for Gaara's interference.
Sasuke took out Cee too and without Shisui's ocular prowess that can one shot virtually all shinobis, Danzo is still strong enough to be a kage candidate. Sasuke beat incomplete izanagi and Danzo's wood style.

I think so Jiraiya is more than capable of replicating this feat. In fact If I were to put Sage Jiraiya in Sasuke's place(starting with Sage Mode that is), I would say that he can easily take care of 4 of the Kages. The only one he should have trouble is with Onoki and his Dust release.

Jiraiya cannot beat 4 kages at the same time, he can beat 1 kage but 2 of them is too much for him. I like Jiraiya but there's no way that he's strong enough to beat 4 kages if he couldn't beat 3 pain bodies. If pain were to go up against 4-5 kages at the same time, he would need all 6 bodies fighting extreme diff just to win. 3 bodies against 4-5 kages and pain is getting his ass whooped.

With Regards to Orochimaru, He lost his Jutsus and ITachi without doubt is sologod. If you are seriously comapring him with his super buffed weapons probably god-ier will trembe before him.

I thought Hashirama's SM is from Frog's. Could be wrong.
So you are saying To beat Rinnegan one will at least require Six-Path Senjutsu?

Yes rinnegan will require six path senjutsu because both of them use six path powers.
Hashirama doesn't have Frog Sm, and he doesn't have a Frog contract either. He's never shown Frog Fist too.

 

[kiiro]

Pain didn't use shinra tensei or chibaku tensei against Jiraiya. You telling me Jiraiya can counter that or fight Ay and Gaara at the same time? I know Danzo is nothing special but he's strong enough to be kage candidate just like jiraiya and he has KA+wood style.

Well you are right,but I can see Jiraiya being more stronger than that Sasuke.

Spoiler

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True, but it was Cee who said it, not the Kages. Also, Gaara interfered to help. Every Kage was aiming to Kill Sasuke, not to retreat. But Sasuke was lucky and could flee.

Orochimaru is an incomplete Sage mode user but you're not wrong. You're completely right but you're also leaving some details out for Kabuto as well.
Kabuto acquired powers that are not from Dsm such as the sound fours kekkai genkai/secret arts, suigestsu's clan powers, uzamaki healing, and kaguya clan bones.
So you cannot use all of Kabuto's arsenal as a means for Dsm otherwise you should except itachi's intellect and convenient justu as a counter.
You understand where I'm coming from right?

I understand you. He gain their jutsus, not their stats. Or that is what I think. That plus more chakra to attain Sage Mode.

 

[Scryed]

SM is more of a multiplier with a few qualities of its own. It's effectiveness is practically dependent on the abilities you already have similar to Six Paths Chakra. The unique qualities it has seem to be more defensive based while it's offense involves your amplified techniques.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Well you are right,but I can see Jiraiya being more stronger than that Sasuke.

I personally don't because of his feats. But the Kage thing aside because a lot of people have there opinions on that matter. Sasuke fought Killerbee with Team Taka. Team Taka got their ass whooped sure, but Sasuke came in with an Amatersu that burned away a full body Hachibi in a fight.

Now Jiraiya against full Hachibi, what's your opinion on that?

True, but it was Cee who said it, not the Kages. Also, Gaara interfered to help. Every Kage was aiming to Kill Sasuke, not to retreat. But Sasuke was lucky and could flee.

Ay was hiding behind the pillar while Cee gave the sand folks the warning, so that really doesn't help your case. I know that the Kages were aiming to kill Sasuke but they all failed to do so. He fought 2 kages with their body guards which is an impressive feat.
Jiraiya/Sm Naruto(without six tails) cannot survive all of this:

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The defense of Susanoo is too strong for Jiraiya/Sm Naruto and amatersu can literally burn everything in Frog Sage modes arsenal.

I understand you. He gain their jutsus, not their stats. Or that is what I think. That plus more chakra to attain Sage Mode.

He did gain their states too because transplanting people's blood/tissue into your body increases your physical energy and chakra. Madara/Obito/Danzo/Yamato chakra went up when he implanted hashi tissues and so did Hebi Sasuke's chakra went up he absorbed Orochimaru chakra w/implanted Sm chakra from Jugo too.

Kabuto needed to increase his states and chakra in order for him to gain Sm in the first place.

 

[Mori Jin]

Strong enough to hurt a Juubi Jinchuuriki.

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[Nick01]

Depends and varies from user to user and the type of SM used. Most are at least on par or above MS.

Strong enough to hurt a Juubi Jinchuuriki.

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These and based on what we've seen it's save to say that it's definitely above MS.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

I don't think it's as strong as you'd believe. Most of the abilities used with it are complementary or require help from the summons. Then there's the part where the user has to have already been decent enough to master it. I'd put the powerup somewhere around MS level pre-susanoo. Early part 2 Naruto wasn't anything special compared to Akatsuki and he ended up rivaling the Paths with the mode


6.

Imagine if someone like Asuma or Gai had gotten Sage Mode.

 

[Mori Jin]

These and based on what we've seen it's save to say that it's definitely above MS.

It's obviously stronger then an MS user. No Sage Mode user has ever lost to an MS user.

 

[wanderingcactus]

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Yin path (Hagoromo)
Yin: MS
Yang: Sage Mode

Yang path (Hamura)
Yin: Byakugan
Yang: Chakra Cloak

Sage mode is a bit iffy as it can be gained via contract instead of being a KKG

why do I say Sage mode is a tech of the oostustuki?

Hagoromo had it (his forhead)

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same with Hashirama's

no, that isn't the rinnesharingan as this was when Hamura and Hagoromo were fighting Kaguya

Also Kishi retcons a lot. Hamura was not there initially, nor was Kaguya. It was only Hagoromo.

also if we look at Momoshiki after he ate Kinshiki

 

[To Whatever]

Pain didn't use shinra tensei or chibaku tensei against Jiraiya. You telling me Jiraiya can counter that or fight Ay and Gaara at the same time? I know Danzo is nothing special but he's strong enough to be kage candidate just like jiraiya and he has KA+wood style.

Spoiler

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Orochimaru is an incomplete Sage mode user but you're not wrong. You're completely right but you're also leaving some details out for Kabuto as well.
Kabuto acquired powers that are not from Dsm such as the sound fours kekkai genkai/secret arts, suigestsu's clan powers, uzamaki healing, and kaguya clan bones.
So you cannot use all of Kabuto's arsenal as a means for Dsm otherwise you should except itachi's intellect and convenient justu as a counter.
You understand where I'm coming from right?

Gaara was trying to (did) stop the fight

C was trying to keep Ay and Sasuke from continuing the fight by recommending they retreat.

Sasuke left to find Danzo by destroying the building.

 

[Nerosmoke]

On a scale of 1 to 10, How far do you think Sage Mode User can go against OP opponents/God-Tier?

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Consider following categories:

• Mangeykyou Sharingan User

• Rinnegan User

• Eternal Mangeykyou User

Assume that these users haven't been "buffed up".

Not as Strong as AO.

 

[Hunty]

Strong .

 

[Uverdore9]

Why cant Jiraiya do the same? He almost defeated Pain. Also, Danzo was strong but that doesnt mean he is in the top 10, in fact he physical power was weak and he rely on Ninjutsu for everything.

And no kages retreat from Sasuke. And he was no near to kill Ay 4th Raikage. In fact he was destroying Taka Team. Orochimaru can mold a little senjutsu but not enter to sage mode. And by feats Kabuto was playing with Itachi and Sasuke, it took Itachi use a jutsu to defeat Kabuto. But Sage Mode made very strong Kabuto having more powerful stats, it was just Itachi's intelligence and jutsu that one the battle.

Itachi was the one playing with kabuto. He held back not using non eye contact genjutsu and tsukiyomi and Totsuka Yata.


Kabuto couldnt keep up with speed as the exclamation marks suggest.


Edit: If you actually think Jiraiya can beat MS Sasuke, debate me.