How much of an advantage do ambush and preparations offer?

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Looking at how Kakashi treated Itachi in both their clashes, it seems he didn't respect him much.

First against him in the Hidden Leaf, Kakashi expected to handle him while his allies had their eyes closed. Then with Chiyo, he considered his chances for victory to be guranteed simply because of his teammates (Naruto and Sasuke) who had almost no teamwork experience in recent times. This despitehim acknowledging a knowledge disadvantage of massive proportions.


The thing is, as far as Kakashi knew, Itachi had defeated the entire Uchiha clan, with standout members like Fugaku among them. That's not just a single clan, but one of the strongest. While we know Itachi had help and that Fugaku didn't fight, Kakashi didn't know that. And he can't have thought of himself as some super powered guy as Naruto and Sakura were still in the action and at risk. So him working with them to take out Itachi (he didn't know it was a clone) suggests he thought that team was enough.


That then says that he either thinks such a team is enough to take out an entire clan or that he assumes Itachi had some major advantage. Accounting for the fact that it was never an open battle and Kakashi is not naive, he probably assumed that Itachi used stealth and strategy against them. In other words, he thought that an ambush provided the big advantage.


So Kakashi thinks an ambush (and maybe a little preparation) can allow one man to defeat a group that consists of hundreds of others that are similar to them.




Other cases of ambush being respected include the SPoP attack on the Hidden Leaf, Sasuke attacking Orochimaru and Kakashi himself. The SPoP attack, wherein they used a surprise tactic which implies that they didn't think a direct assault would be successful, had them expecting an ambush to give them an advantage over the most powerful organisation in the world. Sasuke expected an ambush to give him a win over Orochimaru who he later confessed would've trashed him if not sick and Suigetsu himself said the victory came down to opportunityand any of them (Team Hebi) could have taken out Orochimaru. Kakashi uses a tactic of sending out clones to evaluate an opponent and then rushing at them in a surprise attack. All these cases show ambush being a highly and openly respected tactic within the story, by characters with vast knowledge of battle and shinobi abilities.




So just how much of an advantage does a successful ambush give someone in battle?
 

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good thread and subject to talk about..

"..So just how much of an advantage does a successful ambush give someone in battle????.."

tat was ur kestion right???..

depence on godlike powerz u have...

in naroto world there's like realistic and non realistic powerz...

realistic is like taijutsu..fighting skills.. usage of weaponz..and art of ambushing and battle techniques ..

non realisitc powerz is like chakra ... dojutsu and ninjusu...

so my point is if u have god like powerz like dojusu and ninjusu teh chances of escaping a ambush is higher... FOR exenple : can u ambush someone like tobi who can use kamui and slip through ur bait and ambush plan???...

but also wait...didn't konan already figure out a way how to anbush tobi kamui when she sunk him with sea of paperz???..

dont that mean that art of ambush can still defy godlike powerz in naroto world????..
 
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good thread and subject to talk about..

"..So just how much of an advantage does a successful ambush give someone in battle????.."

tat was ur kestion right???..

depence on godlike powerz u have...

in naroto world there's like realistic and non realistic powerz...

realistic is like taijutsu..fighting skills.. usage of weaponz..and art of ambushing and battle techniques ..

non realisitc powerz is like chakra ... dojutsu and ninjusu...

so my point is if u have god like powerz like dojusu and ninjusu teh chances of escaping a ambush is higher... FOR exenple : can u ambush someone like tobi who can use kamui and slip through ur bait and ambush plan???...

but also wait...didn't konan already figure out a way how to anbush tobi kamui when she sunk him with sea of paperz???..


dont that mean that art of ambush can still defy godlike powerz in naroto world????..
Mina San you answed a thick wall of text, niceeeeee!
 

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it was interesting thoughts so i had to respond...what iz ur opinion about thread????..
Ambush and preparation is super powerful, it can for sure turn the tide in a battle, against a stronger opponent, like for example if someone fought Edi Tensei unprepared it would be harder than if they knew about Edo Tensei and could defeat it like Itachi did.
 
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Ambush and preparation is super powerful, it can for sure turn the tide in a battle, against a stronger opponent, like for example if someone fought Edi Tensei unprepared it would be harder than if they knew about Edo Tensei and could defeat it like Itachi did.
but still it's hard to anbush shinobis like madara and hashirama who were born in war era...there experience with wars and battles made them expert of seeing through enbushes...madara was called warrior too..

also i not sure if konoha teach embush lessons in shinobi academy..
 
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but still it's hard to anbush shinobis like madara and hashirama who were born in war era...there experience with wars and battles made them expert of seeing through enbushes...madara was called warrior too..

also i not sure if konoha teach embush lessons in shinobi academy..
True, but they would know how to counter that stuff, but still, Tobirama died cus they got trapped by like 20 people or something, so even someone powerful can fail in certain situations.
 
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Infant

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good thread and subject to talk about..

"..So just how much of an advantage does a successful ambush give someone in battle????.."

tat was ur kestion right???..

depence on godlike powerz u have...

in naroto world there's like realistic and non realistic powerz...

realistic is like taijutsu..fighting skills.. usage of weaponz..and art of ambushing and battle techniques ..

non realisitc powerz is like chakra ... dojutsu and ninjusu...

so my point is if u have god like powerz like dojusu and ninjusu teh chances of escaping a ambush is higher... FOR exenple : can u ambush someone like tobi who can use kamui and slip through ur bait and ambush plan???...

but also wait...didn't konan already figure out a way how to anbush tobi kamui when she sunk him with sea of paperz???..


dont that mean that art of ambush can still defy godlike powerz in naroto world????..
Thank you, especially for your answer.


There are limits on both sides on both ends. Every skill and technique has a minimum and maximum utility, this allows preparation to be made beforehand against them, if these limits are known.


but still it's hard to anbush shinobis like madara and hashirama who were born in war era...there experience with wars and battles made them expert of seeing through enbushes...madara was called warrior too..

also i not sure if konoha teach embush lessons in shinobi academy..
I remember the Ino vs Sakura flashback had a part where they were taught spying and undercover work.


Logically, that should also include anti-ambush skills, since a spy can be caught unawares.



True, but they would know how to counter that stuff, but still, Tobirama died cus they got trapped by like 20 people or something, so even someone powerful can fail in certain situations.
I think that was more a case of being caught than of being ambushed.


Tobirama himself seemed to acknowledge the strength of the opponents more than the stipulations of the situation they were caught up in.
 
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but still it's hard to anbush shinobis like madara and hashirama who were born in war era...there experience with wars and battles made them expert of seeing through enbushes...madara was called warrior too..

also i not sure if konoha teach embush lessons in shinobi academy..
Wot about shikamaru planning a way to get rid of hidan.

It works with certain shinobi but when you have overpowered characters, you can plan all you want, its gonna do jack though.

I quoted you because it's not letting me do regular replies aye.
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Infant

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Wot about shikamaru planning a way to get rid of hidan.

It works with certain shinobi but when you have overpowered characters, you can plan all you want, its gonna do jack though.

I quoted you because it's not letting me do regular replies aye.
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The way i see it, if you've got overpowered characters, just plan to pit them against each other.


There should also be overpowered elements in the environment which power them up, so you could use those elements or their naturally occuring counterparts. For example, Kashin Koji using natural fire from some mountains can be countered by natural water from some lakes.
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So ultimately, power cancels itself out to bring fights down into the realm and scope of tactics and tricks.
 

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I think in p1 manga shikamaru say that genin lvl can beat chonin lvl with ambush attack...

this make me wonder if sakura uchiwa could beat isshiki with ambush sleeping gas attack

jigen>saskey but uchiwa managed to surprise kick no jutsu him... why didnt he try to behead him?!?!??!

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Infant

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I think in p1 manga shikamaru say that genin lvl can beat chonin lvl with ambush attack...

this make me wonder if sakura uchiwa could beat isshiki with ambush sleeping gas attack

jigen>saskey but uchiwa managed to surprise kick no jutsu him... why didnt he try to behead him?!?!??!

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Most peronal powers are too restrained by the user to be able to get far against someone much stronger. For example, a clone feint from Kakashi would be too slow against V2 Raikage.


However, prep work has a much broader range of effect. For example, if Jiraiya does not detect it, a setup can be done with poison gas, even by a genin.


So if we assume that Isshiki would not recognise it as a danger, he could fall for a poison gas trap. I think that he doesn't have enough experience with different types of gasses to differentiate basic smoke bomb from poison smoke.
 
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