They always do concession accepted to act tough but in real life they must be really sore losers who feel so damn pathetic about themselves they've to vent thier frustrations on the Internet. I even posted some 5 scans which implies and even literally states Hiruzen is the top of everything as in every category and stronger than the entire kages, leaf or foreign. Iruka does say hiruzen has better strength compared to all kage and hiruzen doesnt deny this fact. If he had denied it, then okay there's an argument. Hiruzen is not a show off or attention seeker as far as I know to allow bluffing in his presence.
That's not how it works. Don't put horse before the cart. I don't know if she used it or not. I don't pay that much attention to manga. But are you talking about Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven when you say 'rotation'?
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mentions that in anime shippuden episode 428 The Genjutsu World version of Hinata Hyūga is able to use this technique. Meaning she cannot do it in real one.
Can you show a scan where she performed it or it's stated she can in real world version of Narutoverse? Then post it and let them know the source of the claim and shut them up for good and only way to end this argument. And if they still deny it I will treat them as trolls.
If not then stop spamming the thread with repetitive circular argument because you cannot claim a skill/feat or ability that's not mentioned anywhere. You can only state your opinion in that case but not force others to accept it but agree to disagree and move on.
And stop posting " concession accepted" when other party hasn't. It's either pretty stupid or trolling and instigating others in pointless arguments.
Hinata is called a Gentle Fist master in The Last, and the manga Chapter 101 says those who are Gentle Fist masters can use Rotation. While, yes, she has not shown it, it's not that brain draining to see how these two statements support Hinata clearly having Rotation, though not at the time of the war obviously.
Problem is people want to argue with scans only while dismissing common sense and reasoning. Like Lee obviously having Morning Peacock due to having 6th Gate, even though it is never shown or Kaguya obviously having all the powers of the Beasts (Boil, Lava, Wood) despite not necessarily using them. Same logic applies to Hinata being labeled a Gentle Fist master and having Rotation.
I love these guys are ignoring hiruzen scans and babbling around like the winning factor is still in thier side. There's no proof that translation which is *********** translation, is correct, show me the viz and we'll concede.
I love these guys are ignoring hiruzen scans and babbling around like the winning factor is still in thier side. There's no proof that translation which is *********** translation, is correct, show me the viz and we'll concede.
That's not how it works. Don't put horse before the cart. I don't know if she used it or not. I don't pay that much attention to manga. But are talking about Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven when you see rotation?
Hiashi never used TLF same with Hanabi ( 32/64 palms ), does that mean they can't? Of course not.
#Bold Yes.
Narutopedia mentions that in anime shippuden episode 428 The Genjutsu World version of Hinata Hyūga is able to use this technique. Meaning she cannot do it in real one.
Is that your only argument, do you realize that EP428 = filler?
Hinata can perform Rotation in Boruto SD, should I take it as a canon feat :elmo:
Can you show a scan where she performed it or it's stated she can in real world version of Narutoverse? Then post it and let them know the source of the claim and shut them up for good and only way to end this argument. And if they still deny it I will treat them as trolls.
Gentle Fist master = emit chakra from his/her entire body
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It's just common sense tbh
If not then stop spamming the thread with repetitive circular argument because you cannot claim a skill/feat or ability that's not mentioned anywhere. You can only state your opinion in that case but not force others to accept it but agree to disagree and move on.
Not "spamming" but manga statements that support Hinata having Rotation and something that could be considered as spamming is Salamander spamming his GIF.
Does Naruto co late her strength to somebody to show it's relative level?
No it does not. Neji could have used Rotation to save Naruto and Hinata, Lee could have used 5th Gate to break out of Water Prison, Kaguya could have used 1 trillion abilities to one-shot Team 7, Naruto could have summoned Gamabunta to pound Sasuke's ass in VOTE 1. Like I said, stop beinghypocritical with your arguments, it's laughable.
Several more lines of BS because you can't address the points put to you. All those abilities have clearly been demonstrated by the users of them Hinata hasn't demonstrated these abilities thays the difference. Read the words slowly and try to process them perhaps they'll sink in.
And she is also confirmed to be GF master thus can use all Chakra points anyways.
Still waiting on you to show the scan of her doing so ?
No he doesn't copy Hashirama's techniques, he would need to see Hashirama fighting with his Sharingan on to actually do that, which he never would have gotten the opportunity to do after taking his DNA nor did we ever see any scans or hear any statements of this happening.
the response. I suggest you learn how the Sharingan works it memorised everything and the user can use the jutsu once they meet the requirements. Unless you want to tell us how Madara learnt to use the same Mokuton as they never went face to face again.
Yes he does, as the DB says 6th Gate grants this power.
Except Wall Palm also releases Chakra from the arms and not the whole body, yet it is more advanced than Rotation as Neji could never learn it and had to depend on Hinata for it. In short, flawed logic and reasoning as always.
Releasing chakra from one limb is a jonin level + feat releasing from all over it beyond that we know what is advanced and what isn't. Jutsu comparison will be a whole other topic(off topic)and will take into account many variable factors.
Now show the feat of Hinata performing rotation and stop going off topic or diverting. I expect a scan or a databook entry mentioning rotation as 1 of her skills or a link to 1 of the canon movies cobfirming as such.
Hinata is called a Gentle Fist master in The Last, and the manga Chapter 101 says those who are Gentle Fist masters can use Rotation. While, yes, she has not shown it, it's not that brain draining to see how these two statements support Hinata clearly having Rotation, though not at the time of the war obviously.
Problem is people want to argue with scans only while dismissing common sense and reasoning. Like Lee obviously having Morning Peacock due to having 6th Gate, even though it is never shown or Kaguya obviously having all the powers of the Beasts (Boil, Lava, Wood) despite not necessarily using them. Same logic applies to Hinata being labeled a Gentle Fist master and having Rotation.
Hinata is called a Gentle Fist master in The Last, and the manga Chapter 101 says those who are Gentle Fist masters can use Rotation. While, yes, she has not shown it, it's not that brain draining to see how these two statements support Hinata clearly having Rotation, though not at the time of the war obviously.
Problem is people want to argue with scans only while dismissing common sense and reasoning. Like Lee obviously having Morning Peacock due to having 6th Gate, even though it is never shown or Kaguya obviously having all the powers of the Beasts (Boil, Lava, Wood) despite not necessarily using them. Same logic applies to Hinata being labeled a Gentle Fist master and having Rotation.
The Last is a lot of fan service and not everything it states is in line with manga. They tried to keep it as canon as possible but that doesn't mean it overrides manga. But even if we accept that title it's not enough to support your claim.
The chapter 101 does NOT say that a master knows this tech even remotely. It specifically states that it was a technique passed down to Hyuga heir house which Neji mastered on his own- without being taught.
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Meaning her being called a master is irrelevant unless you can show us she is the hyuga heir and her father passed the tech to her. Which doesn't seem to be the case.
So you are basically misinforming me. Deliberately. While you pretend to use logic and implying it's other who are being stupid. This is what trolling is and you cannot continue it this way. Because your conclusion is that since she is called master she must have it and you made up the other condition on your own and declared it's in the manga. That logic of yours uses more bending than all Kamsutra positions together.
Narutowiki hasn't included it as one her jutsus either. If they have not edited it to include that tech means a hell lot of people are not ready to accept your personal interpretations.
So I will suggest you stop playing games and stop letting fan fantasies interfere in way of actual debates.
I'm tired of ridiculous amount of reports when members are engaging in this kind of debating themselves. So both parties need to start behaving before we go in zero tolerance mode.
The Last is a lot of fan service and not everything it states is in line with manga. They tried to keep it as canon as possible but that doesn't mean it overrides manga.
Canon is still canon regardless of fan service or things being in line with the manga. Even the manga is not in line with the manga at times, so using this as an argument holds no weight. Not to mention Hinata is also again called a GF master in Part 3, so this statement clearly isn't fan service or being ignored in the manga.
And no chapter 101 doesn't say that even remotely.
Except that was in Part 1, and Part 3 and even Part 2 confirm the Hyuga are/have changed.
Meaning her being called a master is irrelevant unless you can show us she is the hyuga heir and her father passed the tech to her. Which doesn't seem to be the case.
It isn't because being called that means she can use all of her Chakra Points.
So you are basically misinforming me. Deliberately. While you pretend to use logic and implying it's other who are being stupid. This is what trolling is.
Narutowiki hasn't included it as one her jutsus either. If they have not edited it to include that tech means a hell lot of people are not ready to accept your personal interpretations.
The wiki also lists Bolt as a GF user when that's not the case yet doesn't list Kaguya as aGF user despite it being said the Hyuga learned the style from it being passed down from her.
I'm fine with that, but I will argue what I believe.
So I will suggest you stop playing games and stop letting fan fantasies interfere in way of actual debates.
You read it here first according to LB opening the gates automatically gives you the ability to use the jutsu without learning it first.
Nah it's on topic since this is about Hanabi and also displays your hypocrisy in moaning about scans while ignoring logic while at the same time saying how Hanabi has 64 Palms/Tenseigan despite no scans.
If you can show where I've brought up Hanabi using 64 palms or Tenseigan in this thread, I'll concede.
If it takes into account many variables, why do you say TLF is inferior to Rotation despite having shape, defensive, and absorption properties? How is that any different than Wall Palm being superior to Rotation in complexity as shown by Neji not knowing the former? Oh wait, this is another hypocritical statement that is only being used to suit your narrative, my bad.
Off topic and it's inferior and now that you've brought TLF up again can I see the databook entry confirming that TFL is an S rank jutsu.
I'd like a scan of Hanabi having 64 Palms/Tenseigan, Naruto not being an Uzumaki, Ootsutsukis being weak, and Shisui being able to defeat Minato with KA he has no feats with. If not, I'm not dealing with your hypocrisy anymore and you can just assume I concede.
Off topic again why do you mix spam into the responses. This tacric is emplyed purposefully by individuals to derail threadd when they cant bring proof.
I'm still waiting on the scan or databook entry listing rotation as 1 of Hinata's abilities.If you concede then I accept gladly now don't bring up fanfic again.
There's no viz scan saying hinata mastered sh*t let alone rotation and stuff, though there indeed is a freaking viz scan saying hiruzen >>>> Hashirama( equal to madara), tobirama(Fastest in madara era), minato(fastest due to ftg.) Lmfao. LmFAO. And stronger than 3RD, ONOKI, YAGURA, THIRD KAZEKAGE LMFAO. LMFAO LMFAO. STop your trolling attempts hyuga fanboys. Its not gonna work with me.
Then wouldn't that mean 64 palms is > both rotation and TLF? Also, Neji still wasn't going to be heir in part 2 as far as i know. But Neo you're using the fact that Hinata didn't show rotation in the war as a basis to show that Rotation is the pinnacle of Gentle fist techniques? It doesn't seem right especially seeing as Rotation is orally taught and based on Hyuga laws at least at the time, she had no right to know the technique.
64 palm>>Rotation/TLF only in the Taijutsu skill/movement it takes to learn it. Which is why Hinata messed up despite having TLF. A single hit from 64 palms = a single basic Tenketsu strike. Rotation=Gentle fist chakra control mastery. 64 palms does not as it requires physical skills and the right movements to use. Pain arc Hinata was skilled enough in Gentle fist Chakra control to use TLF , but lacked the physical skill and correct movements to use 64 palms but could clearly still hit Tenketsu.
-By this Hyuuga law logic Neji should never even be training under Hiashi.But Its clear that things changed so this no rights logic doesn't work , and no reason under the sun can prove to me why Hinata wouldn't want to learn that ultimate defense or why Hiashi/Neji never tried teaching her something that would save her life and others.
Tenten doesn't make the distinction and treats both techniques the same. She says that Neji's true show of geniues lies within his mastery of 64 Palms, meaning Rotation is less impressive than 64 Palms in terms of complexity/difficulty. Whether or not 64 Palms grants usage of all 361 Chakra Points is irrelevant because I am not arguing that.
She says that Neji's true show of strength is just beginning and Rotation wa the start. Neji used Rotation on Naruto with no damage. Thats Neji's "Defense" ntn else as said by Tenten at the bottom panel.
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Tenten then says Neji is about to show his true show of strength , which is his offensive capability. Which makes sense since he just showed only his defense beforehand.
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Thats means Neji is about to show his full power via 64 palm , after he already showed us his defense. So Rotation+64 palms is his true show of power , and not just him showing Rotation by itself since him having Rotation alone wasn't his true show of power as that wasn't all , which is why Tenten said "and thats not the end of it". "It" refers to Neji's strength meaning Rotation isn't the end of his strength and that him also showing 64 palms along with it is his true showing of strength. Thats as simple as it gets and i hope i dont have to make it any more clear. but will if need be.
I never argued Hinata was a GF master. I am simply arguing that 64 Palms is a more difficult technique/use to learn than Rotation as shown by Tenten's statement.
But how can 64 palms be more difficult to lean/use when u need Master level GF Chakra control to use Rotation , not 64 palms which only takes the right skill and movements?. Hinata clearly wasn't a Master at the start of p2 nor the end so ur not making sense here.
No, it isn't irrelevant. Air Palm and Wall Palm are available to the Branch Family, meaning one can potentially have one of them, like Hizashi who is Hiashi's equal, know Wall Palm without knowing Rotation. Meaning Wall Palm is more complex than Rotation.
Even if we assumed Hizashi had it , doesn't change the fact that the greatest Genius in Hyuga history couldn't use it by 18 , so pretty sure both brothers at Neji's age never had the tech if he didn't w/Training no less. Wall palm is more complexed than Rotation and thats a "Fact" proven with evidence. 64 palms being more complexed than Rotation in anything other than Taijutsu movement skills isn't a fact.
Rotation=Mastery of GF Chakra control.
64 palms= Mastery of GF Taijutsu movement as it doesn't require nearly the amount of control needed for Rotation.
If someone can pull off 32 palms "Physically" , it doesn't mean that person can pull off releasing Chakra from the whole body. If somone can use TLF , that alone doesn't prove that the person can use 64 palms. Why because it takes a mastery in a completely different field to do so as per manga illustrations.
No where stated or implied = not fact. Neji was a genius of the hyuga, someone like hinata who is a lesser intellectual character than even someone five years younger than hanabi as hiashi considered her a disgrace proves she wont master it before or any time near hanabi has mastered it. Lmfao.
64 palm>>Rotation/TLF only in the Taijutsu skill/movement it takes to learn it. Which is why Hinata messed up. A single hit from 64 palms = a single basic Tenketsu strike. Rotation=Gentle fist chakra controling mastery. 64 palms does not as it requires more physical skills to use. Pain arc Hinata was skilled enough in Gentle fist Chakra control to use TLF , but lacked the physical skill and correct movements to use 64 palms.
By this Hyuuga law logic Neji should never even be training under Hiashi.But Its clear that things changed , and no reason under the sun can prove to me why Hinata wouldn't want to learn that ultimate defense or why Hiashi/Neji never tried teaching her something that would save her life and others.
The databook entry says Rotation is an application of Gentle fist. Every Hyuga uses Gentle fist so why do only two members know Rotation? Its because something must be said about the process and only Neji has figured out what that is. Rotation is literally expelling chakra then spinning.. what else could be said to assist in the mastery of rotation? The only logical thing here imo is how to utilize all tenketsu.. Meaning if that is known, expelling chakra should be easy..
Do you really believe the process of expelling chakra then spinning is more difficult in complexity to 64 palms as a whole or even 64 palms + TLF that also utilizes delicate CC?
And that bold.. you really believe Hinata tried learning Rotation before the war and it took her until she was 30 something to finally be able to use it?
Lmfao. Hinata is not a genius so yeah it will take her upto 30 years to master it lmfao. Genius = faster mastery, neji then hanabi then far away in another continent stays hinata. Don't you even know that hyuga's expel thier physical energy along with chakra and then spin it? Why do you think kidomaru was surprised when neji blocked an arrow with just his chakra? Are you being totally ridiculous here. Lmfao. These hyiga fans always know how to cross the borders lmfao.
Expelling chakra is not the difficult thing, it's expelling physical energy and chakra.
64 palm>>Rotation/TLF only in the Taijutsu skill/movement it takes to learn it. Which is why Hinata messed up despite having TLF. A single hit from 64 palms = a single basic Tenketsu strike. Rotation=Gentle fist chakra control mastery. 64 palms does not as it requires physical skills and the right movements to use. Pain arc Hinata was skilled enough in Gentle fist Chakra control to use TLF , but lacked the physical skill and correct movements to use 64 palms but could clearly still hit Tenketsu.
-By this Hyuuga law logic Neji should never even be training under Hiashi.But Its clear that things changed so this no rights logic doesn't work , and no reason under the sun can prove to me why Hinata wouldn't want to learn that ultimate defense or why Hiashi/Neji never tried teaching her something that would save her life and others.
She says that Neji's true show of strength is just beginning and Rotation wa the start. Neji used Rotation on Naruto with no damage. Thats Neji's "Defense" ntn else as said by Tenten at the bottom panel.
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Tenten then says Neji is about to show his true show of strength , which is his offensive capability. Which makes sense since he just showed only his defense beforehand.
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Thats means Neji is about to show his full power via 64 palm , after he already showed us his defense. So Rotation+64 palms is his true show of power , and not just him showing Rotation by itself since him having Rotation alone wasn't his true show of power as that wasn't all , which is why Tenten said "and thats not the end of it". "It" refers to Neji's strength meaning Rotation isn't the end of his strength and that him also showing 64 palms along with it is his true showing of strength. Thats as simple as it gets and i hope i dont have to make it any more clear. but will if need be.
Doesn't really matter as a good amount of time passed , people clearly trained for the War anyway.
Exactly , so why would 64 palms be harder to learn when u have to be a master of Gentle fist Chakra control to use Rotation?
But how can 64 palms be more difficult to lean/use when u need Master level GF Chakra control to use Rotation , not 64 palms which only takes the right skill and movements?. Hinata clearly wasn't a Master at the start of p2 nor the end so ur not making sense here.
Even if we assumed Hizashi had it , doesn't change the fact that the greatest Genius in Hyuga history couldn't use it by 18 , so pretty sure both brothers at Neji's age never had the tech if he didn't w/Training no less. Wall palm is more complexed than Rotation and thats a "Fact" proven with evidence. 64 palms being more complexed than Rotation in anything other than Taijutsu movement skills isn't a fact.
Rotation=Mastery of GF Chakra control.
64 palms= Mastery of GF Taijutsu movement as it doesn't require nearly the amount of control needed for Rotation.
If someone can pull off 32 palms "Physically" , it doesn't mean that person can pull off releasing Chakra from the whole body. If somone can use TLF , that alone doesn't prove that the person can use 64 palms. Why because it takes a mastery in a completely different field to do so as per manga illustrations.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but a 64-hit combo against tiny targets would naturally be harder to pull off then using all tenktesu and spinning. IDK, I'm thinking the two can't really be compared given one uses speed, taijutsy, and reflexes while the other uses Chakra Control.
I will just leave it at that until we get new information, but I will simply say that for now, Wall Palm and Twin Lion Fists are really the only Gentle Fist techniques shown or said to be difficult to learn.
It comes from Kishimoto if you can understand how manga story telling works. And unless Kishimoto has another character disprove that statement, your point will remain meaningless.
The databook entry says Rotation is an application of Gentle fist. Every Hyuga uses Gentle fist so why do only two members know Rotation? Its because something must be said about the process and only Neji has figured out what that is. Rotation is literally expelling chakra then spinning.. what else could be said to assist in the mastery of rotation? The only logical thing here imo is how to utilize all tenketsu.. Meaning if that is known, expelling chakra should be easy..
Do you really believe the process of expelling chakra then spinning is more difficult in complexity to 64 palms as a whole or even 64 palms + TLF that also utilizes delicate CC?
And that bold.. you really believe Hinata tried learning Rotation before the war and it took her until she was 30 something to finally be able to use it?
This just goes to show that expeling Chakra from the whole body isn't as easy for Hyugas as people think, which is why only Neji in the history of the clan figured how to do it on his own. If the process of learning how to expel Chakra from every tenketsu is so hard in terms of Chakra control , why are people arguing that 64 Palms is harder to learn than Rotation which isn't based on CC?
The process of 64 palms is having the skills and proper movements to pull it off. Any Hyuga can hit tenketsu but not every hyuga have the skills to pull off 64 palms. Rotation has ntn to do with complexity of movements but instead complexity of Chakra control.
Rotation>TLF in the Chakra control needed to use it. TLF>>64 palms in the CC needed to use it. But yet Hinata finds it harder to use 64 palms , because of the movements involved being of a high caliber. Rotation>>>TLF in the CC needed to use it.
-Do u really believe Hinata never tried learning Rotation before the war and only decided to learn it by chance as an adult when her ninja days were basically done? Is it so hard to believe that just like Hinata failed 64 palm until she got she also failed at Rotation until she finally got the hang of it?. Why would Neji/Hiashi actively nerf Hinata by not even trying to teach her Rotation but yet tries to teach her all the other techs? Obvious answer bro. U know im good for this.
Yup fake translation >>>> canon viz manga lmfao. Filler >>>> viz. Hinata performed feats in a genjutsu world = real life lmfao. Hyuga fans have some serious mental problem. Yet not a single implication from a canon source.
Also remember the body hurts when expelling solid chakra, like in this scan, which is due to expulsion if physical energy of body along with the chakra, hyuga fans, its not easy to learn because it isnt just expelling chakra from ass.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but a 64-hit combo against tiny targets would naturally be harder to pull off then using all tenktesu and spinning. IDK, I'm thinking the two can't really be compared given one uses speed, taijutsy, and reflexes while the other uses Chakra Control.
I will just leave it at that until we get new information, but I will simply say that for now, Wall Palm and Twin Lion Fists are really the only Gentle Fist techniques shown or said to be difficult to learn.
Im glad we made progress then. Physically speaking , its clear 64 palms is harder to pull off than Rotation as one is purely based on CC while the other is not as i already explained. U saying that its harder to do than emitting Chakra from the whole body which gives u a ultimate defense is based on no form of logic which is why im firmly against the notion , unlike everything else u said in this quote.
PS. Another reason why 64 Palms isn't harder than full body CC. would u argue that wat prelim Neji did here is harder than him learning to release Gentle fist from his whole body? i hope not..
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Wall palm>>>>Rotation>>>64 palm>>>TLF>=Air-palm>>>>>Basic tenketsu strikes in difficulty. NB4 Neji learnt Rotation but couldn't learn Air-palm/TLF by himself.
the response. I suggest you learn how the Sharingan works it memorised everything and the user can use the jutsu once they meet the requirements. Unless you want to tell us how Madara learnt to use the same Mokuton as they never went face to face again.
