Hokage Minato vs The Gokage

[WolfHaley]

*Sigh* I guess Naruto can't use clones in base because he uses clones in KCM lately. I don't even get this type of argument, sounds like desperation really. 2 of his techniques involve the use of clones(the rasen chourinbu kousanshiki [

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] and goshun mawashi that need 2FTG users). He even stated he used to use the rasen chourinbu kousanshiki a lot while alive. He can't perform it while alive? Lol ok

Is this even a rebuttal? Naruto has shown the use of clones in base. Please read the manga. Don't forget that Minato's bodyguard could use FTG, so please connect the dots. Goshun Mawashi is Tobirama's technique by the way. Have we even seen the other attack? No. Don't use attacks we know nothing of.

 

[Prince Charles]

Please read my post. I never said he couldn't use Kage Bunshin, but he could not use it and be comfortable with his reserves to use FTG or other attacks. When you respond trying to refute this, please don't use fanfiction.

Sigh once again you make no sense, why couldnt minato not be comortable with his reserves while having a clone out on the field? Once again the chakra in a clone depends on how the user splits and gives the user the said chakra. Minato's chakra reserves are already above standard if you observe the jutsu's he used during the kyuubi attack on the leaf. That being said even with a clone or 2 he can still perform minimal ftg and other techniques.

 

[WolfHaley]

Sigh once again you make no sense, why couldnt minato not be comortable with his reserves while having a clone out on the field? Once again the chakra in a clone depends on how the user splits and gives the user the said chakra. Minato's chakra reserves are already above standard if you observe the jutsu's he used during the kyuubi attack on the leaf. That being said even with a clone or 2 he can still perform minimal ftg and other techniques.

KCM Mode increases chakra. Are people here that dense? Please show me a feat of Minato concerning his chakra. He used FTG, FTG Barrier, Summoning, and a sealing jutsu. Big deal.

 

[HNIC]

Sigh once again you make no sense, why couldnt minato not be comortable with his reserves while having a clone out on the field? Once again the chakra in a clone depends on how the user splits and gives the user the said chakra. Minato's chakra reserves are already above standard if you observe the jutsu's he used during the kyuubi attack on the leaf. That being said even with a clone or 2 he can still perform minimal ftg and other techniques.

it's not the point of why, it's a point of PROOF to make such claims. We don't know Minato's chakra reserve and even going by Bogard's post, we don't know if he has the chakra for each to perform jutsu.

KM enhances one's abilities. THIS IS FACT. this is not a reasonable assumption, a logical thought, but we have proof of this. Without Kyuui's charka it remains unknown how many clones he can perform. wtf don't you get? lol

 

[Oblivionx]

hahaha! actually this kagebunshin fight seems very intriguing...! keep it up kingping90 and SSJ vegito....! XD

 

[Bogard]

Is this even a rebuttal? Naruto has shown the use of clones in base. Please read the manga. Don't forget that Minato's bodyguard could use FTG, so please connect the dots. Goshun Mawashi is Tobirama's technique by the way. Have we even seen the other attack? No. Don't use attacks we know nothing of.

I guess Tobirama performed the Goshun Mawashi alone against Obito? [

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] Please stop this nonesense and read the manga? It's a technique they both know.

And you obviously missed the point. The point i'm trying to bring up is the fact that because someone use clones in KCM, it doesn't mean he can't perform it in base. And Naruto is the perfect example of this. Hell in base he has even shown to use much more clones than in KCM where he rarely uses more than 1 in battle. Doesn't mean he can't do more. It's for these reasons i find your argument laughable

 

[NarutoIndra]

He knew how to use it. He read the FTG and the Kage Bunshin on the forbidden scroll, but he never used it in the manga while alive which means he has insufficient chakra to use it with FTG.



Show me scans.



Or he knew it, but knew he couldn't use FTG and Kage bunshin due to his not so great chakra.



KCM Minato > Base Minato.

You are getting more and more idiotic by the second. KCM never had the chance to leave the war and learn jutsu's, meaning he knew how to use it before hand. More evidence supporting my argument is the fact that Minato had a jutsu which used Kage Bunshins in conduction with FTG, all which he certainly didn't have time to learn during the war arc. Your argument is the same as saying Vegito can't defeat Nappa only because he hasn't shown to, which may I add is a very desperate argument. If part 1 Naruto could do many Kage Bunshins yet he couldn't summon a full Gamabunta without the Kyuubi's chakra, than the Minato who summoned Bunta atop of the Kyuubi, and then FTG'd the Kyuubi to another village should certainly do more. Saying he can't without KCM is fallacious and a desperate argument.

 

[HNIC]

I guess Tobirama performed the Goshun Mawashi alone against Obito? [

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] Please stop this nonesense and read the manga? It's a technique they both know.

And you obviously missed the point. The point i'm trying to bring up is the fact that because someone use clones in KCM, it doesn't mean he can't perform it in base. And Naruto is the perfect example of this. Hell in base he has even shown to use much more clones than in KCM where he rarely uses more than 1 in battle. Doesn't mean he can't do more. It's for these reasons i find your argument laughable

Sorry Bogard, but there is no fact in this post. Tobimaru being the creator...we obviously have the proof that he can use this in base. If that was the confusion between you two.

In the scan, MInato surely was not in base.

We're not saying he CAN"T perform it, we're saying we CAN'T conclude the extent in which he CAN perform this. Give 1 clone, are certain feats unavailable (again going by your post) ?

 

[Bogard]

Sorry Bogard, but there is no fact in this post. Tobimaru being the creator...we obviously have the proof that he can use this in base. If that was the confusion between you two.

In the scan, MInato surely was not in base.

We're not saying he CAN"T perform it, we're saying we CAN'T conclude the extent in which he CAN perform this. Give 1 clone, are certain feats unavailable (again going by your post) ?

Kakashi of all people(with his low chakra reserve) was capable to perform more than 20clones in his fatigue state and Minato couldn't?

 

[HNIC]

You are getting more and more idiotic by the second. KCM never had the chance to leave the war and learn jutsu's, meaning he knew how to use it before hand. More evidence supporting my argument is the fact that Minato had a jutsu which used Kage Bunshins in conduction with FTG, all which he certainly didn't have time to learn during the war arc. Your argument is the same as saying Vegito can't defeat Nappa only because he hasn't shown to, which may I add is a very desperate argument. If part 1 Naruto could do many Kage Bunshins yet he couldn't summon a full Gamabunta without the Kyuubi's chakra, than the Minato who summoned Bunta atop of the Kyuubi, and then FTG'd the Kyuubi to another village should certainly do more. Saying he can't without KCM is fallacious and a desperate argument.

ARE you slow??! No one he is saying hadn't been aware of the jutsu, it's a matter of performing it adequately and doing do in a similar fashion as in KM/BM.

 

[Prince Charles]

it's not the point of why, it's a point of PROOF to make such claims. We don't know Minato's chakra reserve and even going by Bogard's post, we don't know if he has the chakra for each to perform jutsu.

KM enhances one's abilities. THIS IS FACT. this is not a reasonable assumption, a logical thought, but we have proof of this. Without Kyuui's charka it remains unknown how many clones he can perform. wtf don't you get? lol

Except it was already proven that alive minato used his ftg techniques that involve the use of clones when he was alive[

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]. Minato's chakra reserves as I said before are already good if you observe the said jutsu he used against obito during the nine tails attacks. Making a clone or two will not limit him from using his regular jutsu such as ftg or summoning.

We can infer from this scan that kakashi was particularly somewhat low on chakra yet still managed to make a clone.

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, by diving his chakra out by not too much just a enough for the clone.

KM enhances one's abilities. THIS IS FACT. this is not a reasonable assumption, a logical thought, but we have proof of this. Without Kyuui's charka it remains unknown how many clones he can perform. wtf don't you get? lol

Im already aware of this, i know very well km enhances one's abilities. But once again it has already been explained by the sharing of chakra and etc Minato can make at most 2-3 clones if necessary. I am not arguing living minato can make like 1000 without kurama's chakra. You can't just comprehend that by diving the chakra evenly and portioning it out minato can make plenty of clones

 

[HNIC]

Kakashi of all people(with his low chakra reserve) was capable to perform more than 20clones in his fatigue state and Minato couldn't?

Kakashi uses clones frequently. Also, Kakashi mostly uses clones for deception purposes, not to spam other jutsu. Also, I still need to see the context of that post.

There have been justu used by the different characters, with the same stamina and yet their usage of that jutsu varied. (One being able to perform it more than the other)

 

[End of Days]

whats up with the clone debate in here

anyway minato used ftg twice before raikage realized wtf was happening and he couldnt make a single move, two three people will die before the rest realize whats going on

 

[HNIC]

Except it was already proven that alive minato used his ftg techniques that involve the use of clones when he was alive[

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]. Minato's chakra reserves as I said before are already good if you observe the said jutsu he used against obito during the nine tails attacks. Making a clone or two will not limit him from using his regular jutsu such as ftg or summoning.

We can infer from this scan that kakashi was particularly somewhat low on chakra yet still managed to make a clone.

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, by diving his chakra out by not too much just a enough for the clone.



Im already aware of this, i know very well km enhances one's abilities. But once again it has already been explained by the sharing of chakra and etc Minato can make at most 2-3 clones if necessary. I am not arguing living minato can make like 1000 without kurama's chakra. You can't just comprehend that by diving the chakra evenly and portioning it out minato can make plenty of clones

As expressed to Bogard, what applies to one does not necessary apply to another. Certain jutsu can take strain of characters differently depending on if their body is accustomed to that justu. Kakashi uses clones in about every fight

As stated above, we've seen two characters with the same stamina perform the same jutsu, but it effected them differently.

btw thank you for that scan, that tells me may very be able to use 1 clone. what chapter was that?

 

[Prince Charles]

As expressed to Bogard, what applies to one does not necessary apply to another. Certain jutsu can take strain of characters differently depending on if their body is accustomed to that justu. Kakashi uses clones in about every fight

As stated above, we've seen two characters with the same stamina perform the same jutsu, but it effected them differently.

btw thank you for that scan, that tells me may very be able to use 1 clone. what chapter was that?

um... I think the chap was called sage monkey king or some shit, when that big ass ape tailed beast was introduced.

 

[HNIC]

um... I think the chap was called sage monkey king or some shit, when that big ass ape tailed beast was introduced.

I looked it up. With that I can agree on 1 clone and the use of ftg only.

Wait, does that just require a clone? I looked further and seen nothing. I thought that was Goshun Mawashi no Jutsu but it wasnt

here he mentions the same jutsu with no clones present

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this DOES NOT require a clone. Therefore, the scan remains invalid

 

[NarutoIndra]

ARE you slow??! No one he is saying hadn't been aware of the jutsu, it's a matter of performing it adequately and doing do in a similar fashion as in KM/BM.

I am not arguing with you, I am arguing with Vegito, you are a hopeless case. I have already replied to your earlier post, you can reply to that if you want to. Wherever did I say he was aware of it? I am claiming he could do it back then, and my reasoning was he had no time to learn this jutsu in the war arc, and he had already devised a just which used cage bunshins with FTG, being Rasen Senkō Chō Rinbu Kōsan Shiki. It is inaccurate to believe he learned all these during the war arc, or couldn't do it without KCM, as not only does he have more chakra than part 1 Naruto, but also better chakra control. Elaborating on this, nothing implies he wouldn't be capable of doing it without KCM, as all cage Bunshins require are a decent chakra reserve. You don't seem to realise that if you can do the ability, you can create as many Kage Bunshins as your chakra can handle. Kakashi's could handle over ten Kage Bunshins with low chakra [

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]. Minato would indubitably do many more.

 

[HNIC]

I am not arguing with you, I am arguing with Vegito, you are a hopeless case. I have already replied to your earlier post, you can reply to that if you want to. Wherever did I say he was aware of it? I am claiming he could do it back then, and my reasoning was he had no time to learn this jutsu in the war arc, and he had already devised a just which used cage bunshins with FTG, being Rasen Senkō Chō Rinbu Kōsan Shiki. It is inaccurate to believe he learned all these during the war arc, or couldn't do it without KCM, as not only does he have more chakra than part 1 Naruto, but also better chakra control. Elaborating on this, nothing implies he wouldn't be capable of doing it without KCM, as all cage Bunshins require are a decent chakra reserve. You don't seem to realise that if you can do the ability, you can create as many Kage Bunshins as your chakra can handle. Kakashi's could handle over ten Kage Bunshins with low chakra [

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]. Minato would indubitably do many more.

this was a fail post. Also, I've already addressed Kakashi using clones and that has no relation to Minato. If you want to ignore my post don't quote me.

 

[Bogard]

I'm done with the clone debate, and this isn't really the object of the topic, but just needed to put it somewhere

Just to say that when you're in KCM, you're temporarily shelving your own chakra to use the ones of the fox and during that moment, the fox eats your own chakra and for each clone you make, he eats a portion of them, which could make you die even quicker since without chakra you die, something that was particularly considered dangerous by Hachibi, saying he shouldn't underestimate the Kyubi who could devour every bit of his chakra despite his particularly high chakra reserves

That means that while in KCM, Minato's own chakra is sucked by the fox(at least was before they became partner in the "2 powers" chapter)

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Before it Minato just sent Juubi's Bijuudama(Bigger than something like Shinsuusenju) and did use a clone for Obito

Furthermore there is also a limit in chakra that you can take from the fox in this mode

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[Prince Charles]

I'm done with the clone debate, and this isn't really the object of the topic, but just needed to put it somewhere

Just to say that when you're in KCM, you're temporarily shelving your own chakra to use the ones of the fox and during that moment, the fox eats your own chakra and for each clone you make, he eats a portion of them, which could make you die even quicker since without chakra you die, something that was particularly considered dangerous by Hachibi, saying he shouldn't underestimate the Kyubi who could devour every bit of his chakra despite his particularly high chakra reserves

That means that while in KCM, Minato's own chakra is sucked by the fox(at least was before they became partner in the "2 powers" chapter)

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Before it Minato just sent Juubi's Bijuudama(Bigger than something like Shinsuusenju) and did use a clone for Obito

Furthermore there is also a limit in chakra that you can take from the fox in this mode

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Indeed this is again proven when naruto tries to make more clones and killer bee corrects him during the war.

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