[Discussion] Hogyoku Aizen vs Ichibei

[Xlad]

Hogyoku Aizen wins.

 

[-Akuma-]

No he was restricting his reiatsu an what does it matter if he still was at the moment? He can bring forth his real reiatsu at anytime it would not help him he was a dead man...wasn't his strongest form so what? He was still at a transcendent level.

Naw ichibei destroys him the moment he releases his zan thanks to the black that's on aizen while he's in his final form.

Aizen lowered his reiatsu once he got hit it was too late. Aizen negs, only fellow a 3rd dimensional being can beat Aizen e.g. only Dangai Ichigo.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

It's a bit confusing considering it seems like Juha Bach didn't open his eyes until after he was hit by Ichibei's shikai and bankai. That means he shouldn't have been able to make it useless using The Almighty. So if he didn't have his eyes open, he tanked both abilities of Ichibei.

Either way, Hogyoku Aizen will either be able to tank it, or he will lose his power. If he loses his power the Hogyoku simply gives him more like it always has.

That's not even how almighty works, if you read the latest chapter it doesn't take yhwach long to comprehend something, yhwach could've activated almighty at the last second and it would still render the attack null. But I do agree on a level that aizen would only be able to tank a bit but it's still hard to say, if aizem gets a name changed and if ichibei touches hogyoku like changes it's name too it's pretty much game. Remember a name is power, and if ichibei labels aizen a dying mortal he will become as such or if he names hogyoku useless it will become useless. The power to name things is a lot more OP than people think. Halving aizen's power though will definitely not be enough though I can agree on that much.

 

[Beetle]

That's not even how almighty works, if you read the latest chapter it doesn't take yhwach long to comprehend something, yhwach could've activated almighty at the last second and it would still render the attack null. But I do agree on a level that aizen would only be able to tank a bit but it's still hard to say, if aizem gets a name changed and if ichibei touches hogyoku like changes it's name too it's pretty much game. Remember a name is power, and if ichibei labels aizen a dying mortal he will become as such or if he names hogyoku useless it will become useless. The power to name things is a lot more OP than people think. Halving aizen's power though will definitely not be enough though I can agree on that much.

We're debating on three powers that are pretty impossible to understand given the information we have. For example we don't know if The Almighty is simply just precognition allowing Juha to perfectly counter, or if it is precognition that grants Juha the ability to nullify what he sees. We also don't know the limit of the Hogyoku. For example, if Ichibei tried to rename it, but Aizen's will didn't want it to be renamed, does it lose its ability or keep it?

And Ichibei's renaming is obviously OP, but we just don't know what exactly Juha Bach did to defeat it.

 

[Braveknight]

Lord aizen wouldnt go there if he wasnt sure he will kill all of them

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

We're debating on three powers that are pretty impossible to understand given the information we have. For example we don't know if The Almighty is simply just precognition allowing Juha to perfectly counter, or if it is precognition that grants Juha the ability to nullify what he sees. We also don't know the limit of the Hogyoku. For example, if Ichibei tried to rename it, but Aizen's will didn't want it to be renamed, does it lose its ability or keep it?

And Ichibei's renaming is obviously OP, but we just don't know what exactly Juha Bach did to defeat it.

If the eyes just gave simple precog then there should've been no change in his power going up or down since even with precog he wouldn't be able to break out if it were that simple. It'd be like me gaining the power to burn anything with my hands but my hands are already cut off so how did I burn my target if I no longer even have my hands??? The same is applicable to this situation, yhwach already explained his powers, it can't just be simple precog because that wouldn't augment his power to a point where he could break out and you yourself did say he activated almighty after he was stomped, which wouldn't make any sense for an ant to tank what yhwach nulled. Yhwach's power obstructs to nullification as well since that's actually make more sense than simply "tanking" the hit.

The hogyoku part Is mere speculation, ichibei is clearly stronger than the ichibei that was making aizen his punching bag, and Aizen couldn't even overcome that, it obstructed his comprehension. I'm not an ichibei fan which is why I'm not hyping him up in just using facts from the manga. I'm not even sure how ichibei DOESN't beat aizem

 

[kotoamatsukami]

Aizen lowered his reiatsu once he got hit it was too late. Aizen negs, only fellow a 3rd dimensional being can beat Aizen e.g. only Dangai Ichigo.

It won't cuz he lowered his reiatsu it's just that he got hit simple as that...peopłe always trying to come up with an excuse an can't face the facts.

 

[-Akuma-]

It won't cuz he lowered his reiatsu it's just that he got hit simple as that...peopłe always trying to come up with an excuse an can't face the facts.

It was because he lower his reissue, so me a scan if Aizen being affected by a non 3rd dimensional bring when his reiatsu is up.......

 

[Beetle]

If the eyes just gave simple precog then there should've been no change in his power going up or down since even with precog he wouldn't be able to break out if it were that simple. It'd be like me gaining the power to burn anything with my hands but my hands are already cut off so how did I burn my target if I no longer even have my hands??? The same is applicable to this situation, yhwach already explained his powers, it can't just be simple precog because that wouldn't augment his power to a point where he could break out and you yourself did say he activated almighty after he was stomped, which wouldn't make any sense for an ant to tank what yhwach nulled. Yhwach's power obstructs to nullification as well since that's actually make more sense than simply "tanking" the hit.

The hogyoku part Is mere speculation, ichibei is clearly stronger than the ichibei that was making aizen his punching bag, and Aizen couldn't even overcome that, it obstructed his comprehension. I'm not an ichibei fan which is why I'm not hyping him up in just using facts from the manga. I'm not even sure how ichibei DOESN't beat aizem

The problem here is that Juha didn't have his eyes opened when he was hit by Ichibei's shikai and bankai. This should have stripped him of his powers, but it didn't. This means that Ichibei's power didn't work well enough to remove Juha's almighty power, or it just didn't work at all against him. This means that if Aizen is hit by Ichibei's shikai/bankai it will either take his power away (after which the Hogyoku restores them) or it won't work at all.

So Ichibei could really only win by two ways. A) he strips the Hogyoku of its power with renaming. Or B) he just flat out overpowers him like Ichigo did. From what we've seen, it doesn't look like be could do option B. So the question is if he can rename the Hogyoku, which we can't be sure if he can or not.

 

[Forbidden Tale]

I think Ichibe.. Nothing Aizen showed me impresse me like what Ichibe done.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Ichibei shits.

Once Aizen name is unworthy the Hogyoku wont' accept him as it's leader and i think it's clear with Ichibei constantly changing names and power levels he negs HG Aizen seeing as his HG powers depends on how strong he is and how worthy he is. Once his name is changed and his power is divided by multiple pieces HG rejects him and Ichibei proceeds to own the fodder. ​

 

[-Akuma-]

Ichibei shits.

Once Aizen name is unworthy the Hogyoku wont' accept him as it's leader and i think it's clear with Ichibei constantly changing names and power levels he negs HG Aizen seeing as his HG powers depends on how strong he is and how worthy he is. Once his name is changed and his power is divided by multiple pieces HG rejects him and Ichibei proceeds to own the fodder. ​

That might not work because it was implied Aizen wanted to lose.​

 

[ssjelf]

The problem here is that Juha didn't have his eyes opened when he was hit by Ichibei's shikai and bankai. This should have stripped him of his powers, but it didn't. This means that Ichibei's power didn't work well enough to remove Juha's almighty power, or it just didn't work at all against him. This means that if Aizen is hit by Ichibei's shikai/bankai it will either take his power away (after which the Hogyoku restores them) or it won't work at all.

So Ichibei could really only win by two ways. A) he strips the Hogyoku of its power with renaming. Or B) he just flat out overpowers him like Ichigo did. From what we've seen, it doesn't look like be could do option B. So the question is if he can rename the Hogyoku, which we can't be sure if he can or not.

YH was able to predict that Ichibei would die 3 steps short of the line that ichibei drew. Either YH's eyes were open beforehand or his power is time independent. I think the latter. So I believe Ichibeis bankai can rename the hogyoku as the reason he didn't rename YH had nothing to do with how well it works in removing names and more to do with it being negated from the start. The hogyoku power is changing reality to its users will but only if the user has the strength to begin with. It was described as a guiding force. So the question becomes not if Ichibei can change its name, but if Aizen has the strength to override Ichibeis ability. I think alone Ichibei has the power to defeat Hogyoku Aizen without relying on Bankai. Look at that hado technique he summoned, I think that is sufficient to seal aizen away. KS won't work either as Ichibei already knows its abilities, he simply has to close his eyes when aizen goes to show him the release.

 

[Goetia]

The battle can go to either combatant. Ichibei is powerful, but I believe that he is somewhat overrated. His name changing, severing and cursing ability is dependent upon the opponent being struck by the ink of his Zanpakutō, Shirafude Ichimonji, which is the Bankai form of his Zanpakutō. Ichibei may be an incredible Shunpō master, but Aizen possesses teleportation using the Hōgyoku. I do not know the level of power Ichibei's Reiatsu and Reiryoku reaches, which is why I cannot give this area to either combatant. As for Zanjutsu, I yet again cannot give this to either person. Kidō...is another story. Aizen's Kidō is terrifyingly powerful, and so too is Ichibei's. However, the difference between them is that Ichibei's can only be guessed upon and estimated, while Aizen's prowess with Kidō has been shown. Aizen incapacitated Komamura with a Hadō #90: Kurohitsugi without incantation in base form. By Aizen's own admission, without using incantation, he cannot summon even a 1/3 of it's full DC while in base form. His Kurohitsugi, while not even at 1/3 of it's full power, was able to cause major injury to Komamura and prevent him from fighting. While he was in his Transcendent stages of Hōgyoku tranformations, his Kurohitsugi with incantation was capable of warping time and space within it's AoE. A Hadō #63: Raikōhō without incantation was able to cause a huge blast that towered high above skyscrapers in Fake Karakura Town (albeit, Aizen was infused with the Hōgyoku, but had not reached his first transformation). His Bakudō #81: Dankū, without incantation, was capable of blocking a Hadō #88: Hiryū Gekizoku Shinten Raihō from arguably the most proficient Kidō user in Soul Society at the time while he was only a Vice-Captain.

This is without considering Kyōka Suigetsu and Kanzen Saimin. Taking all of it into account, I would say that both combatants have around an equal chance of winning. Neither person really gets an edge, since one person's prowess in one area will make up for their inferiority in another.

 

[Imperial]

Obviously Aizen.

"Two Dimensional Beings can never interact with a third"

Ichibei gets destroyed.

Destroyed? He was going evolve into a fifth dimensional being if Mugetsu is considered 4th dimensional being, he would be reckt inside out.​

 

[Phoenix110]

Ichibei wins with this I've ended this thread

 

[Goetia]

Ichibei wins with this I've ended this thread

You forgot my post.

Spoiler

The battle can go to either combatant. Ichibei is powerful, but I believe that he is somewhat overrated. His name changing, severing and cursing ability is dependent upon the opponent being struck by the ink of his Zanpakutō, Shirafude Ichimonji, which is the Bankai form of his Zanpakutō. Ichibei may be an incredible Shunpō master, but Aizen possesses teleportation using the Hōgyoku. I do not know the level of power Ichibei's Reiatsu and Reiryoku reaches, which is why I cannot give this area to either combatant. As for Zanjutsu, I yet again cannot give this to either person. Kidō...is another story. Aizen's Kidō is terrifyingly powerful, and so too is Ichibei's. However, the difference between them is that Ichibei's can only be guessed upon and estimated, while Aizen's prowess with Kidō has been shown. Aizen incapacitated Komamura with a Hadō #90: Kurohitsugi without incantation in base form. By Aizen's own admission, without using incantation, he cannot summon even a 1/3 of it's full DC while in base form. His Kurohitsugi, while not even at 1/3 of it's full power, was able to cause major injury to Komamura and prevent him from fighting. While he was in his Transcendent stages of Hōgyoku tranformations, his Kurohitsugi with incantation was capable of warping time and space within it's AoE. A Hadō #63: Raikōhō without incantation was able to cause a huge blast that towered high above skyscrapers in Fake Karakura Town (albeit, Aizen was infused with the Hōgyoku, but had not reached his first transformation). His Bakudō #81: Dankū, without incantation, was capable of blocking a Hadō #88: Hiryū Gekizoku Shinten Raihō from arguably the most proficient Kidō user in Soul Society at the time while he was only a Vice-Captain.

This is without considering Kyōka Suigetsu and Kanzen Saimin. Taking all of it into account, I would say that both combatants have around an equal chance of winning. Neither person really gets an edge, since one person's prowess in one area will make up for their inferiority in another.

Ichibei does not win hands down. He has a chance of winning, just as much as Aizen does.

 

[Phoenix110]

You forgot my post.


Ichibei does not win hands down. He has a chance of winning, just as much as Aizen does.

Oh you well everything after my first post is irrelevant so post all you want

 

[Akame]

Aizen rotfls, seriously though.

 

[Goetia]

Oh you well everything after my first post is irrelevant so post all you want

You don't know how this works, do you?