Hiruzen - Worst Kage of all time

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"The village can be rebuilt" -Fourth Hokage
1) Tsunade was healing via slugs
2) Dont underestimate Pain (only one tko) nor the rinnegan
3) No one saw that coming, how would you counter a devastating almighty push of that magnitude, Tsunade kept the villagersbsafe from it

Great or bad leader, there are going to be a-holes;
1st Hashirama - Madara
2nd Tobirama - Madara, Uchiha clan, Danzo
3rd Hiruzen - Danzo, Uchiha Clan, Orochimaru
4th Minato - Obito, and most of the above...
Tsunade keep what some left of the village a few fighters majority of the villagers was dead,when Orochimaru attacked the villagers were hidden in the kage monument.

if nagato didn't revive the villages there wouldn't be any leaf anymore. which Tsunade didn't have a hand in

the Uchiha massacre was on both sides head, the uchiha was just as wrong as Danzo, they were planning coup,that would have caused a lot of innocent lives to be lost and other villages could have seized the moment and destroy the leaf complete. they were a threat to the village and the Anbu black ops serve the purpose it was established for.
 

~Sky~

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Wrong. I'd rather have Hiruzen as my Kage then the 4th Mizukage who gets controlled and then used easysauce.
 

Sarukazen

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Thats right, not only the worst Hokage, but worst Kage in general. Let me explain why. First of all this has nothing to do with his abilities or skills, we all know he is one of the strongest shinobi of all time, top 20 at least. This only has do do with him as a Hokage, the position to defend, protect, and take care of your village. He FAILED at all those points.

-Behind his back Itachi & the ENTIRE Uchiha clan was destroyed, inside his own village! This is my biggest gripe, a genocide going on in your own village, and you dont know about it?? Thats is WEAK dude, no excuse for that.

-Behind his back his close friend Danzo was manipulating people, not only his own village, but other villages and starting wars in the name of Konoha. Surely he had to have suspected that Danzo is a piece of shi--t liar and manipulator? After being friends with him for 50years!!! Remove Danzo from power, you are the Hokage! If he didnt see that Danzo was a bad guy he is BLIND!

-His own apprentice invaded his village and killed him.... In plain open daylight... Thats weak.

-Instead of helping protect the 4th Hokage when Kushina gave birth, he was home smoking his pipe..... Nuff said.




I totally agree Bro...
 

JIRAIYA perv

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Thats right, not only the worst Hokage, but worst Kage in general. Let me explain why. First of all this has nothing to do with his abilities or skills, we all know he is one of the strongest shinobi of all time, top 20 at least. This only has do do with him as a Hokage, the position to defend, protect, and take care of your village. He FAILED at all those points.

-Behind his back Itachi & the ENTIRE Uchiha clan was destroyed, inside his own village! This is my biggest gripe, a genocide going on in your own village, and you dont know about it?? Thats is WEAK dude, no excuse for that.

-Behind his back his close friend Danzo was manipulating people, not only his own village, but other villages and starting wars in the name of Konoha. Surely he had to have suspected that Danzo is a piece of shi--t liar and manipulator? After being friends with him for 50years!!! Remove Danzo from power, you are the Hokage! If he didnt see that Danzo was a bad guy he is BLIND!

-His own apprentice invaded his village and killed him.... In plain open daylight... Thats weak.

-Instead of helping protect the 4th Hokage when Kushina gave birth, he was home smoking his pipe..... Nuff said.

funny thread if anything.

- notice how the first two points start with "behind his back", now the Uchiha massacre/situation was too complicated/nearly impossible to avoid, the Uchiha clan's existence in the leaf was like a time bomb and planing to overthrown the village to take over was inevitable (it's no one's fault really).

- Danzo's role/decisions were necessary weather you like it or not (even if he sometimes use extreme measures), keeping the village safe/stable without using questionable methods is almost fictional, besides like you said it was "behind his back".

- oh really so he shouldn't have trained/believed/cared for Oro ?? Oro becoming bad is his fault ?? , that means that Jiraiya was also a failure lol (far from the truth) cough cough one of his students is the savior of NV.

- oh yah .................... now this is the funniest, moving the Kyuubi from one host to another is a top secret/classified process so seeing the third and the fourth move to the same location is not an option + Minato's wife was having a child so what the hell would Hiruzen do there /awkward ?? there's also the fact that he was old/not his former self (that's why they appointed a new Hokage).

you see NONE of the points you made are actually Hiruzen's fault/not valid which is really funny :yeah:
 
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Six Paths of Logic

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Tsunade keep what some left of the village a few fighters majority of the villagers was dead,when Orochimaru attacked the villagers were hidden in the kage monument.

if nagato didn't revive the villages there wouldn't be any leaf anymore. which Tsunade didn't have a hand in

the Uchiha massacre was on both sides head, the uchiha was just as wrong as Danzo, they were planning coup,that would have caused a lot of innocent lives to be lost and other villages could have seized the moment and destroy the leaf complete. they were a threat to the village and the Anbu black ops serve the purpose it was established for.
You kind of went off topic and english, but i got you.
I dont think any other hokage or kage couldve done that to protect all or just some villagers, BUT tsunade did give naruto the slug that gave him helpful tips during his battle. Btw the invasion was for the nine-tails, so just stop.

Wrong. I'd rather have Hiruzen as my Kage then the 4th Mizukage who gets controlled and then used easysauce.
Lol, Obito's sharigan though
 
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-Spoiler-

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You kind of went off topic and english, but i got you.
I dont think any other hokage or kage couldve done that to protect all or just some villagers, BUT tsunade did give naruto the slug that gave him helpful tips during his battle. Btw the invasion was for the nine-tails, so just stop.


Lol, Obito's sharigan though
Doesnt really matter what the point of the invasion was, its the kage's job to protect the village.
and OP went as far as saying he's the worst kage ever, really ? with guys like Onoki , Muu and Bloody Mist Yagura? and before you say Yagura was being controlled, The mist got that name long before Obito even got his sharingan.
 

Mellanoma

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lol Tobirama was the one that forced Hiruzen and danzo hand by persecuting the uchiha and teaching them his philosophy
 

Six Paths of Logic

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Doesnt really matter what the point of the invasion was, its the kage's job to protect the village.
and OP went as far as saying he's the worst kage ever, really ? with guys like Onoki , Muu and Bloody Mist Yagura? and before you say Yagura was being controlled, The mist got that name long before Obito even got his sharingan.

Well you brought up that because of Naruto, Nagato revived the ones who died during the assault. Tsunade did what she could.
"OP": they are kages that have done worst i know that, but thats not what we are talking about, im talking about your comment towards Lady Tsunade.
This chat seems pointless now...
 

SageOfTheTenPaths

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How did Tsunade exactly win at the end? Without Naruto Konoha would have been crushed.

Beside that Hiruzen did approve of elimination of the Uchiha, otherwise they would be Shinobi war again.

If you think that Hiruzen "Suck" becuase of what he did, then what would you have done?

Edit: Hiruzen did stop orochimaru so bascially he did win, and died with a smile on his face

She won beacause a citizen of her village killed Pain, and she herself healed thousands and thousands. Nothing happened behind her back, her Sennin pal Lord Jiraiya worked together with her to gain info and bring down pain.
 

RicardoA

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Its between him and Tobirama imo. So i kinda agree.
Though if we go by what Kishi wants to shove through our eyes and into our brains, he could very well have been the best.
 

MinaButt

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Idk about worst kage but he was the worst Hokage.
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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. He let Danzo operate in the shadows because he also felt what Danzo was doing was necessary for the village, he just couldn't bring himself to do those things. He gave the all clear for the Uchiha massacre and he knew about Danzo.
which means hiruzen is complicit in mass murder, brainwashing and other such evil atrocities.
he gave the all clear for one of the worst acts of mass murder ever.

the Uchiha massacre was on both sides head, the uchiha was just as wrong as Danzo, they were planning coup,that would have caused a lot of innocent lives to be lost and other villages could have seized the moment and destroy the leaf complete. they were a threat to the village and the Anbu black ops serve the purpose it was established for.
the uchiha massacre could have been resolved easily had hiruzen and danzo not brought them to that. they were plannign a coup which, depending on how it was done, could resolve it with minimal loss of life.
other vilages wouldnt sieze any chance to invade. they didnt care about konoha or what went on there.
they were a threat to the government amd to save themsleves they killed uchihas.
the village willbe destroyed just as easily when they lose their strongest clan overnight, and enemies still think nows a good time to invade.



- notice how the first two points start with "behind his back", now the Uchiha massacre/situation was too complicated/nearly impossible to avoid, the Uchiha clan's existence in the leaf was like a time bomb and planing to overthrown the village to take over was inevitable (it's no one's fault really).
it was easily able to be avoided. hiruzen was just too blood hungry to think of another way. uchiha clan was exterminated in the worst atrocity in history besides obito and akatsukis actions

- Danzo's role/decisions were necessary weather you like it or not (even if he sometimes use extreme measures), keeping the village safe/stable without using questionable methods is almost fictional, besides like you said it was "behind his back".
danzo was a crazed evil sociopathic monster. his deicsions were brutal beyond belief, and the opposite of ncessary.
the village is ten times less safe and stable because of his insane actions.

Danzo was the one who wanted the uchiha to be "stopped" Hiruzen wanted another way but the the other village elders disagreed.
then he should have executed the elders for treason and plotting to commit genocide.

yes but he didnt let a akatsuki member invade his village and flatten it neg diff then depend on a kid to save the village
tsunade didnt let pain invade. he just did it.
and yes hiruzen did. he let obito walk in, and depended on minato to save the city
 

WalksInShadows

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he has shown the worst management skills of any Kage by far. Even excluding the stuff concerning the Uchiha, he has a pretty piss poor record of being able to tcb when it needed to be/should have been done.
 
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FlashReturns

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The ignorance I see in this thread is beyond help...
Most are blaming Hiruzen for things set in motion from past Hokages...to call him the worse Kage is pathetic as no one hears knows the entire history of most of the Kages of the other villages...

Now first I will break down Hiruzens mistakes, which aren't all mistakes...
Uchiha Massacre- not only was this not a mistake, it was not Hiruzens fault...Tobirama is responsible for the Uchiha hatred to the higher ups, Hiruzen did not create that, nor did Hashirama. At the end of the day, there was no negotiating with the Uchiha, they wanted the power they couldn't have and didnt work for...It was the Uchiha or Konoha, the choice is obvious. The same people that hate Hiruzen for that will commend Itachi for completing the task for the sake of the village.

Danzo- Danzo both helped and hurt the village and was necessary for Hiruzen like Tobirama was necessary for Hashirama. I wouldn't really label this as a mistake for Hiruzen, tho he should have been much tougher on Danzo...

Orochimaru- He allowed Orochimaru to live even tho Hiruzen suspected him of terrible things, but that is only human nature. Hiruzen practically raised Orochimaru. This is not an excuse as Hiruzen should have dealt with it intially, he corrected his mistake in the future when Oro confronted the village.

Now those are his "mistakes".

Now look at accomplishments.

-Trained 3 incredibly powerful shinobi, all top 25 material.
-Kept Konoha the strongest village for 35+ years
-Defended the village against Kurama, then became Hokage again and kept it strong for another 13 years
-Passed on the Will of Fire like no other Hokage
-Defended the village from the Sand and Oro
I think those easily outweigh his mistakes. Hiruzen may not have been the best but he is far from the worst.
 
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