Hiruzen vs ems sasuke

[EliteKakashi]

You don't need any special bloodline abilities to use Inuzuka, Nara, Akimichi, Yamanaka, or Hyuga clan abilities. Well for the Hyuga clan, the Byakugan helps and highly improves their techniques but its not needed to actually preform them, they'd just be weakened.

Those are techniques that are only taught within the clan, unless there's an example I'm forgetting. While I guess it's possible they can make an exception and teach it to people outside of the clan, I know of no examples of that being done.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Hiraishin is Ninjutsu.

You need to create the formula (fuinjutsu) to use it.

like being able to use all Hiden Ninjutsu

DB stated he learn them via self taught/observation. If part 1 Neji can use his clans ability (not saying Hiruzen can use KKG) without being taught then Im pretty sure Hiruzen self taught/observation is as valid when stated.

 

[Nattana]

You need to create the formula (fuinjutsu) to use it.

Doesn't matter. It was stored in Konoha (probably in a scroll) so Hiruzen knows it. Also, the formula isn't a separate jutsu. It's a part of Hiraishin which is Ninjutsu.



DB stated he learn them via self taught/observation. If part 1 Neji can use his clans ability (not saying Hiruzen can use KKG) without being taught then Im pretty sure Hiruzen self taught/observation is as valid when stated.[/QUOTE]

 

[Lariatoo]

Holy crap. Eight pages! That's actually kind of awesome, you guys Lol

 

[KidGamer65]

DB stated he learn them via self taught/observation. If part 1 Neji can use his clans ability (not saying Hiruzen can use KKG) without being taught then Im pretty sure Hiruzen self taught/observation is as valid when stated.

DB stated that he learned Hiden Ninjutsu based off of observation? Source?

That's Neji Hyuuga's KKG. Not the same thing.

 

[KidGamer65]

Wow. Okay, so now I really want to hear from you your definition of Konoha jutsu.

Already posted a whole thread from another member that explains what "Konoha Jutsu" refers to. Stop posting and go read it.

 

[LuckyMan]

Those are techniques that are only taught within the clan, unless there's an example I'm forgetting. While I guess it's possible they can make an exception and teach it to people outside of the clan, I know of no examples of that being done.

Hiruzen already uses the Inuzuka clans sniffing ability in part 1. The new DB specifically states "Hidden". Plus those moves are only hidden from the actual public. People like the Hokage and the people who work directly under him (Anbu) has access to all the scrolls kept away from the general public and its not hard to believe Hiruzen learned and uses them all. Hes the "professor" and "researcher" and has displayed all 7 natures, the only one too by hype and on panel feats.

 

[Nattana]

Already posted a whole thread from another member that explains what "Konoha Jutsu" refers to. Stop posting and go read it.

I want to hear it from you. If it's so simple, then post it here in like one sentence. It doesn't get any easier than than, right?

 

[KidGamer65]

I want to hear it from you. If it's so simple, then post it here in like one sentence. It doesn't get any easier than than, right?

As if I care. Me posting it or you reading it isn't going to change what's there. If a sentence was good enough to explain it, the thread would have been a sentence, but it's not.

Never said it was simple, what is simple is reading the thread. It doesn't get any easier than that.

 

[Bogard]

Blaze Release made a thread (a very good one) on Narutoforums two years back. It explains what Hiruzen's "All Ninjutsu hype" means, and it makes much more sense than you clowns who think he can go around spamming clan's Hiden Ninjutsu (who would teach Hiruzen sacred clan techniques anyway? Lol) and Hiraishin.

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forums.com/showthread.php?t=893395

Just get rid of the space.

A translator's opinion on the matter.

Spoiler

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Can we stop the wank?

Actually this thread can be found in narutobase as well(using narutoforums wasn't necessary):

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I do think he can use all elemental ninjutsus in konoha, although he can't use hiden techniques or kekkei genkais imo

 

[KidGamer65]

Actually this thread can be found in narutobase as well(using narutoforums wasn't necessary):

You must be registered for see links

I do think he can use all elemental ninjutsus in konoha, although he can't use hiden techniques or kekkei genkais imo

Lol.....I didn't even know that until now.

Though yeah, this is pretty much what I can agree with.

 

[Nattana]

Actually this thread can be found in narutobase as well(using narutoforums wasn't necessary):

You must be registered for see links

I do think he can use all elemental ninjutsus in konoha, although he can't use hiden techniques or kekkei genkais imo

Wow, only fools would say he could use KKG...

 

[Nattana]

Actually this thread can be found in narutobase as well(using narutoforums wasn't necessary):

You must be registered for see links

I do think he can use all elemental ninjutsus in konoha, although he can't use hiden techniques or kekkei genkais imo

Elemental jutsu only? Hiruzen was also hyped to know 1000 Genjutsu.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Hiruzen already uses the Inuzuka clans sniffing ability in part 1. The new DB specifically states "Hidden". Plus those moves are only hidden from the actual public. People like the Hokage and the people who work directly under him (Anbu) has access to all the scrolls kept away from the general public and its not hard to believe Hiruzen learned and uses them all. Hes the "professor" and "researcher" and has displayed all 7 natures, the only one too by hype and on panel feats.

Inuzuka's sniffing ability? Where does it state that? As far as I'm aware that's just Hiruzen having an incredible sense of smell.

Naruto states Kakashi's sense of smell is greater than part 1 Kiba's, so it's possible for non-members of the Inuzuka clan to have an enhanced sense of smell.

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I'm honestly not sure how to take anything this new databook says until it's properly translated. I've heard things being translated one way, others claiming that's wrong(such as Hiruzen being more talented than Tobirama, but there's people who say that it's an incorrect translation), etc, etc. Once Viz translates it, I'll buy what's said in it, but until then I'm going to try and ignore it in discussions.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

DB stated that he learned Hiden Ninjutsu based off of observation? Source?

Someone translated it in Narutofourm Fourth Databook, pages 170-171. It mught not say "How" he did it. Buts thats his only way to know them.

That's Neji Hyuuga's KKG. Not the same thing.

Same premise since Hiden isn't KKG base which means anyone can learn it.

 

[LuckyMan]

Inuzuka's sniffing ability? Where does it state that? As far as I'm aware that's just Hiruzen having an incredible sense of smell.

Naruto states Kakashi's sense of smell is greater than part 1 Kiba's, so it's possible for non-members of the Inuzuka clan to have an enhanced sense of smell.

You must be registered for see images

I'm honestly not sure how to take anything this new databook says until it's properly translated. I've heard things being translated one way, others claiming that's wrong(such as Hiruzen being more talented than Tobirama, but there's people who say that it's an incorrect translation), etc, etc. Once Viz translates it, I'll buy what's said in it, but until then I'm going to try and ignore it in discussions.

Kakashi is a slightly different case. He has an affinity with dogs, just like the Inuzuka clan.

 

[Draegod]

DB stated that he learned Hiden Ninjutsu based off of observation? Source?

That's Neji Hyuuga's KKG. Not the same thing.

Databook states all jutsu not including KGG (because you need the dna ofc). He can see any ninja or being in the village or if he knows there chakra due to:

Databook 1 - Toomegane no Jutsu:
NINJUTSU; Toomegane no jutsu (Telescopic Observation technique*)
User: Sandaime
Supplementary; Long range; Rank: A

Main text

A jutsu that uses a crystal ball to track a particular individual anywhere they are. There are a few restrictions about the person that is subjected to pursuit. The caster must know that person's chakra pattern. If someone can be targeted for pursuit, they may be miles and miles far away, the crystal ball will be able to confirm their position. As this jutsu is unfallible for intelligence purposes, Sandaime Hokage uses it to maintain public order in the village.

Caption

-The unfathomable clairvoyance that sees everything without obstruction.

Picture comment

-If the targeted individual is inside the village of Konoha, they will be observable even on top of a mountain or in the middle of the ocean.

Now I really don't wanna list all the Databook entry's and Manga feats to justify that he can perfectly use everything equal to every user we have seen. But i'll first list the obv:
1. He had huge chakra arguably higher then all non Jin's in the village at the time of his reign we can assume based off the manga.
2. Any and all kages from history have never been low level at anything ever shown. Why would you assume he would have lower levels of jutsu then lower level ninjas in his village?
3. Him being able to see any clan in the village and he literally knows every jutsu and it's user in the village, why wouldn't he know how to use there jutsu's? Jutsu's rely on chakra to justify it's level of capability correct? His chakra in prime is beyond them all and him knowing the jutsu would mean he could possibly do some of the jutsu at an even higher level based on manga logic.

I know you wont agree to any of this based on how you previously have been. But if you don't then you contradict yourself big time. You state EMS sasuke can perfectly do all of EMS/Rinnegan madara PS feats even though he hasnt shown so correct? Now your logic is that "PS" is "PS" and it should be able to do all of EMS madara's feats on the same level even though madaras chakra and everything about him is on a completely different level (fact). So my question is; How is it Hiruzen cannot use/preform the jutsu lower chakra level ninjas can use on a similar if not better level (since its fact he knows them all and can use them all excluding KKG), But sasuke who has a smaller level of chakra and experience with a jutsu could have the same feats of a ninja who is head and shoulders above him? Hypocrite is What you would be to the real world.

And again this is just keeping it simple.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Found DB

Hiruzen earned the title of professor for being a researcher. He was trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama, as the man that would succeed them. At a young age he showed greater talent than Tobirama. All five nature alterations, Hidden (I think it means Clan based techniques), Genjutsu, all ninjutsu existing in Konoha which explains his reputation as the professor. Hence the essence of Hiruzen is his talent with ninjutsu. Everyone in the village is his family member

Translation by Turrin from Narutoforums

Even if you dont agree with the premise of self taught/Observation (even with manga feats showing how excellent his observation is), the DB made it clear on Hiruzen's relationship with the village. And this bond, that was stated, could be another reason to know clan's Hiden abilities.

 

[KidGamer65]

Someone translated it in Narutofourm Fourth Databook, pages 170-171. It mught not say "How" he did it. Buts thats his only way to know them.





Same premise since Hiden isn't KKG base which means anyone can learn it.

I read it, and you're right, so I'll agree with him having all the Hiden Ninjutsu (good thing my arguments replied to them anyway) but definitely not things like Hiraishin.

 

[KidGamer65]

Now I really don't wanna list all the Databook entry's and Manga feats to justify that he can perfectly use everything equal to every user we have seen. But i'll first list the obv:
1. He had huge chakra arguably higher then all non Jin's in the village at the time of his reign we can assume based off the manga.

Ok.

2. Any and all kages from history have never been low level at anything ever shown. Why would you assume he would have lower levels of jutsu then lower level ninjas in his village?

Never said he would. I only said it's not going to be much much stronger.

3. Him being able to see any clan in the village and he literally knows every jutsu and it's user in the village, why wouldn't he know how to use there jutsu's? Jutsu's rely on chakra to justify it's level of capability correct? His chakra in prime is beyond them all and him knowing the jutsu would mean he could possibly do some of the jutsu at an even higher level based on manga logic.

Lol. Databook says he can use them, but this is terrible logic. Hiruzen seeing the jutsu doesn't mean he can use them, and no, all jutsu's power aren't decided by chakra strength alone. There is no difference between any of the 3-Tomoe Genjutsu, MS Genjutsu, and EMS Genjutsu used in the mange, despite the chakras of these user's clearly not being equal.

I know you wont agree to any of this based on how you previously have been. But if you don't then you contradict yourself big time. You state EMS sasuke can perfectly do all of EMS/Rinnegan madara PS feats even though he hasnt shown so correct? Now your logic is that "PS" is "PS" and it should be able to do all of EMS madara's feats on the same level even though madaras chakra and everything about him is on a completely different level (fact). So my question is; How is it Hiruzen cannot use/preform the jutsu lower chakra level ninjas can use on a similar if not better level (since its fact he knows them all and can use them all excluding KKG), But sasuke who has a smaller level of chakra and experience with a jutsu could have the same feats of a ninja who is head and shoulders above him? Hypocrite is What you would be to the real world.

...........................

I don't know how many times I have to say this. Said this on the BM Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke thread multiple times yet you are still singing the same song. I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT EMS MADARA'S PS=EMS SASUKE'S.