Hiruzen vs ems sasuke
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KidGamer65
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Correcting an idiot (which would be you and you alone) doesn't make the person doing the correcting stupid. Lol.
Also, don't say us, cause there's only one idiot on this thread, and it's you. Didn't refer to anyone else.
KidGamer65
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Blaze Release made a thread (a very good one) on Narutoforums two years back. It explains what Hiruzen's "All Ninjutsu hype" means, and it makes much more sense than you clowns who think he can go around spamming clan's Hiden Ninjutsu (who would teach Hiruzen sacred clan techniques anyway? Lol) and Hiraishin.
Just get rid of the space.
A translator's opinion on the matter.
Can we stop the wank?
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forums.com/showthread.php?t=893395Just get rid of the space.
A translator's opinion on the matter.
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Can we stop the wank?
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You seriously don't understand some things. In this thread we DO USE Hiruzen's hype - no matter what it is. You're posting some funny threads trying to prove something is right or wrong, which is completely pointless.
Hype says Hiruzen knows all Konoha jutsu so in this thread he knows them. Stop arguing.
KidGamer65
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I take back my previous statement. I am arguing with two idiots. Lol Let me tell you what you and the other clown don't understand. We can use Hiruzen's hype, but that doesn't mean you can twist the fuck out of his hype and make it into whatever the hell you want to make it into? Comprende? You understand? Jesus Chirst.
You say Hiruzen's hype is something that's it's not, like being able to use all Hiden Ninjutsu and being the strongest Hokage. I refute it. Me not using your twisted version of Hiruzen's hype=/=Me not using Hiruzen's hype.
Did you people even begin to think what "Konoha Jutsu" means? How the hell do you know that Konoha Jutsu=All the Jutsu of all the people in the Leaf Village? Cause Minato resides in the Leaf Village, yet he uses jutsu of other clans.
I suppose he can use Rasengan or Raikiri now too while we're at it? Along with the secret Ninjutsu of all the other clans, despite clans not teaching their Hiden to outsiders....can't say he learned it from observation, because you can't learn Hiden techniques from observation, you have to be taught.
Please don't reply to me again unless you are going to reply with a post that makes sense.
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EliteKakashi
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The post that translator made was prior to Hiruzen showing the ability to use all elements, which up to that point(2012), we were led to believe that no one other than rinnegan users were capable of doing such a thing. What complicated it even further is Jiraiya stating(if my memory serves me correctly, I think during the flashback of training Nagato) that no one was capable of using all elements.
So we've got a student of his claiming that no one is capable of doing it, which would thus nullify the idea that he could use all jutsu, as they obviously would require all elements.
Given his databook scores(iffy to use, I know, but he received a 5 in everything that doesn't degrade with age), his feat of using all 5 elements, Orochimaru's statement, and the fact that Orochimaru claimed he was referred to as a
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, without him having any kind of special bloodline or eyes, makes his vast ninjutsu/genjutsu/taijutsu knowledge and skill his "calling card". I avoided the belief of him being able to back up that statement by Orochimaru prior to his 5 element feat, due to the things I listed above such as Jiraiya's statement, but after showing the ability to do that? There's really not much reason to not believe it.
Edit: Just to make clear, no, I don't think he can use clan jutsu or what have you.
KidGamer65
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Hiruzen was stated to be able to use all the Nature Elements even before 2012.
True. Very true.
Why would his 5 element feat change what jutsu you believe he can use? Being able to use all 5 Nature Transformations doesn't automatically mean that he gets access to every jutsu on Konoha, based on wording like "He knows all of Konoha's Jutsu" considering not one person can definitively say what "Konoha's Jutsu" refer to.
Lol, thank God.
Hiraishin is Konoha jutsu. Kage Bunshin is from Konoha. Demonic Illusion is passed in Konoha since ancient times. Hiden, clan techniques are Konoha jutsu, not to mention Hiruzen canonically used Inuzuka sniffing. I've never used against you ANY jutsu that was not from Konoha. So the one being an idiot is you.
KidGamer65
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This post is literally a repeat of everything I just replied to. Concession accepted.
If we go by your definition of Konoha Ninjutsu, then sure, but considering your definition is utterly retarded and makes no sense, and considering I have 3 explanations for why it's not what you say it is, and you've given no rebuttal except: "hurr durr Konoha Jutsu Hiraishin" I have no reason to take your opinion into consideration.
Now, unless you have a rebuttal to Blaze's thread, the fact that Clan's don't teach their Hiden Ninjutsu to outsiders, we are done here. Stop replying to me or get a counter argument.
Masked man
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You don't need any special bloodline abilities to use Inuzuka, Nara, Akimichi, Yamanaka, or Hyuga clan abilities. Well for the Hyuga clan, the Byakugan helps and highly improves their techniques but its not needed to actually preform them, they'd just be weakened.
First you question Hiruzen being the strongest Hokage.
Then you question hype saying he knew all Konoha jutsu.
2 more posts and you will tell us that Databooks never existed and your words mean more than Kishi's when it comes to Naruto, even if it's only pure hype.
The thread you linked is completely useless. Unless you tell me how in the world Hiruzen learned Inuzuka sniff sensing, your whole post about clan techniques remains irrelevant.
Konoha jutsu are justu that are popular, unique to and used by at least a specific group of Konoha members. Rasenshuriken obviously isn't Konoha jutsu even though Naruto is from Konoha, but Hiraishin, Edo Tensei, Kage Bunshin and ALL clan techniques ARE Konoha jutsu, no matter if clan jutsu are kept in secret or not. Hiruzen was clearly an exception.
EliteKakashi
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Orochimaru stated he could during their encounter via saying he was capable of using all konoha techniques, yes, but Jiraiya(again, if my memory serves me) claimed no one was capable of using all 5.
Because, again, we're led to believe only a rinnegan user could use all 5 elements. Hiruzen, of course, is not a rinnegan user. If Jiraiya, a student of Hiruzen claims that it can't be done, I assumed that was retconning Orochimaru's statement. Plenty of other things in this manga have been retconned.
The jutsu in Konoha all seem to be recorded in scrolls, and Hiruzen as hokage obviously has access to these scrolls. It was shown even in retirement that he continued to study:
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So on top of his 30-40-ish years reigning as Hokage(both tenures counted), on top of still studying even years in to his retirement, I tend to believe if a Konoha ninja uses an elemental technique, Hiruzen is going to have knowledge of it. This being because Konoha students are taught by Konoha senseis who were taught by the Konoha senseis before them(several generations of this senseis coming under Hiruzen's reign), etc, etc, etc, and the techniques and abilities they teach their students have to be recorded at some point.
Now there's exceptions like Naruto's combo with Yamato that were created post-death of Hiruzen, but in most cases? I don't have much reason to believe that he wouldn't know the elemental techniques.
KidGamer65
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Because no recent manga hype supports it, and they removed that hype from his Databook 3 AND 4 entries.
Never said he didn't. I only questioned what "Konoha Jutsu" refers to, and you've given me zero reason to believe that Konoha Jutsu refers to the jutsu of every single person who has ever lived in the Leaf Village.
Lol, the words of an idiot indeed. You wouldn't be posting stuff like this if you were comprehending any of my posts, but since it doesn't agree with your fanfic wank hype, you ignore it.
Hiruzen having a good sense of smell=/=Hiruzen knowing Inuzuka Clan, and other Hiden Ninjutsu, especially since the Inuzuka's sniffing isn't a jutsu. Hiruzen's sense of smell being on par with theirs is nothing but an assumption anyways.
Kakashi was hyped by Naruto to have a better sense of smell than Kiba, I guess he learned the Inuzuka's Jutsu as well....even though it's not a jutsu.
Which is based on.....oh wait, nothing. Lol. figures. If you are going to ignore the thread I posted, then there is nothing more to debate here as you have no argument.
Brother Numpsay
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I agree with everything but this. Manga never stated he knows all Fuinjutsu abilities which is a different class then Ninjutsu.
KidGamer65
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Yeah, you're right.
Because, again, we're led to believe only a rinnegan user could use all 5 elements. Hiruzen, of course, is not a rinnegan user. If Jiraiya, a student of Hiruzen claims that it can't be done, I assumed that was retconning Orochimaru's statement. Plenty of other things in this manga have been retconned.
I can agree with the elemental techniques, possibly. It all depends on which jutsu we are talking about. The thread I posted still explained it perfectly IMO.