Hiruzen vs ems sasuke
- Thread starter NarutoKage2
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Char Aznable
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NarutoKage2
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@kidgamer:Also, define an 'original' jutsu.
The kage bunshin was an original jutsu of the 2nd, then half the world copied it.
Hiruzen gets all these techs because the manga stated he could use any jutsu in the leaf.
The kage bunshin was an original jutsu of the 2nd, then half the world copied it.
Hiruzen gets all these techs because the manga stated he could use any jutsu in the leaf.
This right here
FodderHiruzentards think Hiruzen has Tsunade's's Byakugou, Kakashi's Chidori/Raikiri, Toad SM and Tobirama/Minato's FTG becoz a fodder hyped him.
God help these trolls
Char Aznable
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And yet the only people who are said to have mastered the rasengan before Naruto were Minato and Jiraiya.
The same can be said about Kakashi's chidori, before he taught it to Sasuke.
The only people capable of performing Edo Tensei were Tobirama, Orochimaru and later Kabuto. If Hiruzen knew Edo Tensei, he could've done the hand seals to undo the jutsu during the fight.
Tsunade's yin seal was a jutsu of the wife of the First Hokage.
The entire Hyuga fighting style is out of bounds for Hiruzen.
I could go on but I won't.
KidGamer65
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Lol..unsurpassed means NO ONE surpassed you, and that includes Hiruzen. 3rd and 4th Databook, both DB's for Part 2 never mention him being the strongest Hokage, no reason to believe he still has the strongest Hokage hype. Kakashi is irrelevant because Hashirama's is talking about strength. Lol. Don't try and twist the meaning of "unsurpassed" in this context to better your argument.
Except he isn't.
Doesn't mean that his Genjutsu>>>>Her Genjutsu.
Never said he wasn't caught, instead of reversing it, he breaks out with ease. Just that simple.
Nice try.
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Shadows under Naruto and Kakashi.
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Shadows under Naruto, and Zetsu, not Sasuke.
Can optical images that people see due to lack of light touch people? Cause I know Shikamaru's Shadows can. So yes, it does alter it's properties, unless you think I can grab my Shadow now. Not to mention that isn't proof that a shadow can slide through a solid body. Will my Shadow go into a closed box? Obviously not. It will be cast over the box, not through it.
Still has to throw Kunai.
"Outburst of emotions" don't do anything in any kind of manga without some kind of power to back it up. Lol. Outburst of emotions. Hatred made his Susanoo level up, and then the Curse broke.
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Obito attributes him breaking the seal to his hatred leveling him up.
Not with a weak enough Susanoo, and magical plot escape? If you read the manga you'd know what happened and why it isn't a "magical plot escape"
Except I'm seeing no evidence for this gap. Being Hokage doesn't automatically make your chakra the most potent, not to mention he has no hype of being the strongest, not anymore.
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Kagemane is never happening. Bringer of Darkness doesn't even need to be dispelled, Sharingan sees right through it. Demonic Illusion and Mind Switch is countered.
No, you are overrating his ability to use jutsu. You think that by piling up weak jutsu after weak jutsu that Hiruzen will be able to finish Sasuke. What is Sasuke doing during all this? These all need handsigns, Sasuke has intel on the majority of these jutsu and Sharingan can read handsigns to tell what jutsu is coming next. Amaterasu is instant. Hiruzen gets his ass burned if he tries to spam all these jutsu, cause Sasuke can stop him, and he can his own jutsu, much faster.
Is Sasuke going to be standing there when Hiruzen is making hand signs to cast Genjutsu? Nope.
@Draegod: Sure, why not?
NarutoKage2
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Ill complete it for you. All non kkg jutsus are the ones hes allowed to get using hype, this obviously doesnt include the gentle fist techs of the hyuga etc.
I cant bold but your edo tensei statement is invalid. Hiruzen couldnt have done anything as orochimaru was the summoner, what itachi did was to control kabuto using genjutsu, and he then forced him to perform the hand seals to release edo tensei. Just making hand seals isnt going to release an edo tensei cast by someone else lol.
Char Aznable
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Isn't that exactly what Madara did though? Weave the hands signs in order to prevent his soul from going back to the afterlife.
KidGamer65
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The fact that a barrier made of chakra blocked it out is proof enough. The fact Nagato's Soul Dragon can't phase through the ground is also evidence.
Stupidity is real. No shit he wasn't at home. That shows your retarded "age=knowledge" nonsense is wrong.
@bold: When you can explain how knowing Shisui and how knowing Itachi means that he knows everything about their Mangekyo then we can talk. Knowing about Shisui's Mangekyo is completely irrelevant anyway since Itachi's Jutsu are the ones that are most similar to Sasuke's.
Never said he knows nothing about the Uchiha, don't twist my words moron.
Lol, so Hiruzen knowing Danzo means that he knows about Danzo's 11 Sharingan? And that he knows everything about them? Hey, why don't we say he knows about Izanagi, Izanami, Susanoo while we are at it.
Lol, I want to say learn how to debate, but you need to get some common sense before you attempt that. I'll take your concession on this point since you've failed, for the third time, to tell me how he'd know about Sasuke's Jutsu.
1. How the hell would knowing about it change what Danzo wanted to do?
2. Why the hell would Hiruzen sit his ass down and say or do nothing when he learned that Danzo attacked Shisui and STOLE his Sharingan?
3. Where did Danzo ever imply that he was so desperate that he'd control Hiruzen? Or waste the jutsu on him?
When you can actually provide evidence besides your assumptions, then we can talk.
Yes. Him believing that Itachi thought like a Hokage when he was a little kid means that he knows all about his MS Jutsu. Lol, you are a class A joke. Get evidence or get lost. The bold is enough for me to stop taking you seriously. "ASSUME" means nothing in a debate. Nothing at all.
Yet a fodder replicates the same jutsu. Lol. Keep on trying to hype up weak Edo Tobirama.
1. PS Slash is a feat for Perfect Susanoo, not Madara exclusively. Sasuke has Perfect Susanoo. You are going to have to deal with it.
2. Sharingan sees right through Bringer of Darkness. Once again.
3. I'm not seeing evidence that he can use Uzumaki Clan Fuuinjutsu, so concession accepted.
Susanoo>Kurama when it comes to durability and sturdiness. Susanoo swings it's blade and Enma goes bye bye.
Lol, I hate Hiruzen fapboys so much...
Hirudora, on Gai's level, pushed back Madara's V3 Susanoo. PS>>>V4>>>V3. So, irrelevant. Also, Gai>>>>>>>>>>>Hiruzen when it comes to Taijutsu, and everything in the physical area. Don't give his feats to Hiruzen.
He uses Hirudora, which only managed to destroy a v3 Susanoo, and gets it tanked by PS, and then gets biseted.
Not like Hirudora can get past Susanoo anyway. Breaking a weaker V3 doesn't mean he can break a PS.
-Another counter to susanoo is hiruzen using edo tensei, (invented by the 2nd hokage, a jutsu of the leaf village) to revive edo madara and have him crush sasuke lol.
Basic Fuuinjutsu? We got feats or what?
KidGamer65
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What the fuck? Why did I just now see this nonsense...Lol.
When you can show me Hiruzen having his DNA, then we can talk. When you can show me the limits of Hiruzen's control, then we can talk.
Quote:
Databook 1, Page 117 "
The "Professor" revered as the strongest Hokage in history.
Databook 1
Quote:
Databook 1, Page 119 "
"History's Strongest", "Genius", etc., there are many words that describe the Sandaime Hokage.
Databook 2.
Quote:
Konohamaru, descended from Sandaime, who was praised as history’s strongest Hokage..
I don't care about Hashirama. Hiruzen was called the strongest Hokage in DB so given that we use hype in this thread, he IS above Hashirama and all the others. I don't care about manga facts and shit. Hype is hype.
He is.
It does. Even if hype Prime Hiruzen was not above, but on par with Hashirama in power, it is still enough to say Hiruzen's Demonic Illusion > Kurenai's one. Not to mention Demonic Illusion isn't something Kurenai come up with, but it's Genjutsu passed down in Konoha since like forever. Hiruzen has the same Genjutsu score in DB.
Doesn't matter. 50+ clones barraging Sasuke with other disabling jutsu will still do the job.
NarutoKage2
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Lol. Ill need to wait till my pc gets back up to reply to this, cuz not posting links reduces the effectiveness of the post. And some of these points by kg65 deserve to be slapped in the face with manga scans.
NarutoKage2
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Congratulations for losing the entire argument. Go back, read up the difference between hype and feats, then come back and argue. A hype is by default, nevershown unlike a feat, which is. And since the op clearly stated to take hype into consideration, it obviously means that there is no actual scan, just stastatements, that translates into feats for jutsu like edo tensei (which are from the leaf) in a thread like this.
Learn to read.
KidGamer65
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Databooks 3 and 4 never hyped him, I have no reason to believe his hype as the strongest Hokage still stands, that simple. When you can show me any recent DB entries that depict him as the strongest Hokage, then I'll agree, until then, stop using outdated, invalid hype. As of 2015, Hiruzen's Strongest Hokage hype is no more. It has gone to Hashirama. Recent Manga hype and recent Databook hype agree.
If you aren't going to show me some recent hype, don't bother replying to this point.
Except nothing proves he was above or on par with Hashirama, nor does that prove his Genjutsu will be above hers. Like I said, Obito>Kakashi in chakra quality and quantity, yet they tied in a Genjutsu battle. Sasuke>Itachi in chakra quality and quantity, yet Itachi's Genjutsu>Sasuke's Genjutsu. EMS Madara's Genjutsu was shown to be no different from anyone else's despite his chakra being the strongest out of all the Uchiha in the manga, and the greatest.
Kurenai's Genjutsu gets fodderized in a split second.
If only you could prove that Hiruzen has the chakra to split 50 times, with each being able to use these jutsu, at the same time. But you don't, so point ignored.
While he was on the ground. If he's in a full body Susanoo, there is no shadow, some of the scans I just posted show.
Lol, you say he never draws shadows on panels that show characters far away, yet that scan shows Sasuke, far away, and you can see his shadow.
Same goes for Shikamaru's Shadow.
Lol, Susanoo not stopping light=/=Shikamaru's Shadow being able to get inside. Shadows being cast from inside the box=/=Shadows from outside being able to go inside the box. Same concept with the Shadow and the box.
If he modifies it's properties, it's not the same as a real life shadow anymore. His shadows can interact with physical objects, which only makes it harder for you to argue that it'll magically pass through Susanoo I don't know why you are bringing up these irrelevant examples.
So we have 50 Hiruzen clones spamming disabling jutsu, and Hiraishin? Lmao. Fanfic wank is real with this one. Get me proof he can split his chakra between 50 clones and still be able to use all these jutsu and then we can talk.
He throws Kunai, and then Enton Magatama or a PS slash deflects them all.
Except:
1. No evidence that he can split his chakra between 50 clones and all have them use Kagemane.
2. No evidence that it'll be strong enough to restrain PS.
3. Kagemane isn't going to phase through PS and get to Sasuke.
Except it doesn't, and literally nothing you've posted shows that. Lol. Nor is he as strong as Hashirama.
Fine, like I said, what Hashirama's chakra does to someone else's chakra reserves is irrelevant.
Ino, a pro at the jutsu had him in for 2 seconds. No reason to believe Hiruzen is as good as she is with the jutsu. None whatsoever. Being able to use all of Konoha's jutsu doesn't mean he's better than everyone who uses them. I see no feats (Of course) and no real hype or logic that'd lead anyone to that conclusion.
Again with the 50 clones thing? Lol.
Funny how you think Hiruzen can use all these jutsu with 50 clones. When I have evidence, then we can talk. Until then, please stop the wank. First Hiruzen is spamming all these jutsu at once, now he is using them at the same time with 50 clones? Not to mention somehow Hiruzen is going to maintain a Genjutsu, maintain Kagemane, and then maintain Mind Body Switch? At the same time?
@bold: Stop grasping at straws. Sharingan activates far faster than Hiruzen can make any kind of hand sign. Susanoo and Amaterasu activate faster than Hiruzen can use any kind of hand sign. Yet somehow, Sasuke sits here while Hiruzen makes 50 clones, hand signs for all 50 clones, to target him with Genjutsu, Kagemane, and Mind Body Transfer all at the same time. Lol.
This all assumes he gets caught in Hiruzen's Genjutsu to begin with. Sharingan can anticipate Ninjutsu or Genjutsu via Hand Signs. Genjutsu needs a medium to catch the opponent. Her medium is obviously her hand signs. Not looking at the hand signs means no dice for him.
Let's say he gets caught. Hiruzen still has to make the hand signs for whatever jutsu he is going to use next, and he has actually hit him with the jutsu before it can take effect. That takes longer than a second, longer than it'll take Sasuke to fodderize this Genjutsu. Then whatever he uses next gets evaded. Mind Body Switch can be evaded. Kagemane can be overpowered. Let's say he gets hit by Mind Body Switch after getting out of Genjutsu, that gives him 1-2 seconds to break out. Hiruzen still has to hit him with a move in 1-2 seconds before it's actually
This also assumes that at match's start, Sasuke doesn't do something to attack instead of sitting there like a **** waiting for Hiruzen to spam all this nonsense at him, which is exactly what you think will happen. Hiruzen still needs to make hand signs to use it, and it still needs to reach it's target. That's longer than 2 seconds. Sasuke breaks out, and enters Susanoo and one shots his clones with PS.
Let's say Hiruzen makes clones, this doesn't change anything, cause he still needs to have these jutsu actually reach and hit Sasuke, and he can't hold him in Genjutsu or Mind Body Switch long enough to do that, so Sasuke ends up breaking out, and Susanoo comes out and Hiruzen dies a painful ass death.
Considering it's get broken in a second...it's irrelevant.
Lol, I know what's reducing the effectiveness of your posts, and it definitely isn't the lack of manga scans...(more like the lack of a brain)
KidGamer65
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Lol, you sir, win the idiot of the month award. Hiruzen being able to use Edo Tensei is the hype. Hiruzen being able to use all the Edos that Kabuto and Orochimaru have isn't included in his hype. Hiruzen being able to summon his Edos as strong as Orochimaru or Kabuto can isn't included in his hype. Unless you have hype or feats that say he can summon Edo Madara, and at the same level Kabuto did, I suggest you stop making yourself look like a fool.
This is what's wrong with Hiruzen wankers. They take his hype, and due to the vagueness of it, they stretch and twist the shit so much to benefit their arguments. That's why I see arguments like:
-50 clones spam Mind Body Switch, Kagemane, and Genjutsu and Hiraishin.
-Hiruzen summons Edo Madara.
I'll take Hiruzen's hype into account, not your shitty interpretation of his hype.
You clowns think that Hiruzen is gonna grab someone's jutsu, and then use it at master level, when no hype indicates that. Being good at it=/=Being a master=/=Being better than the original wielders.
Like I said, lack of a brain.
Conspirator.
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NarutoKage2
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Lol the biggest fail in this post is the irony of such a statement.
Claiming people youve made wall of text after wall of text arguing with, lack a brain not perhaps realizing that simply by continuing to argue with them, that you lack a brain even more, by default, and despite the truth in said statement, I believe your intention was to insult us, and not yourself.
Cheers.