and did naruto master wind element? i'm not sure, i'll go check, but he learned how to use it, and then created 1 s rank jutsu , that was it, But that was his affinity element.. which according to kishi is easy training to master.... Now mastering a non affinity element will take ridicoulous time..
But kurama isn't sucking his chakra, or attempting to take him over, infact kurama can give him chakra, so that would reduce his training time as he can now increase his amount of clones.. he may just be able to do it in 2 years ..or less O.O considering kurama was said to have "unlimited" chakra , if not unlimited, aloooot..
and nah, viz scan stated 1000 genjutsu
you can buy the books
idk any short way :S, i just drag it into paint, crop it, save it , upload to imagur, takes like 10 secs
His nick name, the professor, was given to him for mastering over 1,000 jutsu and all of the jutsu in Konoha. It was never stated that he was more proficient with genjutsu than any other form of combat nor that he mastered 1,000 of them alone.
I'm starting to question these books you keep sourcing. I looked at them, filled with plot holes and they contradict the manga / anime a lot.
EDIT: About the paint thing I'll have to start using that, it wasn't directed at me but I'll +rep you and consider it a tip. ^^
His nick name, the professor, was given to him for mastering over 1,000 jutsu and all of the jutsu in Konoha. It was never stated that he was more proficient with genjutsu than any other form of combat nor that he mastered 1,000 of them alone.
I'm starting to question these books you keep sourcing. I looked at them, filled with plot holes and they contradict the manga / anime a lot.
EDIT: About the paint thing I'll have to start using that, it wasn't directed at me but I'll +rep you and consider it a tip. ^^
Agreed fully about the extent to which his form had dropped and nobody can disagree. This is how to make a thread. Well presented, well proven and posted coherently.
Agreed fully about the extent to which his form had dropped and nobody can disagree. This is how to make a thread. Well presented, well proven and posted coherently.
I've been wanting to make this thread for a while , But I have some time on my hands, so i thought why not t.t
In this thread I'll completely analyse ever aspect of hiruzen sarutobi, all his feats, hype, and i'll throw in a few guesses as well
Ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijutsu
- Without a doubt, Hiruzen Sarutobi was if not is one of the most skilled ninjas when it comes to all the forms of ninja combat, Not saying that there aren't others who have surpassed him individually, But i don't believe anyone has surpassed his expert allroundedness...
We are first introduced to Sarutobi Hiruzen as Hokage of the leaf village.. His skill in nijutsu rivaling that of Hatake kakashi , in that he was capable of using over 1000 different types of jutsu
You must be registered for see images
Ofc this is no small feat, Having an arsenal of that amount of jutsu would take a very long time for most, but it would ensure that you have a counter for almost every attack possible in a battle..
Further information on Hiruzen, by orochimaru, indicates that he was once given the title Professor
You must be registered for see images
Hiruzen, at one point in the past was able to use EVERY existing Konoha jutsu ,
Do note orochimaru's wording, he not only spoke in past tense , but used the word existing.. meaning operating at a current time... This means hiruzen was not able to use every konoha jutsu that EVER existed.. He is not sayinig that... Hiruzen was able to use every jutsu, of the people currently alive in Konoha.. which would probably include ninjas like Sakume hatake ... .
If you've read this far you're probably thinking that using every existing konoha jutsu would require 5 elements? , Well yes, I'm here to explain to you that Hiruzen had 4-5 elements, He may not have had wind since it's rare in Konoha, but it's likely at least one person had it ...
I already know you're going to say
"It's impossible to have 5 elements , without rinnegan that is"
WRONG , infact Anyone can learn all the elements, it would just take a ridculous amount of time for most.. But hiruzen is no normal ninja...He is a genius with skills in ninjutsu beyond anyone ever seen in the manga bar nagato.... Members of his clan also seem to have some sort of talent in learning jutsu extremely fast, as seen with konohamaru ....
But back to the chakra,
You must be registered for see images
In this first databook page, you see kishi says " While it depends on the person, Most individuals can tap into one chakra nature easily. At the jonin level, most can use two or more"
This corelates with what Kakashi said.. NOWHERE has kakashi said that 1 or 2 was your limit... he simply said that you are born with an AFFINITY... this is the element that best suits you... You learn it easier than all the rest... Jonins, usually have their affinity + one other element..
Further proof that anyone can learn 5 elements is
You must be registered for see images
Kishi's clear and exact words- " Mastery of all natures can take years of training"
^ , I do hope this will end the debate on whether a person can get 5 elements.. The thing different about Nagato was that he was capable of doing it at a VERY young age, IMPOSSIBLE for most....
You must be registered for see images
Hiruzen was stated in the manga to be incredibly skilled in genjutsu, knowing over 1000 of them ALONE .... and mastering each one... along wiith the 5 he was giving in databooks, it shows his expertise in this skill..
Hiruzen's taijutsu in his old form was still extremely good... despite it being significantly weaker than his prime performance according to enma... He was still armed with tricks that even orochimaru missed and was surprised at..
You must be registered for see images
Prime
Hiruzen's prime state, has been given unrivaled hype throughout this manga... there is no other character but the so6p that was given any better hype than him...
We have his statement from iruka
You must be registered for see images
Stating that he was considered the strongest hokage of all.. Note this is not a direct statement, nor is it Iruka's OPINION..... iruka is simply stating, that a majority of people , consider Hiruzen as the strongest of the former hokage....
Next up we have Kabuto's statement ..
You must be registered for see images
Kabuto, if you haven't realized, Is a very informative person... He has been a spy all his life and thus has a load of knowledge from past and present events... He has spied in every village since a child , and knows things others don't know
You must be registered for see images
So when kabuto says that a majority of people consider hiruzen to have been the strongest kage, once again it isn't his opinion.. it's the opinion of many villages, data that he's collected over years ,the opinion of masses.. that hiruzen was without a doubt stronger....
But what makes hiruzen this strong? what made him so powerful that people would call him a god of shinobi?
We have a man that has mastered ninjutsu, all forms... Trained by both the former hokages, And who's databook ranking in his old age, scored almost all 5's...
You must be registered for see images
Apart from the things that would have obviously declined with age...
Here we have hiruzen's statement that unlike before , he found enma heavy, showing a significant decrease in strength..
You must be registered for see images
enma's statement that, his overall performance in taijutsu was lacking...
You must be registered for see images
and finally statements by anbu members that hiruzen's chakra has significantly decreased since his prime, which affects his stanima greatly
You must be registered for see images
People bring up that fight oro as an attempt to bellitle his power, and call his hype lies... but they fail to realize that he was just in a horrible condition..
You must be registered for see images
One where his stanima is ridiculously low, he can't use any of his powerful jutsu, or ANY chakra taxing jutsu.. nothing...
You must be registered for see images
A man who could not perform in battle..
jutsu like moukouton, which orochimaru and enma hinted he could have dodged, he wasn't able to...
You must be registered for see images
as enma said.. the battle was NOTHING like him atall..
But even then, even though hiruzen was so incredibly weak compared to his prime, Kishi still considered old hiruzen equal to oro..
You must be registered for see images
I'm not even nearly done with this thread i just looked at it though, and its too long , haven't even gotten to enma, which is a thread by himself...
Good thread man..+ rep..I agree especially on the part that 5 elements can be mastered even w/o rinnegan. Well, only a very talented shinobi can do that and Hiruzen w/o a doubt is one of them. He's a hokage for some reason...I'm not saying that he did master all elements but there's a possibility that he did...only kishi knows I guess..though I agree with you on this, I don't agree that he is the strongest hokage. I believe that the continuation of your thread includes that he is the strongest hokage...xd Anyways, good job..nice thread...
I read it and I still don't care for Hiruzen because fanboys always say that he could beat people like Edo Madara or Nagato, which unless he were lucky and used the death reaper seal, he couldn't even pull a draw against.
I agree 100%. I've always viewed prime Hiruzen as a massively overpowered Jiraiya, with an insanely deep and varied arsenal and huge physical abilities. Not to mention his great intelligence and shinobi sense, and vast knowledge of jutsu.
A further point i'd like to make is the assumption many make that Hashirama and Tobirama were weaker than their prime. Imo, this is simply down to the vast power differences between part 1 and shippuden, Orochimaru was said to have perfected the technique. Kishi fleshed out Hashirama and Tobirama (through minato) much more in shippuden, but Hiruzen's part of the story is done so I guess he felt the hype was enough
If you want to expand on this thread, I suggest you focus on the myth that Hiruzen can't defeat people with great kg like Nagato,Madara,Hashirama etc. It's a very flawed and baseless idea imo, and the main reason Hiruzen is unappreaciated
I agree 100%. I've always viewed prime Hiruzen as a massively overpowered Jiraiya, with an insanely deep and varied arsenal and huge physical abilities. Not to mention his great intelligence and shinobi sense, and vast knowledge of jutsu.
A further point i'd like to make is the assumption many make that Hashirama and Tobirama were weaker than their prime. Imo, this is simply down to the vast power differences between part 1 and shippuden, Orochimaru was said to have perfected the technique. Kishi fleshed out Hashirama and Tobirama (through minato) much more in shippuden, but Hiruzen's part of the story is done so I guess he felt the hype was enough
If you want to expand on this thread, I suggest you focus on the myth that Hiruzen can't defeat people with great kg like Nagato,Madara,Hashirama etc. It's a very flawed and baseless idea imo, and the main reason Hiruzen is unappreaciated
I've been wanting to make this thread for a while , But I have some time on my hands, so i thought why not t.t
In this thread I'll completely analyse ever aspect of hiruzen sarutobi, all his feats, hype, and i'll throw in a few guesses as well
Ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijutsu
- Without a doubt, Hiruzen Sarutobi was if not is one of the most skilled ninjas when it comes to all the forms of ninja combat, Not saying that there aren't others who have surpassed him individually, But i don't believe anyone has surpassed his expert allroundedness...
We are first introduced to Sarutobi Hiruzen as Hokage of the leaf village.. His skill in nijutsu rivaling that of Hatake kakashi , in that he was capable of using over 1000 different types of jutsu
You must be registered for see images
Ofc this is no small feat, Having an arsenal of that amount of jutsu would take a very long time for most, but it would ensure that you have a counter for almost every attack possible in a battle..
Further information on Hiruzen, by orochimaru, indicates that he was once given the title Professor
You must be registered for see images
Hiruzen, at one point in the past was able to use EVERY existing Konoha jutsu ,
Do note orochimaru's wording, he not only spoke in past tense , but used the word existing.. meaning operating at a current time... This means hiruzen was not able to use every konoha jutsu that EVER existed.. He is not sayinig that... Hiruzen was able to use every jutsu, of the people currently alive in Konoha.. which would probably include ninjas like Sakume hatake ... .
If you've read this far you're probably thinking that using every existing konoha jutsu would require 5 elements? , Well yes, I'm here to explain to you that Hiruzen had 4-5 elements, He may not have had wind since it's rare in Konoha, but it's likely at least one person had it ...
I already know you're going to say
"It's impossible to have 5 elements , without rinnegan that is"
WRONG , infact Anyone can learn all the elements, it would just take a ridculous amount of time for most.. But hiruzen is no normal ninja...He is a genius with skills in ninjutsu beyond anyone ever seen in the manga bar nagato.... Members of his clan also seem to have some sort of talent in learning jutsu extremely fast, as seen with konohamaru ....
But back to the chakra,
You must be registered for see images
In this first databook page, you see kishi says " While it depends on the person, Most individuals can tap into one chakra nature easily. At the jonin level, most can use two or more"
This corelates with what Kakashi said.. NOWHERE has kakashi said that 1 or 2 was your limit... he simply said that you are born with an AFFINITY... this is the element that best suits you... You learn it easier than all the rest... Jonins, usually have their affinity + one other element..
Further proof that anyone can learn 5 elements is
You must be registered for see images
Kishi's clear and exact words- " Mastery of all natures can take years of training"
^ , I do hope this will end the debate on whether a person can get 5 elements.. The thing different about Nagato was that he was capable of doing it at a VERY young age, IMPOSSIBLE for most....
You must be registered for see images
Hiruzen was stated in the manga to be incredibly skilled in genjutsu, knowing over 1000 of them ALONE .... and mastering each one... along wiith the 5 he was giving in databooks, it shows his expertise in this skill..
Hiruzen's taijutsu in his old form was still extremely good... despite it being significantly weaker than his prime performance according to enma... He was still armed with tricks that even orochimaru missed and was surprised at..
You must be registered for see images
Prime
Hiruzen's prime state, has been given unrivaled hype throughout this manga... there is no other character but the so6p that was given any better hype than him...
We have his statement from iruka
You must be registered for see images
Stating that he was considered the strongest hokage of all.. Note this is not a direct statement, nor is it Iruka's OPINION..... iruka is simply stating, that a majority of people , consider Hiruzen as the strongest of the former hokage....
Next up we have Kabuto's statement ..
You must be registered for see images
Kabuto, if you haven't realized, Is a very informative person... He has been a spy all his life and thus has a load of knowledge from past and present events... He has spied in every village since a child , and knows things others don't know
You must be registered for see images
So when kabuto says that a majority of people consider hiruzen to have been the strongest kage, once again it isn't his opinion.. it's the opinion of many villages, data that he's collected over years ,the opinion of masses.. that hiruzen was without a doubt stronger....
But what makes hiruzen this strong? what made him so powerful that people would call him a god of shinobi?
We have a man that has mastered ninjutsu, all forms... Trained by both the former hokages, And who's databook ranking in his old age, scored almost all 5's...
You must be registered for see images
Apart from the things that would have obviously declined with age...
Here we have hiruzen's statement that unlike before , he found enma heavy, showing a significant decrease in strength..
You must be registered for see images
enma's statement that, his overall performance in taijutsu was lacking...
You must be registered for see images
and finally statements by anbu members that hiruzen's chakra has significantly decreased since his prime, which affects his stanima greatly
You must be registered for see images
People bring up that fight oro as an attempt to bellitle his power, and call his hype lies... but they fail to realize that he was just in a horrible condition..
You must be registered for see images
One where his stanima is ridiculously low, he can't use any of his powerful jutsu, or ANY chakra taxing jutsu.. nothing...
You must be registered for see images
A man who could not perform in battle..
jutsu like moukouton, which orochimaru and enma hinted he could have dodged, he wasn't able to...
You must be registered for see images
as enma said.. the battle was NOTHING like him atall..
But even then, even though hiruzen was so incredibly weak compared to his prime, Kishi still considered old hiruzen equal to oro..
You must be registered for see images
I'm not even nearly done with this thread i just looked at it though, and its too long , haven't even gotten to enma, which is a thread by himself...
I've been wanting to make this thread for a while , But I have some time on my hands, so i thought why not t.t
In this thread I'll completely analyse ever aspect of hiruzen sarutobi, all his feats, hype, and i'll throw in a few guesses as well
Ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijutsu
- Without a doubt, Hiruzen Sarutobi was if not is one of the most skilled ninjas when it comes to all the forms of ninja combat, Not saying that there aren't others who have surpassed him individually, But i don't believe anyone has surpassed his expert allroundedness...
We are first introduced to Sarutobi Hiruzen as Hokage of the leaf village.. His skill in nijutsu rivaling that of Hatake kakashi , in that he was capable of using over 1000 different types of jutsu
You must be registered for see images
Ofc this is no small feat, Having an arsenal of that amount of jutsu would take a very long time for most, but it would ensure that you have a counter for almost every attack possible in a battle..
Further information on Hiruzen, by orochimaru, indicates that he was once given the title Professor
You must be registered for see images
Hiruzen, at one point in the past was able to use EVERY existing Konoha jutsu ,
Do note orochimaru's wording, he not only spoke in past tense , but used the word existing.. meaning operating at a current time... This means hiruzen was not able to use every konoha jutsu that EVER existed.. He is not sayinig that... Hiruzen was able to use every jutsu, of the people currently alive in Konoha.. which would probably include ninjas like Sakume hatake ... .
If you've read this far you're probably thinking that using every existing konoha jutsu would require 5 elements? , Well yes, I'm here to explain to you that Hiruzen had 4-5 elements, He may not have had wind since it's rare in Konoha, but it's likely at least one person had it ...
I already know you're going to say
"It's impossible to have 5 elements , without rinnegan that is"
WRONG , infact Anyone can learn all the elements, it would just take a ridculous amount of time for most.. But hiruzen is no normal ninja...He is a genius with skills in ninjutsu beyond anyone ever seen in the manga bar nagato.... Members of his clan also seem to have some sort of talent in learning jutsu extremely fast, as seen with konohamaru ....
But back to the chakra,
You must be registered for see images
In this first databook page, you see kishi says " While it depends on the person, Most individuals can tap into one chakra nature easily. At the jonin level, most can use two or more"
This corelates with what Kakashi said.. NOWHERE has kakashi said that 1 or 2 was your limit... he simply said that you are born with an AFFINITY... this is the element that best suits you... You learn it easier than all the rest... Jonins, usually have their affinity + one other element..
Further proof that anyone can learn 5 elements is
You must be registered for see images
Kishi's clear and exact words- " Mastery of all natures can take years of training"
^ , I do hope this will end the debate on whether a person can get 5 elements.. The thing different about Nagato was that he was capable of doing it at a VERY young age, IMPOSSIBLE for most....
You must be registered for see images
Hiruzen was stated in the manga to be incredibly skilled in genjutsu, knowing over 1000 of them ALONE .... and mastering each one... along wiith the 5 he was giving in databooks, it shows his expertise in this skill..
Hiruzen's taijutsu in his old form was still extremely good... despite it being significantly weaker than his prime performance according to enma... He was still armed with tricks that even orochimaru missed and was surprised at..
You must be registered for see images
Prime
Hiruzen's prime state, has been given unrivaled hype throughout this manga... there is no other character but the so6p that was given any better hype than him...
We have his statement from iruka
You must be registered for see images
Stating that he was considered the strongest hokage of all.. Note this is not a direct statement, nor is it Iruka's OPINION..... iruka is simply stating, that a majority of people , consider Hiruzen as the strongest of the former hokage....
Next up we have Kabuto's statement ..
You must be registered for see images
Kabuto, if you haven't realized, Is a very informative person... He has been a spy all his life and thus has a load of knowledge from past and present events... He has spied in every village since a child , and knows things others don't know
You must be registered for see images
So when kabuto says that a majority of people consider hiruzen to have been the strongest kage, once again it isn't his opinion.. it's the opinion of many villages, data that he's collected over years ,the opinion of masses.. that hiruzen was without a doubt stronger....
But what makes hiruzen this strong? what made him so powerful that people would call him a god of shinobi?
We have a man that has mastered ninjutsu, all forms... Trained by both the former hokages, And who's databook ranking in his old age, scored almost all 5's...
You must be registered for see images
Apart from the things that would have obviously declined with age...
Here we have hiruzen's statement that unlike before , he found enma heavy, showing a significant decrease in strength..
You must be registered for see images
enma's statement that, his overall performance in taijutsu was lacking...
You must be registered for see images
and finally statements by anbu members that hiruzen's chakra has significantly decreased since his prime, which affects his stanima greatly
You must be registered for see images
People bring up that fight oro as an attempt to bellitle his power, and call his hype lies... but they fail to realize that he was just in a horrible condition..
You must be registered for see images
One where his stanima is ridiculously low, he can't use any of his powerful jutsu, or ANY chakra taxing jutsu.. nothing...
You must be registered for see images
A man who could not perform in battle..
jutsu like moukouton, which orochimaru and enma hinted he could have dodged, he wasn't able to...
You must be registered for see images
as enma said.. the battle was NOTHING like him atall..
But even then, even though hiruzen was so incredibly weak compared to his prime, Kishi still considered old hiruzen equal to oro..
You must be registered for see images
I'm not even nearly done with this thread i just looked at it though, and its too long , haven't even gotten to enma, which is a thread by himself...
