Only thing that changed was the power levels; meaning, the way the fights were in part one, people 'seemed' weaker than they actually were. I've heard alot of people say Hashirama and Tobirama were nerfed in that battle but next to no-one says Hiruzen, despite being 69, also had his power nerfed
And as Owarij said once, it's like you went out with Kishi and talked with him about the storyline over a cup of tea. How can you tell me that Kishi has changed his mind as the story progressed? Bring me some evidence of this. Kishi's notes or something because that argument is just laughable.
And you obviously miss the part where Orochimaru stabs Hiruzen lol, he sealed his Orochimaru's arms as a final attack because he knew he was about to die, this goes to the classic fighting game equation, the player whose life bar reaches 0 first lose, Hiruzen died, Orochimaru lives but can no longer use jutsu....who lost that battle again? lol
And why has the thread become the debate of WHO CAN BEAT MADARA OUT OF THE TWO CHOICES, My statement stays the same The Sage Of The Six Paths is the "Shinobi GOD"
who says that hiruzen lost.. they obviously miss the part where hiruzen took away oro's jutsus..
You cant say that though, because all people do is go off so6p's hype and consider him a god. Hashirama has shown nothing to show he is stronger than hiruzen other than hype.. Hiruzen knows all his jutsu and how to conter it..
Hashirama's feats>>>>>>Hiruzen's. Lol where's the evidence that Hiruzen knew all of Hashirama's jutsu? I see people spouting this nonsense with zero proof to back it up. Just because Hashirama was Hiruzen's teacher doesn't mean Hiruzen knew every jutsu he possessed, and more importantly knowing about a jutsu doesn't mean you can counter it.
What's Hiruzen going to do to Hashirama? Hit him with a few elemental jutsu? Lmao. Hashirama can creater an entire forest in an instant and on top of that a flower world as well with polen that can knock out an opponent. Not to mention his bringer of darkness jutsu. He also has his mokuton clone jutsu that only Madara could see through.
From what Hiruzen's shown he's definitely not at Hashirama's level, which is why people constantly point to hype because they know his feats put him far below Hashirama.
*Waiting for someone to bring up Hiruzen's fight against Hashirama and Tobirama*
Why is the thread become the debate of WHO CAN BEAT MADARA OUT OF THE TWO CHOICES, My statement stays the same The Sage Of The Six Paths is the "Shinobi GOD"
HAHAHA, i was wondering the same thing, the changed it from whose stronger between hiruzen and hashirama, to whose stronger between madara and hashirama
this alone voids hiruzens hype as the strongest hokage. when people heard of hashiramas strength they couldnt believe such a shinobi could exist and settled for hiruzen being the strongest because it seemed reasonable.
Until I see a jutsu from Hiruzen that is on the level of any of Hashirama's jutsu
Hashirama>>>>>Hiruzen
As for what the manga stated.Kishi has contradicted himself numerous times in the manga.People changed their minds, and from the power of all the shinobis we have seen in part 2, Kishi has obviously changed his mind on who is the strongest.
Hashirama's feats>>>>>>Hiruzen's. Lol where's the evidence that Hiruzen knew all of Hashirama's jutsu? I see people spouting this nonsense with zero proof to back it up. Just because Hashirama was Hiruzen's teacher doesn't mean Hiruzen knew every jutsu he possessed, and more importantly knowing about a jutsu doesn't mean you can counter it.
What's Hiruzen going to do to Hashirama? Hit him with a few elemental jutsu? Lmao. Hashirama can creater an entire forest in an instant and on top of that a flower world as well with polen that can knock out an opponent. Not to mention his bringer of darkness jutsu. He also has his mokuton clone jutsu that only Madara could see through.
From what Hiruzen's shown he's definitely not at Hashirama's level, which is why people constantly point to hype because they know his feats put him far below Hashirama.
*Waiting for someone to bring up Hiruzen's fight against Hashirama and Tobirama*
Hiruzen knows EVERY jutsu that came from the hidden leaf and we've never seen hiruzen in his PRIME, and we just recently seen hashirama in his prime by Ninja Storm Generations, But FACTS from the manga say that hiruzen was the strongest and the GOD OF SHINOBI, Hash was just the strongest shinobi of his time.
From my other thread. Skip to the end for the summary sentence (IF YOU DIDN'T READ ALL OF IT, DON'T BRING UP SOME BS THAT WAS EXPLAINED IN IT )
Quite clearly, we can see Iruka say that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage. Clearly.
You must be registered for see images
Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� � � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")
Hashirama:
You must be registered for see images
"Consider him a fairy tale like the Rikudo Sennin".
What does this mean? It means people could not believe there was a shinobi so powerful. It doesn't mean he was as strong as or anywhere near the So6P's level.
If Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga), it just means: So6P > Hiruzen > Hashirama. This goes nicely with his title as "God of Shinobi" but people always choose to ignore or disregard this title. He knew so many techniques, but was labelled "God of Shinobi". Why?
Kabuto then goes onto say:
"There aren't ninjas on the same level of the first Hokage Hashirama Senju anymore. "
What does this mean? Key word in this statement is 'ANYMORE' - Why is it the key word? Because it implies that there WERE people at his level - Namely, Hiruzen in his prime (who was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga as being the strongest hokage).
Here's a page people love to bring up:
You must be registered for see images
All this shows is that he was the strongest at that time. It doesn't take into account all the shinobi who came after that time, including Hiruzen. Unless you're suggesting people of that time could see into the future?
People seem to ignore the fact that Hiruzen defeated both the first and second Hokages at age 69, yonks after his prime years. So already, even if you have your suspicions about that fight, you were not watching the Hiruzen who was famed for his strength. Another point people try to use is that that fight didn't reflect the true powers of Hashirama and Tobirama (that they were nerfed), even though Orochimaru perfect Edo Tensei (the same level as Kabuto's). That is true. The power levels in part 1 & 2 were different so clearly it just didn't reflect Hiruzen's ability fairly either. Moreover, Hiruzen defeated them in his old age - He was strongest in his prime (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga).
'Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure.'
So even though he defeated the previous two Hokages, his own summoning labelled him as POOR COMPARED TO HIS PRIME.
KEY POINT: People ASSUME that Kishi has changed his mind in regards to who is the strongest or the plot. Do you have Proof? Evidence? Anything? Or just your subjective, opinionated thoughts? Because when debating about these kind of things, objective FACTS are the only things which have any value.
Lets have a quick peak at the data book entries:
Even if you point out that Iruka could have some bias or that characters that have stated this don't know anything, Kishimoto himself says in every databook that Hiruzen in his prime was the most powerful Hokage. In the first databook alone, this is stated at least three times:
Page 117: "He is such a genius ninja that he was even called the 'Professor', and he still garners everyone's respect as the strongest Hokage in history." (「„プロフェッサー”と呼ばれたほ� �� �� ��の天才忍者であり、歴代最強の�� � �影 として皆の尊敬を集め続ける。」, "'Purofessā' to yobareta hodo no tensai ninja de ari, rekidai saikyō no Hokage toshite mina no sonkei o atsume tsuzukeru")
Page 119: "'Strongest in history', 'genius', et cetera, the words used to describe the Third Hokage are filled with respect." (「„歴代最強”„天才”など、三代� �� �� ��火影を形容する言葉は賞賛に満�� � �て いる。」, "'Rekidai saikyō' 'tensai' nado, Sandaime Hokage o keiyōsuru kotoba wa shōsan ni michite iru.")
Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")
Being old=/= being irrelevant. Both the 2nd AND the 3rd databook state the same thing.
These words are clear and impossible to misinterperet.
In the databook, he achieved 5's in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu. FACT. All he is missing is speed, stamina, and strength which declined greatly with age, as mentioned by himself, orochimaru and Enma.
You can talk all day about 'Hiruzen can't beat him', 'Hiruzen can't counter this', but at the end of the day, these are just your opinion. we must look at FACTS in the databook and manga. You don't need to see Hiruzen in his prime if the manga states he was the strongest. Unless you believe the manga is wrong?
This isn't about 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Hashirama' or 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Itachi'. This is not a vs thread. It is to point out that, at this current moment in time, the author has bluntly hyped Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage. It was said so clearly and with such certainty. You cannot argue with the author.
Let me just say that its Kishimoto himself that has given Hiruzen the reputation he has, through statements in the manga. And you can't claim that the creator of the Narutoverse is wrong, his word is law, he is god in that world. When Kishimoto says "he is this", no-one can say anything against it. There are very few characters in the whole manga that have been given a reputation even close to Hiruzens, by Kishimoto. You can argue all you like about 'I wanna see feats', but if the author himself has shown Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage in the manga through word alone this cannot be argued with.
Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage. No ifs. No buts. It was blunt. How can you refute that? Simply look at the manga.
Hiruzen knows EVERY jutsu that came from the hidden leaf and we've never seen hiruzen in his PRIME, and we just recently seen hashirama in his prime by Ninja Storm Generations, But FACTS from the manga say that hiruzen was the strongest and the GOD OF SHINOBI, Hash was just the strongest shinobi of his time.
he couldnt perform all of the existing jutsu in konoha. kekkai genkai techs and hidden jutsus are just no. that alone proves that about 40% of his hype is a lie. also you see the scroll that had 1000+ jutsus on it that naruto stole in part 1. that was hashiramas.
Until I see a jutsu from Hiruzen that is on the level of any of Hashirama's jutsu
Hashirama>>>>>Hiruzen
As for what the manga stated.Kishi has contradicted himself numerous times in the manga.People changed their minds, and from the power of all the shinobis we have seen in part 2, Kishi has obviously changed his mind on who is the strongest.
Ok, ,i ask you this.. Whose strong so6p or hashirama.. you will say so6p, but you've never seen any of his feats. You've only heard rumors or legends, yet you say so6p.. Whats so diffrent from hiruzen, we've heard rumor and legends that he is the strongest and we've actually seen him beat hashirama.
Hiruzen knows EVERY jutsu that came from the hidden leaf and we've never seen hiruzen in his PRIME, and we just recently seen hashirama in his prime by Ninja Storm Generations, But FACTS from the manga say that hiruzen was the strongest and the GOD OF SHINOBI, Hash was just the strongest shinobi of his time.
Are you intentionally trying to sound ignore.Hiruzen made know every jutsu in the leaf, but he can do them, so it doesn't matter.Ninja Storm is a videogames, so there isn't anything in that game that factually relates to the manga.Like I have said in previous discussion on this topic, the manga is full of contradictions, and many things that were consider facts early on in the series has been discredited with new information.
Ok, ,i ask you this.. Whose strong so6p or hashirama.. you will say so6p, but you've never seen any of his feats. You've only heard rumors or legends, yet you say so6p.. Whats so diffrent from hiruzen, we've heard rumor and legends that he is the strongest and we've actually seen him beat hashirama.
Now I know you are serious being stupid.Let me explain this in a way even someone like you might understand.
Information on The Sage Of The Six Paths
He had the Rinnegan. See abilities of Rinnegan.
He defeat the combine power of all nine tail beast, the ten tails.
He created all ninjutsu
He created the Moon
He could used all nature elements
Creation of All Things jutsu
He was the source of Both the Uchiha and The Senju Clan
These things aren't rumors or legend, but facts.We know he exist from the memories of all the tail beast.We know he had creation of all things jutsu, a jutsu which allow him to create something out of nothing , from the tail beast.We know he had the rinnegan from Madara. Tobi, and Kabuto's research and knowledge.All the jutsus,abilities, and history of the sage of the six paths has been confirmed, which is how we can assess his power.Which is why anyone would say the sage is stronger than all shinobi.So I don't get why would you asked such a stupid question of what's the different between The Sage and Hiruzen, when it's so clear that there isn't anything we know about Hiruzen that makes him overpowering.The jutsu we have seen from Hiruzen aren't anything compare to what we have seen of Hashirama jutsus.
And Hiruzen beating a Edo Hashirama who didn't use any of his most powerful techniques isn't much of a accomplishment.
Hiruzen knows EVERY jutsu that came from the hidden leaf and we've never seen hiruzen in his PRIME, and we just recently seen hashirama in his prime by Ninja Storm Generations, But FACTS from the manga say that hiruzen was the strongest and the GOD OF SHINOBI, Hash was just the strongest shinobi of his time.
I smell something, but what is it? Oh I know....a complete lack of logic in this post.
So Hiruzen's stronger because he's the god of shinobi right? Yes that's great logic at its finest :|
Manga scan please? Last time I checked Hiruzen knows about every existing jutsu of the leaf, not EVERY single jutsu in the history of the leaf. That's what the viz scans say.
You completely lost your credibility with me when you brought up the Ninja Storm Generations Video. That's NON CANON meaning it has zero relevance with the manga.
From my other thread. Skip to the end for the summary sentence (IF YOU DIDN'T READ ALL OF IT, DON'T BRING UP SOME BS THAT WAS EXPLAINED IN IT )
Quite clearly, we can see Iruka say that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage. Clearly.
You must be registered for see images
Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� � � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")
Hashirama:
You must be registered for see images
"Consider him a fairy tale like the Rikudo Sennin".
What does this mean? It means people could not believe there was a shinobi so powerful. It doesn't mean he was as strong as or anywhere near the So6P's level.
If Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga), it just means: So6P > Hiruzen > Hashirama. This goes nicely with his title as "God of Shinobi" but people always choose to ignore or disregard this title. He knew so many techniques, but was labelled "God of Shinobi". Why?
Kabuto then goes onto say:
"There aren't ninjas on the same level of the first Hokage Hashirama Senju anymore. "
What does this mean? Key word in this statement is 'ANYMORE' - Why is it the key word? Because it implies that there WERE people at his level - Namely, Hiruzen in his prime (who was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga as being the strongest hokage).
Here's a page people love to bring up:
You must be registered for see images
All this shows is that he was the strongest at that time. It doesn't take into account all the shinobi who came after that time, including Hiruzen. Unless you're suggesting people of that time could see into the future?
People seem to ignore the fact that Hiruzen defeated both the first and second Hokages at age 69, yonks after his prime years. So already, even if you have your suspicions about that fight, you were not watching the Hiruzen who was famed for his strength. Another point people try to use is that that fight didn't reflect the true powers of Hashirama and Tobirama (that they were nerfed), even though Orochimaru perfect Edo Tensei (the same level as Kabuto's). That is true. The power levels in part 1 & 2 were different so clearly it just didn't reflect Hiruzen's ability fairly either. Moreover, Hiruzen defeated them in his old age - He was strongest in his prime (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga).
'Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure.'
So even though he defeated the previous two Hokages, his own summoning labelled him as POOR COMPARED TO HIS PRIME.
KEY POINT: People ASSUME that Kishi has changed his mind in regards to who is the strongest or the plot. Do you have Proof? Evidence? Anything? Or just your subjective, opinionated thoughts? Because when debating about these kind of things, objective FACTS are the only things which have any value.
Lets have a quick peak at the data book entries:
Even if you point out that Iruka could have some bias or that characters that have stated this don't know anything, Kishimoto himself says in every databook that Hiruzen in his prime was the most powerful Hokage. In the first databook alone, this is stated at least three times:
Page 117: "He is such a genius ninja that he was even called the 'Professor', and he still garners everyone's respect as the strongest Hokage in history." (「„プロフェッサー”と呼ばれたほ� �� �� ��の天才忍者であり、歴代最強の�� � �影 として皆の尊敬を集め続ける。」, "'Purofessā' to yobareta hodo no tensai ninja de ari, rekidai saikyō no Hokage toshite mina no sonkei o atsume tsuzukeru")
Page 119: "'Strongest in history', 'genius', et cetera, the words used to describe the Third Hokage are filled with respect." (「„歴代最強”„天才”など、三代� �� �� ��火影を形容する言葉は賞賛に満�� � �て いる。」, "'Rekidai saikyō' 'tensai' nado, Sandaime Hokage o keiyōsuru kotoba wa shōsan ni michite iru.")
Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")
Being old=/= being irrelevant. Both the 2nd AND the 3rd databook state the same thing.
These words are clear and impossible to misinterperet.
In the databook, he achieved 5's in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu. FACT. All he is missing is speed, stamina, and strength which declined greatly with age, as mentioned by himself, orochimaru and Enma.
You can talk all day about 'Hiruzen can't beat him', 'Hiruzen can't counter this', but at the end of the day, these are just your opinion. we must look at FACTS in the databook and manga. You don't need to see Hiruzen in his prime if the manga states he was the strongest. Unless you believe the manga is wrong?
This isn't about 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Hashirama' or 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Itachi'. This is not a vs thread. It is to point out that, at this current moment in time, the author has bluntly hyped Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage. It was said so clearly and with such certainty. You cannot argue with the author.
Let me just say that its Kishimoto himself that has given Hiruzen the reputation he has, through statements in the manga. And you can't claim that the creator of the Narutoverse is wrong, his word is law, he is god in that world. When Kishimoto says "he is this", no-one can say anything against it. There are very few characters in the whole manga that have been given a reputation even close to Hiruzens, by Kishimoto. You can argue all you like about 'I wanna see feats', but if the author himself has shown Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage in the manga through word alone this cannot be argued with.
Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage. No ifs. No buts. It was blunt. How can you refute that? Simply look at the manga.
The manga states a lot of things that aren't true. People seem to want to believe that Kishi's a God and he doesn't make mistakes. The fact is he's contradicted himself several times in this manga.
By your logic Itachi's invincible, amaterasu can't be avoided, Minato strength is unparalleled, Minato himself is an unparalleled shinobi, amaterasu is as hot as the sun, Tobi is Madara, Tobi didn't summon the kyuubi to attack the leaf village, and etc. Since Kishi's word is law then none of these can be refuted by your logic.
It seems some people have never heard of contradictions or hyperbole.
From my other thread. Skip to the end for the summary sentence (IF YOU DIDN'T READ ALL OF IT, DON'T BRING UP SOME BS THAT WAS EXPLAINED IN IT )
Quite clearly, we can see Iruka say that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage. Clearly.
You must be registered for see images
Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� � � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")
Hashirama:
You must be registered for see images
"Consider him a fairy tale like the Rikudo Sennin".
What does this mean? It means people could not believe there was a shinobi so powerful. It doesn't mean he was as strong as or anywhere near the So6P's level.
If Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga), it just means: So6P > Hiruzen > Hashirama. This goes nicely with his title as "God of Shinobi" but people always choose to ignore or disregard this title. He knew so many techniques, but was labelled "God of Shinobi". Why?
Kabuto then goes onto say:
"There aren't ninjas on the same level of the first Hokage Hashirama Senju anymore. "
What does this mean? Key word in this statement is 'ANYMORE' - Why is it the key word? Because it implies that there WERE people at his level - Namely, Hiruzen in his prime (who was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga as being the strongest hokage).
Here's a page people love to bring up:
You must be registered for see images
All this shows is that he was the strongest at that time. It doesn't take into account all the shinobi who came after that time, including Hiruzen. Unless you're suggesting people of that time could see into the future?
People seem to ignore the fact that Hiruzen defeated both the first and second Hokages at age 69, yonks after his prime years. So already, even if you have your suspicions about that fight, you were not watching the Hiruzen who was famed for his strength. Another point people try to use is that that fight didn't reflect the true powers of Hashirama and Tobirama (that they were nerfed), even though Orochimaru perfect Edo Tensei (the same level as Kabuto's). That is true. The power levels in part 1 & 2 were different so clearly it just didn't reflect Hiruzen's ability fairly either. Moreover, Hiruzen defeated them in his old age - He was strongest in his prime (which was clearly and undeniably stated in the manga).
'Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure.'
So even though he defeated the previous two Hokages, his own summoning labelled him as POOR COMPARED TO HIS PRIME.
KEY POINT: People ASSUME that Kishi has changed his mind in regards to who is the strongest or the plot. Do you have Proof? Evidence? Anything? Or just your subjective, opinionated thoughts? Because when debating about these kind of things, objective FACTS are the only things which have any value.
Lets have a quick peak at the data book entries:
Even if you point out that Iruka could have some bias or that characters that have stated this don't know anything, Kishimoto himself says in every databook that Hiruzen in his prime was the most powerful Hokage. In the first databook alone, this is stated at least three times:
Page 117: "He is such a genius ninja that he was even called the 'Professor', and he still garners everyone's respect as the strongest Hokage in history." (「„プロフェッサー”と呼ばれたほ� �� �� ��の天才忍者であり、歴代最強の�� � �影 として皆の尊敬を集め続ける。」, "'Purofessā' to yobareta hodo no tensai ninja de ari, rekidai saikyō no Hokage toshite mina no sonkei o atsume tsuzukeru")
Page 119: "'Strongest in history', 'genius', et cetera, the words used to describe the Third Hokage are filled with respect." (「„歴代最強”„天才”など、三代� �� �� ��火影を形容する言葉は賞賛に満�� � �て いる。」, "'Rekidai saikyō' 'tensai' nado, Sandaime Hokage o keiyōsuru kotoba wa shōsan ni michite iru.")
Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と� �� �� ��われ、„忍の神”と謳われたこ�� � �も 。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")
Being old=/= being irrelevant. Both the 2nd AND the 3rd databook state the same thing.
These words are clear and impossible to misinterperet.
In the databook, he achieved 5's in Ninjutsu, Taijutsu and Genjutsu. FACT. All he is missing is speed, stamina, and strength which declined greatly with age, as mentioned by himself, orochimaru and Enma.
You can talk all day about 'Hiruzen can't beat him', 'Hiruzen can't counter this', but at the end of the day, these are just your opinion. we must look at FACTS in the databook and manga. You don't need to see Hiruzen in his prime if the manga states he was the strongest. Unless you believe the manga is wrong?
This isn't about 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Hashirama' or 'Hiruzen (prime) can defeat Itachi'. This is not a vs thread. It is to point out that, at this current moment in time, the author has bluntly hyped Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage. It was said so clearly and with such certainty. You cannot argue with the author.
Let me just say that its Kishimoto himself that has given Hiruzen the reputation he has, through statements in the manga. And you can't claim that the creator of the Narutoverse is wrong, his word is law, he is god in that world. When Kishimoto says "he is this", no-one can say anything against it. There are very few characters in the whole manga that have been given a reputation even close to Hiruzens, by Kishimoto. You can argue all you like about 'I wanna see feats', but if the author himself has shown Hiruzen to be the strongest Hokage in the manga through word alone this cannot be argued with.
Hiruzen was said to be the strongest Hokage. No ifs. No buts. It was blunt. How can you refute that? Simply look at the manga.
I still base any if not my whole opinion upon the fact is Hiruzen`s mastery of anything has been shown to be poor on amount of evidence(just as Hashirama´s).
Most we get, is "people" saying their is a jutsu based on his tech on genetic powered, but seen on manga Is only "good enough" fighting and nothing Else "remains"
he couldnt perform all of the existing jutsu in konoha. kekkai genkai techs and hidden jutsus are just no. that alone proves that about 40% of his hype is a lie. also you see the scroll that had 1000+ jutsus on it that naruto stole in part 1. that was hashiramas.
I didnt say he could do, i said he knows.. Ill rephrase.. He knows of all jutsu in the hidden leaf,.. nothing would suprise him and im sure he can think of a counter to all jutsus, cause itachi says every jutsus has a weakness..xd
I didnt say he could do, i said he knows.. Ill rephrase.. He knows of all jutsu in the hidden leaf,.. nothing would suprise him and im sure he can think of a counter to all jutsus, cause itachi says every jutsus has a weakness..xd
Prime Hiruzen was not in Hashirama's Era. It was long after Tobirama died who was Hokage after Hashirama.
Everything in the post was from the manga. Everything. No opinion. Nothing. Your argument has already been proven to be poor so I won't even waste my time.
Prime Hiruzen was not in Hashirama's Era. It was long after Tobirama died who was Hokage after Hashirama.
Everything in the post was from the manga. Everything. No opinion. Nothing. Your argument has already been proven to be poor so I won't even waste my time.
sorry got my time frames mixed up. when hiruzen shows feats that put him on par with hashirama then hirzen could be>hashirama. orochimaru said if hiruzen was only 10 years younger he couldve beaten him. what was this god mode hiruzen doing during the nine tails attack, crying for minato.
