Hiruzen (god debate)

[Thewargoeson]

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What does this link prove? this thread has nothing to do with minato?

 

[Thewargoeson]

learning a technique , attempting and failing and adjusting and trying again to master it, takes time and energy, time and energy i doubt he would be devoting in his 50's and 60's, youre folly if youre assuming he continued the same manner of learning and training from his prime well into his old age, namely mastering all the jutsu in konoha, there was a reason he stepped down as hokage

U keep making it sound like learning one jutsu is far to much for a 60 year old hiruzen. Although he didn't have as much stamina as In his prime it wudnt push him near to death to learn a jutsu like chidori. And sure he didn't practice as much but as a ninja who knows all things about being a ninja I'm sure he knows tht he has to still train. So yes I do believe he had both the time and the ability to learn knew ninjutsu

 

[The 4]

Hiruzen was killed by oro. Sasuke killed oro Naruto was said to be stronger than sasuke at a time. Hiruzen was probably in the top 50 or 100

 

[Thewargoeson]

Hiruzen was killed by oro. Sasuke killed oro Naruto was said to be stronger than sasuke at a time. Hiruzen was probably in the top 50 or 100

as i said earlier A>B>C logic doesnt work.
each character cud have an advantage in differrent types of fights. it wudnt make them better

 

[Son of God]

What does this link prove? this thread has nothing to do with minato?

Look closely at the side of the image. You'll see an interesting statement - OUTSIDE of character bias.

 

[Thewargoeson]

Look closely at the side of the image. You'll see an interesting statement - OUTSIDE of character bias.

i saw it. im confused as to how it is relevant

 

[Son of God]

i saw it. im confused as to how it is relevant

Oh wow.. Lol - I'll let you stay confused.

 

[Thewargoeson]

Oh wow.. Lol - I'll let you stay confused.

ur decision.
and again ill say this thread isnt about minato being the best or deciding which kage is the strongest. it was about saying how 1. we cant decide who's stronger. and 2. people rly shudnt underestimate hiruzen.

 

[ANBU Kakashi23]

U keep making it sound like learning one jutsu is far to much for a 60 year old hiruzen. Although he didn't have as much stamina as In his prime it wudnt push him near to death to learn a jutsu like chidori. And sure he didn't practice as much but as a ninja who knows all things about being a ninja I'm sure he knows tht he has to still train. So yes I do believe he had both the time and the ability to learn knew ninjutsu

im just going to call this a difference of opinion, you seem to feel like he knew all jutsu in konoha during his entire 50 odd year reign as hokage, i feel thats false and youre misinterpreting what oro said, but do each his own

 

[Thewargoeson]

im just going to call this a difference of opinion, you seem to feel like he knew all jutsu in konoha during his entire 50 odd year reign as hokage, i feel thats false and youre misinterpreting what oro said, but do each his own

Fair enough, to each their own

 

[Wukong]

Hiruzen was holding his own in the Battle with Edo Hashirama,

"Hiruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history. In fact, he was so powerful that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had. "

Hiruzen was a student under the Second Hokage which he also trained with the First Hokage, also knowing all the Jutsu's in Kohana then I would have to say Hiruzen would be more fit. Also if you pay close attention the next generation has always became stronger then the previous generation.
Examples: Naruto being able to Master Sage mode; Jiraya Couldn't,
Naruto Created and Mastered Fusing his elemental Chakra into the Resengan, Kakashi couldn't, Sasuke evolving the Chidori, Kakashi learned the Chidori and improved it to Lightning Blade, Kabuto Perfected Edo and reaching Sage Mode, Oro couldn't and didn't.

So my point is Hiruzen would in fact be stronger than Hashirama.

I do have one question though... If Hiruzen knew all the Jutsu from his village, wouldn't he know how to use Wood release, Chidori, Resengan, and FTG?

 

[sage of the 69 paths]

what is KG

 

[Thewargoeson]

Hiruzen was holding his own in the Battle with Edo Hashirama,

"Hiruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history. In fact, he was so powerful that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had. "

Hiruzen was a student under the Second Hokage which he also trained with the First Hokage, also knowing all the Jutsu's in Kohana then I would have to say Hiruzen would be more fit. Also if you pay close attention the next generation has always became stronger then the previous generation.
Examples: Naruto being able to Master Sage mode; Jiraya Couldn't,
Naruto Created and Mastered Fusing his elemental Chakra into the Resengan, Kakashi couldn't, Sasuke evolving the Chidori, Kakashi learned the Chidori and improved it to Lightning Blade, Kabuto Perfected Edo and reaching Sage Mode, Oro couldn't and didn't.

So my point is Hiruzen would in fact be stronger than Hashirama.

I do have one question though... If Hiruzen knew all the Jutsu from his village, wouldn't he know how to use Wood release, Chidori, Resengan, and FTG?

He cudnt use wood release bcuz its a KG.
And I believe he cud use the rest of those techniques u named

what is KG

KG= Kekkai genkai (blood line trait) such as sharingan, byakuugan, wood style etc

 

[sage of the 69 paths]

He cudnt use wood release bcuz its a KG.
And I believe he cud use the rest of those techniques u named


KG= Kekkai genkai (blood line trait) such as sharingan, byakuugan, wood style etc

thank you i know what kekkai genkai is but didn't understand it because it was in KG

 

[Thewargoeson]

thank you i know what kekkai genkai is but didn't understand it because it was in KG

Oh ok my bad!

 

[wyliejl]

He cudnt use wood release bcuz its a KG.
And I believe he cud use the rest of those techniques u named


KG= Kekkai genkai (blood line trait) such as sharingan, byakuugan, wood style etc

how wood syle is kg

 

[rubachac]

He was hailed as a shinobi god but only in his prime.. in that time there wasn't a shinobi as strong as him because hashirama was already dead..

 

[xeroblast]

ive been reading all your post and it was kinda funny on everything all of you assume.

the reason why hiruzen was called a "god of shinobi" is because he was the current hokage AT THAT TIME. and also at that time, the manga didnt even mentioned about the sage or hashirama being the god of shinobi also.

realisticaly explanation for this type of story is that the strongest being in the current story might not be the strongest in the next chapter. (unless the whole story is already written like harry potter that his final enemy will be voldemort).

examples:
DBZ - freeza says he is the strongest in the universe but if he says is right then the buu or kaio shouldnt exist. toriyama put them to supply or there is/should someone oppose the strength of the protagonist.
YYHakusho - as yusuke/eugene is getting stronger, his enemies also become stronger.
Bleach - ichigo's enemies are getting stronger and stronger everytime he successfully defeated his previous enemies.

and every manga/series there will always come a new and stronger enemy.

so to speak, the current strongest will not be the strongest in the upcoming chapter. maybe the new chapter is saying about a character who is so strong in the past but still, the character is only strong as its hype.

this is very common mistake for authors who were writing a series. that is why the fans can see plot holes in series that were written in on-the-go manner.

 

[johnny335704]

Hiruzen is no god in old age.
No clue about his powers in prime bur he was capable enough to be made 3rd hokage by 2nd hokage. So yes, he is very powerful but i don't think he was god of shinobi at any point of time in history.

 

[BlackGamabunta]

Ok as we all know there has been a HUGE debate on the base about who's better hiruzen or hashirama.
while re-reading the manga i found something tht i feel cud hopefully put an end to it.
One of the main arguments people have is that "Hiruzen was hailed as the god of shinobi"

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that page has been used alot, but it's a miss translation what orochimaru actually says is "its so pitifull that even you who has been hailed as a shinobi god, are vulnerable to the passage of time"
now i do know for a fact that this is the exact translation. so look at the bolded part in the translation. notice the a. this a is crucial to this argument. the a implies plural, which wud mean there have been other "gods of shinobi".
for example hashirama, madara, SO6P.
Now do not get me wrong hiruzen is incredibly powerful, definetly top ten (imo).
so the point of this thread is to say altho hiruzen is strong we cnt say he's stronger than anyone bcuz he was hailed as a god.

but while im on the subject of hiruzen i jst feel like trying to put an end to people underestimating him.
Ok as we all know hiruzen was nicknamed the professor bcuz he knew all existing konoha ninjutsu (besides KG techniques obviously).

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Now what i've seen is people completely overlooking this fact.
Do u all realize what know all existing konoha ninjutsu. (now ik we have no technical proof tht he knows them all but if he oro said he cud i dnt see why we shudnt believe him)
It means he can use; rasengan, chidori, FTG, edo tensei.
ya i said it, FTG and edo. For these reasons; FTG is not a KG it was invented by minato. and as we all know he invented it while hiruzen was alive. so if oro said he knew all konoha ninjutsu tht wud include FTG.
Same with edo, hiruzen didnt use it because he thot of it as a disgusting inhuman technique because u had to sacrifice someone.
and I think he didnt use FTG bcuz it didnt fit to his fighting style. he was a mid range fighter who takes things slow and analyzes things.
hahaha sry got off track xd. but my point is we cnt tell if hiruzen or hashirama is stronger bcuz they are both god like shinobi. and my second point is people shudnt underestimate hiruzen, he's a boss.

a used as an article means singular...

if you will use an article for plural noun, you will be using "The"

God of Shinobi + Shinobi God

God there is the noun and shinobi is the adjective that qualifies the noun...