Hiruzen (god debate)

[Owarij]

False both the senju & uchiha mastered all aspects of shinobi /battle making hashirama more than just moukton but good with weapons seals taijutsu genjutsu & ninjutsu
Hiruzen being his student just surpassed him that's all

hashirama was hiruzen with a kekgenkai similar to hanzo being madara without one
Hashirama & madara were hiruzen & hanzo of their era shinobi idolized for their skill & strength

Wronggg

Senjus were skilled in alll forms.. Never was it stated they were masters..

They trained the THREE forms of shinobi combat, nin gen tai..

uchiha? what? never was it stated uchiha were masters of everything...Not every uchiha were genjutsu users..

To master ninjutsu, you would have had to mastered all the elements.. Something so6p, hiruzen and nagato did..

Mastering genjutsu, i would guess be itachi/shishui, but without kkg you would need to master alot of them ,

You must be registered for see images

Like hiruzen

same with taijutsu..


Hashirama was skileld in ninjutsu.. and like kakashi may have mastered his elements.. w.e they were. water and earth?

he may have mastered them, but not ninjutsu on a whole..

 

[Viewtiful]

Actually, the OP is incorrect. Orochimaru specifically refers to Hiruzen as being hailed as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) , which the Sage of the Six Paths was also hailed as.

There are obvious exceptions to knowing all the techniques in Konoha at the time when he was called the God of Shinobi:

-Tobirama left Edo Tensei undeveloped and it was Orochimaru who perfected it. Not to mention, Tobirama was Hiruzen's second master and had deemed the technique a Kinjutsu. I don't know why you thought such a technique was included in that.

-KKGs are obviously exempt

-And the OP stupidly puts techniques that came out less than 10 years before the series' timeline such as Chidori, FTG and Rasengan, which were created long after Hiruzen was said to have known all techniques in Konoha.


Please be logical.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Why are people debating him being called God of Shinobi? He was labeled it and it has never been refuted, therefor it's 100% fact. You can debate how powerful he is or how he compares to others, but him mastering all forms of combat is non-debatable.

 

[TrueNarutoFan3000]

u kidding me?
took out 4th kazegage easily.
defeated hiruzen.
played with 4 tailed naruto like a toy.
oro is not weak

Agreed

 

[Son of God]

Hiruzen blows.

Shouldn't God of Shinobi mean he knows all summons, and jutsu?

Don't stop the definition of God to merely mastering types of combat. Gods are all powerful, capable of doing anything. So it would make sense he could perform every technique, as a God and all.

 

[Owarij]

Hiruzen blows.

Shouldn't God of Shinobi mean he knows all summons, and jutsu?

Don't stop the definition of God to merely mastering types of combat. Gods are all powerful, capable of doing anything. So it would make sense he could perform every technique, as a God and all.

he can perform summoning techniques..
that's that.. getting a contract with other animals depends on the person..
you don't even know if so6p had contracts with everything..

 

[Prince Charles]

IMO i think he wasn't stronger than hashirama. i think he was just hyped up for part 1.

kishi is known to contradict and overrate a character to a certain point.

i meen why would kishi say his the strongest hokage/kage if he doesnt even back it up?

why not show some eps with hiruzen in his prime fighting battles and stuff to show us he deserves to be > hashirama

until i see more of hiruzen and his arsenal and prime im sticking with hashirama being the strongest, kabuto saying stuff like his power was a fairy tail like the so6p and dan saying he was the only one who can beat edo madara, and im pretty sure dan was alive when hiruzen was still in his prime, so peple shouldnt take dans words lightly considering he may have seen a bit of prime hiruzen.

 

[huzaifa555]

Ok as we all know there has been a HUGE debate on the base about who's better hiruzen or hashirama.
while re-reading the manga i found something tht i feel cud hopefully put an end to it.
One of the main arguments people have is that "Hiruzen was hailed as the god of shinobi"

You must be registered for see links

that page has been used alot, but it's a miss translation what orochimaru actually says is "its so pitifull that even you who has been hailed as a shinobi god, are vulnerable to the passage of time"
now i do know for a fact that this is the exact translation. so look at the bolded part in the translation. notice the a. this a is crucial to this argument. the a implies plural, which wud mean there have been other "gods of shinobi".
for example hashirama, madara, SO6P.
Now do not get me wrong hiruzen is incredibly powerful, definetly top ten (imo).
so the point of this thread is to say altho hiruzen is strong we cnt say he's stronger than anyone bcuz he was hailed as a god.

but while im on the subject of hiruzen i jst feel like trying to put an end to people underestimating him.
Ok as we all know hiruzen was nicknamed the professor bcuz he knew all existing konoha ninjutsu (besides KG techniques obviously).

You must be registered for see links

Now what i've seen is people completely overlooking this fact.
Do u all realize what know all existing konoha ninjutsu. (now ik we have no technical proof tht he knows them all but if he oro said he cud i dnt see why we shudnt believe him)
It means he can use; rasengan, chidori, FTG, edo tensei.
ya i said it, FTG and edo. For these reasons; FTG is not a KG it was invented by minato. and as we all know he invented it while hiruzen was alive. so if oro said he knew all konoha ninjutsu tht wud include FTG.
Same with edo, hiruzen didnt use it because he thot of it as a disgusting inhuman technique because u had to sacrifice someone.
and I think he didnt use FTG bcuz it didnt fit to his fighting style. he was a mid range fighter who takes things slow and analyzes things.
hahaha sry got off track xd. but my point is we cnt tell if hiruzen or hashirama is stronger bcuz they are both god like shinobi. and my second point is people shudnt underestimate hiruzen, he's a boss.

At a time its said he could use all of Konohas jutsu we dont know which time dumb idiot.

 

[Son of God]

he can perform summoning techniques..
that's that.. getting a contract with other animals depends on the person..
you don't even know if so6p had contracts with everything..

I'm sorry but you tried defining what God of Shinobi meant. I did the same.

 

[ReapTermin]

I thought this thread was going to die. But it seems that people are still overrarting Hiruzen. They are in it for the Kumi or the Trolling.

But since Hiruzen > Hashirama... I think it's safe to say that Naruto > Sage of the Six Paths. Oh, and that
Tonton > Orochimaru.

 

[Viewtiful]

I thought this thread was going to die. But it seems that people are still overrarting Hiruzen. They are in it for the Kumi or the Trolling.

But since Hiruzen > Hashirama... I think it's safe to say that Naruto > Sage of the Six Paths. Oh, and that
Tonton > Orochimaru.

Except Hiruzen being greater than Hashirama was stated in the series and the databooks, while the nonsense you posted wasn't.

Page 117: "He is such a genius ninja that he was even called the 'Professor', and he still garners everyone's respect as the strongest Hokage in history." (「„プロフェッサー”と呼ばれたほどの天才忍者であり、歴代最強の火影として皆の尊敬を集め続ける。」, "'Purofessā' to yobareta hodo no tensai ninja de ari, rekidai saikyō no Hokage toshite mina no sonkei o atsume tsuzukeru")

Page 119: "'Strongest in history', 'genius', et cetera, the words used to describe the Third Hokage are filled with respect." (「„歴代最強”„天才”など、三代目火影を形容する言葉は賞賛に満ちている。」, "'Rekidai saikyō' 'tensai' nado, Sandaime Hokage o keiyōsuru kotoba wa shōsan ni michite iru.")

Page 265: "The Third is called the strongest, even among the past Hokage, and he is even admired as the 'God of Shinobi'." (「三代目は歴代火影の中でも最強と言われ、„忍の神”と謳われたことも。」, "Sandaime wa rekidai Hokage no naka demo saikyō to iware, 'Shinobi no Kami' to utawareta koto mo")

Heck Nagato said that his power paled in comparison to what the Sage could do.

 

[besteawuz]

wasted thread, hiruzen isnt even in top 15

 

[Son of God]

Except Hiruzen being greater than Hashirama was stated in the series and the databooks, while the nonsense you posted wasn't.



Heck Nagato said that his power paled in comparison to what the Sage could do.

The databook points you posted mean nothing. Just reiterations of character statements.

 

[ReapTermin]

Except Hiruzen being greater than Hashirama was stated in the series and the databooks, while the nonsense you posted wasn't.

Show me the pages. I need proof of what you said.

 

[Vexorian]

Don't get me wrong, Hiruzen was strong, but I just don't think he's a god Shinobi like Hashirama.

I suppose it depends on what he's fighting. If he's fighting a Jinchuuriki, Hiruzen fails compared to Hashirama. But if he's fighting lets say any non-jinchuuriki opponent he is as great if not better than Hashirama.

 

[wyliejl]

Ok as we all know there has been a HUGE debate on the base about who's better hiruzen or hashirama.
while re-reading the manga i found something tht i feel cud hopefully put an end to it.
One of the main arguments people have is that "Hiruzen was hailed as the god of shinobi"

You must be registered for see links

that page has been used alot, but it's a miss translation what orochimaru actually says is "its so pitifull that even you who has been hailed as a shinobi god, are vulnerable to the passage of time"
now i do know for a fact that this is the exact translation. so look at the bolded part in the translation. notice the a. this a is crucial to this argument. the a implies plural, which wud mean there have been other "gods of shinobi".
for example hashirama, madara, SO6P.
Now do not get me wrong hiruzen is incredibly powerful, definetly top ten (imo).
so the point of this thread is to say altho hiruzen is strong we cnt say he's stronger than anyone bcuz he was hailed as a god.

but while im on the subject of hiruzen i jst feel like trying to put an end to people underestimating him.
Ok as we all know hiruzen was nicknamed the professor bcuz he knew all existing konoha ninjutsu (besides KG techniques obviously).

You must be registered for see links

Now what i've seen is people completely overlooking this fact.
Do u all realize what know all existing konoha ninjutsu. (now ik we have no technical proof tht he knows them all but if he oro said he cud i dnt see why we shudnt believe him)
It means he can use; rasengan, chidori, FTG, edo tensei.
ya i said it, FTG and edo. For these reasons; FTG is not a KG it was invented by minato. and as we all know he invented it while hiruzen was alive. so if oro said he knew all konoha ninjutsu tht wud include FTG.
Same with edo, hiruzen didnt use it because he thot of it as a disgusting inhuman technique because u had to sacrifice someone.
and I think he didnt use FTG bcuz it didnt fit to his fighting style. he was a mid range fighter who takes things slow and analyzes things.
hahaha sry got off track xd. but my point is we cnt tell if hiruzen or hashirama is stronger bcuz they are both god like shinobi. and my second point is people shudnt underestimate hiruzen, he's a boss.

Haha he's the most over hype character ever!!!!!!!

 

[Exaar]

IMO i think he wasn't stronger than hashirama. i think he was just hyped up for part 1.

kishi is known to contradict and overrate a character to a certain point.

i meen why would kishi say his the strongest hokage/kage if he doesnt even back it up?

why not show some eps with hiruzen in his prime fighting battles and stuff to show us he deserves to be > hashirama

until i see more of hiruzen and his arsenal and prime im sticking with hashirama being the strongest, kabuto saying stuff like his power was a fairy tail like the so6p and dan saying he was the only one who can beat edo madara, and im pretty sure dan was alive when hiruzen was still in his prime, so peple shouldnt take dans words lightly considering he may have seen a bit of prime hiruzen.

Because Kishi doesn't Need to back it up, It's his Manga, If he Say's Hirzen is the strongest, Then he's the Strongest, Simple as that.

Untill it's the Manga Say's "Hashirama was the Strongest Hokage" Then Hiruzen Keeps his Title
Nothing But mere Guesses that Kish has "changed his mind".

As i've said befor, Dan's Statement is Complete BullShit, It's Unknown if Dan even Knows of Current Madara (RInnegan/Wood) He might only think it's EMS Madara.
Even if he Did know of Current Madara, hashirama Isn't Beating him at all, Not even close.

Also Dan has been Dead Along time, He Deosn't know What Hiruzen could of Gained During the time after his Death, Nor Does he know About Current Living Ninja's Strength's like Itachi/Naruto/Sasuke/Current Kage's/akatsuki Members and so on.

 

[Son of God]

Because Kishi doesn't Need to back it up, It's his Manga, If he Say's Hirzen is the strongest, Then he's the Strongest, Simple as that.

Untill it's the Manga Say's "Hashirama was the Strongest Hokage" Then Hiruzen Keeps his Title
Nothing But mere Guesses that Kish has "changed his mind".

As i've said befor, Dan's Statement is Complete BullShit, It's Unknown if Dan even Knows of Current Madara (RInnegan/Wood) He might only think it's EMS Madara.
Even if he Did know of Current Madara, hashirama Isn't Beating him at all, Not even close.

Also Dan has been Dead Along time, He Deosn't know What Hiruzen could of Gained During the time after his Death, Nor Does he know About Current Living Ninja's Strength's like Itachi/Naruto/Sasuke/Current Kage's/akatsuki Members and so on.

Lol - *puts faith in manga statements

*Rejects manga statements

 

[midobeast123]

A = Plural

there were TWO god of shinobi's in this manga

hiruzen and so6p.. that's why plural was used..

as for your existing..
ORO used past tense... existing means operating at a current time..

Hiruzen no longer knew all the existing justu of the leaf.. But at ONE TIME in the past.. he knew them all and was given the title professor by konoha villagers

it didnt say a god of shinobi it as the god of shinobi

 

[Owarij]

Lol - *puts faith in manga statements

*Rejects manga statements

Dans statement only says that the only person HE KNOWS that can beat Madara is hashirama


I've brought this up time and time again as why that statement says nothing.... Hashirama and Madara fought each other what? hundreds of times on the battlfield? They know each other like the back of their hands.. they know how the other fights, they have counters for each other's jutsu, ETC

Hypothetically let's say
Gai > Kisame..(Gai can beat kisame)
Kisame > Kakashi ( Kisame can beat Kakashi)

DOES that mean Gai is stronger than Kakashi? NO, this isn't dbz..
fights in naruto revolves around many aspects..
like in that fight gai was a taijutsu user..

Knowledge of the opponents justu is a huge factor .... He not only has knowledge but counters and experience fighting him.. something NO other ninja alive would have.. or dead...

Just because hashirama and Madara are direct counters for each other, and Hashirama can beat Madara, doesn't mean that Noone else can defeat Madara...

And also , dan's statement about "ONLY" would be for the people he's known... he died at what 26 or 27? he doesn't know kabuto, or nagato etc..
he doesn't know these people who would rape madara..