Hirudora Destroyed V3 Susano'o

[Touken]

I'm hoping I could sway the Base considering most people believe Gai only pushed back Madara's Susanoo, and not destroy it.

Anyway, I'll get right to it.

Even though we never see Hirudora actually destroying Susanoo on-panel (which is the main argument), there's still strong evidence supporting Gai destroying V3 Susanoo with Hirudora. We first see Madara explicitly stating he wanted to kill/capture the Hachibi and the Kyuubi before the Juubi's revival [

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][

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], so it doesn't make sense for him to suddenly deactivate Susanoo when it's clear his intention was to capture them.

Leading on from that point, we don't see Madara's Susanoo after Gai uses Hirudora. The next time we do see Madara he doesn't have Susanoo activated [

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], so bearing in mind my previous point, the only logical conclusion is that he just finished regenerating after taking on Hirudora. Furthermore, after Hirudora explodes, the Mokuton Madara was using [

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] stops restraining Bee and Gai [

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]. The only logical conclusion being is that Hirudora destroyed both Madara and his Susanoo, so he was no longer able to maintain his Mokuton. Madara was no longer applying pressure on Bee because he was regenerating and that gave Bee the time to create a massive Bijuudama with help from Naruto [

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].

Last point, a lot of people argue that it couldn't possibly have destroyed V3 Susanoo because Kisame tanked it but you gotta remember that it wasn't Gai's aim to kill Kisame [

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]. Moreover, Hirudora was executed underwater, and you can clearly see the explosion was muted underwater [

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]; you don't see anything remotely close to tidal waves, which should be present bearing in mind Hirudora's massive explosion and the shock wave the technique produces [

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][

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]. Also, I'm pretty sure the strength of Hirudora can be altered keeping in mind that it's only a fast punch [

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] so I assume that the faster the punch, the stronger Hirudora becomes. On top of that, explosions work differently while underwater. See the posts below regarding underwater explosions.

Quick note - Madara only used V3 Susanoo because he wanted to capture them, not kill. I've seen peeps argue that he was only waiting for the Juubi's revival because if he was going serious, he'd have used PS. If he did use PS, he would have killed everyone there and would have had to wait for Gyuki and Kurama to revive [

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]. Plus, he probably would have ended up killing Obito too.

If there's anyone who has some solid points as to why Hirudora didn't destroy Susanoo, bring them forth pls. Anyway, I'm hoping you guys enjoy the read.

 

[Smd]

pretty sure kisame tanked it at full force. either way he still tanked it

 

[Made in Heaven]

Nice post. Ummm... Yeah, I got nothin else to say

 

[Touken]

pretty sure kisame tanked it at full force. either way he still tanked it

Oh, you read my entire post in 2 minutes?

 

[shelke]

I do not agree. Kisame survived it. There is nothing to back this up. Perhaps Eighth Gate's Evening Elephant might change it. I doubt it though.

 

[Anorien16]

pretty sure kisame tanked it at full force. either way he still tanked it

And I am pretty sure that the Hidura exploded when it clashed with the Shark Bullet (Roar Youth) ....

 

[Touken]

I do not agree. Kisame survived it. There is nothing to back this up. Perhaps Eighth Gate's Evening Elephant might change it. I doubt it though.

Except my 3rd paragraph.

 

[A$AP Wap]

And I am pretty sure that the Hidura exploded when it clashed with the Shark Bullet (Roar Youth) ....

It probably only exploded because Kisame was using water, and his attack wasn't Solid.
Guy's attack was brute force attacking water, of course it would explode.
Hirudora vs. a Solid Object like Susano'o is another Story.

 

[Aya San]

How do you know Gai's aim wasn't to kill him? His first objective was to kill Kisame to stop him from sending the intel away wasn't it? It's just that Kisame survived so they took advantage.

 

[Untamed]

Maybe this panel of the 'CIRCLE' that Obito talks about will convince people that his main & only reason for doing everything is not sole because of Rin. She's a huge part of it and part of the beginning aside from the story of Sakumo Hatake the White Fang, but it is the Cycle of never-ending friends letting down & killing friends over and over that is the 'TRASH' he hopes to stop. Mainly he wants to end 'ALL' violence & wars.

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Kishi just doesn't give him the right dialogue at the right time to say it.

ot: Maybe then, Kisame's durability could be compared to Madara's Susano'o in some way?
nvm.. I guess what is being stated is that the currents of the underwater were thick & opposing the traveling and path of Gai's Hirudora and that moving through the air is a lot easier than moving underwater.. in other words, moving more freely on land/air than in the water affects and slows down (possibly) attacks especially taijutsu .

Last point, a lot of people argue that it couldn't possibly have destroyed V3 Susanoo because Kisame tanked it but you gotta remember that it wasn't Gai's aim to kill Kisame [X]. Moreover, Hirudora was executed underwater, and you can clearly see the explosion was muted underwater [X]; you don't see anything remotely close to tidal waves, which should be present bearing in mind Hirudora's massive explosion and the shock wave the technique produces [X][X]. Also, I'm pretty sure the strength of Hirudora can be altered keeping in mind that it's only a fast punch [X] so I assume that the faster the punch, the stronger Hirudora becomes.

 

[paratise]

Makes sense, nice analysis.

About Killing Kisame or not, human are different from materaials.
A bullet can shot someone through stomach, but it may not kill people. Same bullet can get through steel thus damages it; just because a human being can survive it doesn't mean a human is more durable than steel.

Plus, who guarantees Kisame would survive after he got hit? It's not like he would walk out of it, people have a suffereing process before they die. It can be a killer move but not in an instant, Kisame did not die another killing move (V2 lariat) right of the bat either.

 

[Touken]

How do you know Gai's aim wasn't to kill him? His first objective was to kill Kisame to stop him from sending the intel away wasn't it? It's just that Kisame survived so they took advantage.

Because he would have ended him while Kisame was lying on the lake.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Check out my thread:

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It explains how you don't need evidence of breaking Susanoo, but evidence showing concussive damage can stripe it off.

I dont think Hirudora destroy Sussanoo. I think it provided enough concussive damage to strip it off.

 

[Prince Charles]

Yeah no kisame's durability isnt as great as sussano when Bee's lariat broke through his ribcage, sussano would definitely had tanked a lariat.

OT: As I recall itachi's sussano which wasnt in its final form probably v2 at the time took a full power kirin on the spot, and I doubt the yata mirror was used, if itachi's sussano not in it's final form can take kirin I don't see hirudora doing much against's madara. But who knows?

 

[shelke]

Except my 3rd paragraph.

I have read your thread. I didn't over-look anything.

First of all, there is no such thing as adjusting the power of Gate attacks:

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The technique is called 'Gates' because it removes the restraints on the Gates that control/restrain the amount of Chakra that is released within the body. It would release all the power contained within those gates, thus allowing for the Gate techniques, associated by opening the said Chakra Gate and creating the power. As there is Nothing to contain the power, how are you even suggesting that he can control the power of any Gate-based attack? It goes completely against the working of the Gates and thus, against what the manga has established. As the user cannot even control the self-destruction of the body, despite opening the Heal Chakra Gate. All of this is vastly speculatory.

As for the water, then they were not several meters below water, just slightly below the surface - About 12 feet I am assuming. Not that it matters as 7th Gate Pushes Water back anyway:

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Gai doesn't have any explosion based techniques. It's simply a high-speed Punch that creates a vaccum and the rushing pressue waves collide, producing a shockwave as Kisame mentions that the hand speed is super sonic, and that is what happens in super sonic movement - the shockwaves are produced via the colliding pressure / Sound waves.

Because of all this, I just do not agree at all. V3 is vastly and I mean vastly superior to Kisame's physical durability. Gates do not allow for power adjustment. It isn't canon.

 

[KidGamer65]

Even though it doesn't make sense to me how Kisame would survive Hirudora but it'd break Susanoo, I can't keep denying the fact that his Mokuton's grip loosened after getting hit...I still don't understand what you mean by the explosion was muted underwater. I'm pretty sure it occurred under water as:

-Kisame was injured, and he was underwater.

-They were underwater yet they are shown above water after that, meaning the water must have been blown away by the explosion.

By the way, that's V2, not V3.

Makes sense, nice analysis.

About Killing Kisame or not, human are different from materaials.
A bullet can shot someone through stomach, but it may not kill people. Same bullet can get through steel thus damages it; just because a human being can survive it doesn't mean a human is more durable than steel.

Plus, who guarantees Kisame would survive after he got hit? It's not like he would walk out of it, people have a suffereing process before they die. It can be a killer move but not in an instant, Kisame did not die another killing move (V2 lariat) right of the bat either.

I think I'm going to agree with this right here.

 

[Bieber]

I agree, nice job.

 

[Touken]

Even though it doesn't make sense to me how Kisame would survive Hirudora but it'd break Susanoo, I can't keep denying the fact that his Mokuton's grip loosened after getting hit...I still don't understand what you mean by the explosion was muted underwater. I'm pretty sure it occurred under water as:

-Kisame was injured, and he was underwater.

-They were underwater yet they are shown above water after that, meaning the water must have been blown away by the explosion.

By the way, that's V2, not V3.

Ah, I guess I didn't make myself clear enough.

Explosions underwater deal more damage internally (in a human), so it's different to explosions that occur in air. Damage done underwater is mainly due to being hit by extremely high pressures, which deal massive damage to organs. Explosions in air usually dismember humans, the same doesn't happen underwater, which is why Kisame doesn't seem that harmed but he should have suffered internal damage (this is all assuming my physics knowledge is right). I think caterpillar's explanation puts it best.

What's V3 again?

^Thanks dude/dudettes.

 

[Smd]

i read the your post op.

but i disagree susanno has tankked much more damage.

plus this is assuming gai gets a clean hit

 

[Penguin]

I really don't know a lot about Gai and Afternoon Tiger, but doesn't he say it is a really fast punch? If so, anyone with a brain can deduce that punching in water is slower than punching outside of water, as it is that way in real life.

How is this fact so over looked?