Hiashi hyuga VS Kage summit Sasuke

[Legendary Toad Sage]

Sasuke isn't being pushed back past mid difficulty here, and that's being generous.

 

[Apêx1]

We've been over your misuse of the burden of proof fallacy. If you want to assert something as true, then you have a burden of proof to support your assertion with an argument whether it be Sasuke can blitz that gennin or sasuke can't blitz that gennin. You're not fulfilling that burden of proof, you're saying that because i can't show that Sasuke can't blitz the gennin via speed feats, then sasuke blitzes that gennin which is the equivalent of saying "prove me wrong, else I'm right". If we don't have speed feats to compare, then we can't compare the characters via speed feats, else you could do the reverse of what you're saying and say that before kaguya had any speed feats, chapter 1 naruto blitzes her because he has speed feats.

Ironic, very ironic. This is burden of proof at bold, and is exactly what you are doing. It's this simple really, I have feats that Sasuke has blitzed ninja's in the past, I have no feats of Hiashi's reaction speeds, so at this point, I have no reason to believe that Hiashi can react. However, you are telling me that I need proof of Sasuke being able to blitz Hiashi, but I cannot give you proof of such, since Hiashi has no speed feats in the first place. Thus the burden of proof remains on you, because Sasuke has blitzed ninja's, and there's no evidence to suggest Hiashi is excluded from the potential people that can be blitzed. No no no, that's a false analogy at underlined.

So if we can't compare the characters via speed feats, we compare them via hype or general level since a comparison that's not as accurate is still far better than one that's outright fallacious. We know that Kaguya is in god tier and Naruto is genin tier, so we can logically assert she isn't being blitzed. Hiashi, on the other hand, is beneath Deidara's tier (for all I know, his lack of feats support my stand), thus Sasuke blitzes Hiashi as well. Two completely different scenarios. What you are basically doing right now, is telling me that Fugaku can react to Itachi's shunshin blitz, and no one can say otherwise despite Itachi having blitzed people who can be claimed to be faster, and by feats, are most definitely faster. Flawed logic man.

Sasuke's speed isn't comparable to Ei's speed just like SM Naruto's speed isn't comparable to sandaime raikage's speed. Both are able to blitz their opponents because of their super reactions as shown when sasuke fought naruto at VoTe
Anything that gives you a greater perception of the external world will boost your reactions, why do you think sensors have boosted reactions, why do you think pain's share vision gave him boosted reactions?

Nevertheless he had more than enough speed feats to put him far above Hiashi, and I have no intention of getting into a debate that is unecessary, all I need is him blitzing Deidara and Tobi informing Deidara of Sasuke's location behind him. I don't need v1 Ay or even Deidara speed feats to support my argument. No, that's not how it works. Having a dojutsu doesnt equate to having greater reaction speed. Byakugan in no way boosts reaction speed, unless chakra is being used. In the case Sasuke uses Shunshin, it would, since he can expect it, but that by no means implies he will react to it. As Lee said, perception doesn't equate to reaction. And not all sensors have boosted reactions, at this point only perfect SM users do, unless the conventional sensor is perceiving an incoming jutsu. And Pain's vision gives boosted reactions? No it doesn't, this was never implied, it simply gives you the ability to react from something in all directions without having to physically look at said place, and then evade, but rather 'just evade'. Technically speaking, it doesn't boost reactions to a normal linear blitz.

Deidara never engaged gaara's sand while on the ground, it was all in flight, and he actually wasn't faster than the sand considering he had to blow himself up to escape and lost an arm.

He was faster than the Sand arm, and that is a manga fact. The only thing he couldn't out-speed was the Sand closing on him, and that in no way suggests superior speed, since the sand would have to close a much smaller distance than Deidara would have to cover in order to escape.

Deidara never said he couldn't use C1 bird because of that? His resorting to C2 was due to the fact that he had to take Sasuke on from a distance since Sasuke was too fast. C1 bird doesn't release explosives while C2 Dragon releases tons of explosives. All his intent throughout was to fly out of Sasuke's range

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and still attack him with large scale explosion through the Dragon..something C1 bird lacks

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considering Deidara has to create explosive via his hands each time he's on C1.

What, pretty sure this is enough to justify my point [

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]. He said he's too fast, and thus used C2, since C2 doesn't require him to out-speed his opponent like he would normally do with C1. He completely negated any attempted blitz by keeping his distance, and even found out Sasuke's Chidori spear's range to emphasise this point. I believe that is what you were saying, but that directly corroborates with my point, which would be C1 not being beneficial in a fight of speed. C1 was used against Deidara and releases more than enough explosions (Deidara himself being the source). If it was faster than Sasuke than he could simply drop bombs while brushing past him, since he's faster, but that wasn't the case.

If not, then I don't know why he'll create a C1 bird to take flight afterwards when he could have just created C2 again if the bird was slower or so

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.

Not to mention, you make it seems like Sasuke would instantly blitz Hiashi because Deidara said he was too fast. Understandable but not really the case since Deidara managed to react at least from close range

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.Why won't Hiashi be able to release chakra from his body before this?

Don't see how he could create c2 again while in mid-air, not to mention that you have to take into consideration his lack of preparation when coming into fights, something Sasori claimed to be his weak point. I do believe that there's a part of that "C1 instead of C2" that I am not understanding, so do elaborate.

And that's a common misconception. Sasuke didn't actually go for Deidara, he went for Tobi, who was behind Deidara. When he blitzed again, Deidara only could perceive Sasuke due to Tobi telling him he was behind him [

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], and that's only due to Sharingan's pre-cognitive nature. I personally don't see how he could mindly react to a shunshin blitz, but that's just me. Not to mention Sasuke's blitz on Deidara was a jump, not even a shunshin. His striking speed also is something I have no reason to believe Hiashi can deal with, he struck several times after blitzing from this distance [

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], where the blood seemed to be on the same level of exertion on each cut [

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]. He dodges a massive explosion with ease [

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] which impresses Deidara heavily, and blitzed Naruto here [

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]. I see no reason as to why Hiashi can bodily react to a blitz, and if, say, he was; he'd still lose to Sasuke's massively superior striking speed and range.

 

[super yang]

while intuitively ignoring genjutsu ITT, hiashi has an outside chance w/ the intel...tho' sasuke would have hyuuga intel too, so...

sasuke eventually wins by crushing him w/ susanoo, w/ is actually a compliment to hiashi

 

[Haizaki]

What, pretty sure this is enough to justify my point [

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]. He said he's too fast, and thus used C2, since C2 doesn't require him to out-speed his opponent like he would normally do with C1. He completely negated any attempted blitz by keeping his distance, and even found out Sasuke's Chidori spear's range to emphasise this point. I believe that is what you were saying, but that directly corroborates with my point, which would be C1 not being beneficial in a fight of speed. C1 was used against Deidara and releases more than enough explosions (Deidara himself being the source). If it was faster than Sasuke than he could simply drop bombs while brushing past him, since he's faster, but that wasn't the case.

That scan doesn't prove your point.

- Him saying Sasuke was too fast and saying C2 was the next option was because Sasuke was evading his C1 attacks. That's why he resorted to C2 and even emphasized on his movements being too fast while he was evading the C2 bombs as well

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- C2 Dragon wasn't created in order to avoid Sasuke's blitz because the C1 bird couldn't(even though the bird was never used before this point). It was created because it could use massive explosions from a range and could still guide it unlike the C1 bird.

- Sasuke here noted that the attack from C2 was different from the C1 bombs

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and Deidara wasn't even moving while on top the Dragon

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. I don't see why speed would be the case here when it was more of a change in attack.

- Sasuke eventually said it was guided

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something that can't be done with C1 as Sasuke noted the difference in attack. Not to mention we have the Mines from below which gives Deidara the advantage from both above and below. Something that can't be done with C1.

- Never was C2 dragon noted to be faster than the C1 bird. I've given you an explanation on why he resorted to it. If not, I don't see why C1 bird would be used later on in the fight if C2 Dragon was indeed faster and needed to help up his speed against Sasuke.

All Deidara wanted to do all through was attack from above and increase his range while still being able to guide his attacks as well as use the mines from below. Something that can never be done with C1 birds. There's nothing that really indicates his flying above with the Dragon was due to the fact that it was faster when we saw the big change in the attack. Which was mainly due to the fact that he could guide his attacks towards Sasuke with C2.

Don't see how he could create c2 again while in mid-air, not to mention that you have to take into consideration his lack of preparation when coming into fights, something Sasori claimed to be his weak point. I do believe that there's a part of that "C1 instead of C2" that I am not understanding, so do elaborate.

I've explained it to already. C2 dragon being used was due to the fact that he wanted to attack Sasuke with massive explosions from a range...something the C1 bird isn't capable of doing.

Not to sure about Deidara being faster than Gaara's sand when Onoki was at least equal

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and even caught up

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. Didn't Gaara's sand even catch him? Didn't he lose an arm. Wasn't it even said that Gaara's sand is faster than Onoki could fly? Can't find the scan though.

And that's a common misconception. Sasuke didn't actually go for Deidara, he went for Tobi, who was behind Deidara. When he blitzed again, Deidara only could perceive Sasuke due to Tobi telling him he was behind him [

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], and that's only due to Sharingan's pre-cognitive nature

Lol no it's not a misconception.

Deidara is in front of Tobi

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, we see Sasuke running towards Deidara

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and then we see here that Deidara jumps up before Sasuke gets close to them and the SFX shows that a jump was made before the cutting took place

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and even in that same scan you can see in the second panel that Deidara is shown to have already jumped away as his legs are slightly shown. Sasuke's sword is long enough as well, how would he have cut Tobi without hitting Deidara if he couldn't react? when Deidara was in front of Tobi and even blocking some parts of his body as well?

Lastly, why would Sasuke go for Tobi who's behind Deidara when Deidara was spouting all the garbage?


As for the precognition part, sure that's true but don't forget what happened before then, Tobi prevented him from detonating the bombs

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which distracted him

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. Though it's true eventually in the fight, he'd have been blitzed.

I personally don't see how he could mindly react to a shunshin blitz, but that's just me. Not to mention Sasuke's blitz on Deidara was a jump, not even a shunshin. His striking speed also is something I have no reason to believe Hiashi can deal with, he struck several times after blitzing from this distance [

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], where the blood seemed to be on the same level of exertion on each cut [

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]. He dodges a massive explosion with ease [

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] which impresses Deidara heavily, and blitzed Naruto here [

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]. I see no reason as to why Hiashi can bodily react to a blitz, and if, say, he was; he'd still lose to Sasuke's massively superior striking speed and range.

I see your point but I think you're really overlooking Hiashi. Naturally Hiashi is a master in Taijutsu but due not majorly being in a 1v1, people think he'd be blitzed by any opponent with ease. I mean, this guy has a 5 in Taijutsu which is basically CQC. Not to mention, all he has to do is release chakra from his body which would block the sword attack and then he can rotate to send Sasuke flying.

A young Neji showed amazing reaction feats

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and you can see in the next page he could release chakra to block first even though he's slower than Hiashi..He could omit chakra right after rotating even though it was pretty fast

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..Not that those feats are rather impressive when compared to Sasuke's movements but still Hiashi who's much faster than him should be able to release chakra before anything.