Hebi Sasuke vs SM Jiraiya

[Apêx1]

It senses chakra. If the chakra is disturbed there's no reason why he wouldn't sense that the chakra is disturbed. Either way, their chakras are connected which is how they feed him Nature Energy in the first place, so there's no way he won't know if their chakra has been disturbed, and if it becomes a race between SM Jiraiya clapping his hands and the two elder toads jumping off his body, it should be pretty clear who's going to win.

The chakra is disturbed? Wot? It's disturbed as in the chakra flow is different, it's not like it's inexistent or something. He'd need to sense chakra flow for that, but I'll take your point that him not getting NE would be a good indicator of something being wrong. Perhaps you'd like to address the rest of my argument though? Sasuke CONTROLS Ma or Pa. So even if Jiraiya realises they're in Genjutsu/something's wrong, he won't Kai them out before Ma or Pa knock him out with a single punch/putting their tongue through his head the same instant Sasuke takes control of them. Jiraiya would NOT react in time since he wouldn't even expect it. Sasuke won't put them into Genjutsu so that they're paralysed, he's putting them into Genjutsu to control them like he controls Aoda/Obito controls Sanbi's Jinchuriki, etc. If you don't address this then I'll assume you concede.

This is Taka Sasuke w/ CM2. Not Hebi Sasuke w/ MS. If he uses Chidori Eiso Jiraiya plows right through it with COR. Same goes for any Enton Projectile he decides to fire. It lacks the power to overpower Rasengan and it lacks the AoE to get around the Rasengan if Jiraiya holds it in front of him when he's charging at Sasuke.

Chidori Eiso even after expanding like that isn't going to maneuver around the Rasengan and hit Jiraiya nor is he going to pierce through it and hit Jiraiya.

I got mixed up lmao. I didn't say he's using Cidori Eiso at the COR. He can put it to the side of the COR and then ave it expand once it's passed the COR and thus near Jiraiya. He'd be pretty brutally injured. True, but it depends how you're arguing Jiraiya uses COR. Is he jumping or doing it from the ground. From a ground position Sasuke would just need to Enton the floor to prevent further approach. If he jumps then Chidori Eiso is guaranteed to hit him via the method I just mentioned. And anyways, Sasuke possesses scrolls for his weapons, and we've seen one for paper bombs during the fight vs Yata Mirror. If Jiraiya uses COR then he'd make himself a very vulnerable target to a massive Explosive Tag barrage like these

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.

Whether Sasuke can get out of the smoke cloud is irrelevant as the smoke cloud is to hide Jiraiya himself, and camp? Not necessary. Once the cloud is up, Jiraiya either charges Sasuke with COR, attacks with Goemon, or has Ma and Pa use Frog Call to make sure he doesn't run anywhere allowing Jiraiya to end it by slamming COR right into his Susanoo. So unless Sasuke can prep Kirin before Jiraiya can act, he dies.

Forgot that clones wouldn't be a counter.

Actually that's a common misconception. Nothing at all suggests they could not see within the dust cloud, take a look for yourself

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. They even dodged Bunta's attack and only said "where are they" because it was impossible to see him being inside of Bunta's mouth. Anyways, do you know HOW dust cloud works? Shima breathes Futon at the GROUND and that in turn pushes all the dust up from the ground. Thus the dust is chakra-less, yet far less dense than the ground in which the Sharingan can see chakra beneath. Here's the DBIV;
"Senpou - Futon Suna Hokori

Ma's Fuuton. By breathing on the ground's surface sand/dust is kicked up and envelops the area, sending out a smoke screen. The effects range is huge"
This effectively concludes that the Sharingan would see Jiraiya within it and STILL one shot him with Amaterasu. So no need to escape.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

stuff

stuff

Isn't gengutsu restricted? so no frog call and no solo glance possible anyways.

 

[KidGamer65]

The chakra is disturbed? Wot? It's disturbed as in the chakra flow is different, it's not like it's inexistent or something. He'd need to sense chakra flow for that, but I'll take your point that him not getting NE would be a good indicator of something being wrong. Perhaps you'd like to address the rest of my argument though? Sasuke CONTROLS Ma or Pa. So even if Jiraiya realises they're in Genjutsu/something's wrong, he won't Kai them out before Ma or Pa knock him out with a single punch/putting their tongue through his head the same instant Sasuke takes control of them. Jiraiya would NOT react in time since he wouldn't even expect it. Sasuke won't put them into Genjutsu so that they're paralysed, he's putting them into Genjutsu to control them like he controls Aoda/Obito controls Sanbi's Jinchuriki, etc. If you don't address this then I'll assume you concede.

Lol Dude. Like I just said Jiraiya and the Elder Toads are fused together, thus if their chakra is disturbed Jiraiya will feel that it's disturbed in the same way that the Bijuu feel that their Jinchuuriki's chakra is disturbed, and don't try to argue it's different, because it's not. Fukasaku's attempted fusion with Naruto and Kurama rejection clear that up. Second of all, if a Bijuu can feel that his Jinchuuriki's chakra is disturbed there's no reason a sensor type shinobi would be unable to do the same. So Jiraiya will know they are under Genjutsu from the start, so then it all comes down to who can act first, and I'll go with the faster ones, not the slower ones. Whether he uses Kai or uses his hair to inflict Pain. Lmfao. If you read before you replied you would've realized that I addressed your entire argument in my last post.

I got mixed up lmao. I didn't say he's using Cidori Eiso at the COR. He can put it to the side of the COR and then ave it expand once it's passed the COR and thus near Jiraiya. He'd be pretty brutally injured. True, but it depends how you're arguing Jiraiya uses COR. Is he jumping or doing it from the ground. From a ground position Sasuke would just need to Enton the floor to prevent further approach. If he jumps then Chidori Eiso is guaranteed to hit him via the method I just mentioned. And anyways, Sasuke possesses scrolls for his weapons, and we've seen one for paper bombs during the fight vs Yata Mirror. If Jiraiya uses COR then he'd make himself a very vulnerable target to a massive Explosive Tag barrage like these

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.

Then he'll have to paralyze Sasuke with Frog Call before he decides to charge in with COR.

Actually that's a common misconception. Nothing at all suggests they could not see within the dust cloud, take a look for yourself

You must be registered for see links

. They even dodged Bunta's attack and only said "where are they" because it was impossible to see him being inside of Bunta's mouth. Anyways, do you know HOW dust cloud works? Shima breathes Futon at the GROUND and that in turn pushes all the dust up from the ground. Thus the dust is chakra-less, yet far less dense than the ground in which the Sharingan can see chakra beneath. Here's the DBIV;
"Senpou - Futon Suna Hokori

Ma's Fuuton. By breathing on the ground's surface sand/dust is kicked up and envelops the area, sending out a smoke screen. The effects range is huge"
This effectively concludes that the Sharingan would see Jiraiya within it and STILL one shot him with Amaterasu. So no need to escape.

Yes, I already know how Dust Cloud works. Second of all if Dust Cloud didn't blind Deva and Naraka then the plan itself would've failed.

-Shared vision was an issue.
-Naruto needed to finish off Asura.
-So Dust cloud blinded Pain, allowing them to get Animal into Bunta's mouth without the other two seeing what happened, which is why they had no idea where she was until Naruto had killed her, because they never saw her get swallowed up in the first place

So no, Pain couldn't see.

And Sharingan being able to see chakra through solid objects doesn't matter. Between Sasuke's LoS and the object behind whatever obstruction Sasuke is facing would be that object, so that's where Amaterasu would spawn. So no, Jiraiya doesn't get one shotted. After that, Frog Call paralyzes him and COR ends it.

 

[BLAZE]

^^^Isn't genjustu restricted or is it only for sasuke

 

[KidGamer65]

Lmfao. Forgot that Genjutsu was restricted, but I didn't use any Genjutsu in my argument anyway.

 

[BLAZE]

Lmfao. Forgot that Genjutsu was restricted, but I didn't use any Genjutsu in my argument anyway.

My bad i again mistook frog call for frong song

 

[LoZelda101]

*Taka Sasuke

Conditions: Sasuke CM2 and limited to rib-cage susanoo. 20 meters.

Restrictions: Genjutsu

Area: Destroyed Konoha

Intel: Amaterasu.

I'm so confused. i have no idea which sasuke version you're talking about. if it's curse mark sasuke only, jiraiya stomps easily. if it's rib cage sasuke with his amaterasu only, jiraiya would still win (if he uses sage mode before getting hit by amaterasu). nothing in sasuke's arsenal can match sage mode perception or constant big ball rasengans atleast not until he gets armored susanoo and blaze release, then maybe he could beat jiraiya if he keeps the pressure on, which sasuke is usually good at.

side note: regular amaterasu is inconsistent and slow in it's devouring stages. i can't see it devouring big ball rasengans before his susanoo rib cage comes into contact with it.

 

[Apêx1]

Lol Dude. Like I just said Jiraiya and the Elder Toads are fused together, thus if their chakra is disturbed Jiraiya will feel that it's disturbed in the same way that the Bijuu feel that their Jinchuuriki's chakra is disturbed, and don't try to argue it's different, because it's not. Fukasaku's attempted fusion with Naruto and Kurama rejection clear that up. Second of all, if a Bijuu can feel that his Jinchuuriki's chakra is disturbed there's no reason a sensor type shinobi would be unable to do the same. So Jiraiya will know they are under Genjutsu from the start, so then it all comes down to who can act first, and I'll go with the faster ones, not the slower ones. Whether he uses Kai or uses his hair to inflict Pain. Lmfao. If you read before you replied you would've realized that I addressed your entire argument in my last post.

Entirely based on nothing. Bijuu feel when their Jinchuriki's chakra is disturbed? Since when? last I checked Hachibi could only tell Bee was in Genjutsu versus Itachi because Itachi made it apparent for Bee by turning the crows into Shurikens. But Genjutsu had been inactive since Bee supposedly caught Itachi with his tentacle. That was a long time before Bee questioned it being Genjutsu, and Hachibi breaking him out thereafter. If a Genjutsu like the one used by Sasuke on Danzo is used to mimic reality then there's 0 reason to believe the Bijuu will break out his partner seeing how he won't know about the presence of a Genjutsu. Jiraiya will realise that he's not receiving chakra from Pa, but he will;
1. Be surprised
2. Not know why
3. Need to react to it before he does '1' and '2'
4. Need to physically touch Ma or Pa with his hands in order to Kai them out.

Yea..... No. Not happening before one of the two Elders literally move their arm. And Sasuke won't have any surprise factor like Jiraiya will, it'll happen long before Jiraiya can do anything about it. Pain would break him out, but there's no chance in hell Jiraiya will attack Pa or Ma with his hair without knowing for certain what's wrong.

Then he'll have to paralyze Sasuke with Frog Call before he decides to charge in with COR.

Would never work given Genjutsu would occur before this. They also jump into the air when using this, Chidori Senbon aimed at all 3 of them could easily hit them while they're incapable of manoeuvring themselves in the air and prevent Jiraiya from doing anything in the midst of it. Same would apply to something like his Katon Dragons. And anyways, Frog Call only seals movements. If Sasuke's looking at their target direction he could still use Amaterasu in the midst of his paralysis since only moving is halted, moulding chakra and anything of the like is still a possibility. Not to mention Frog Call is short-lasted. It's not a permanent effect, no reason for me to believe he'd be paralysed for too long given Cereberus was capable of screaming 3 pages later and moving a few more later

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. CM Susano and Amaterasu save Sasuke, Frog Call only lasts as long as it's being used. Affected during its use

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yet no longer affected when it was finished and he could scream

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. Also, I'm having trouble understanding why Sasuke couldn't Enton the

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of the v1 Susano and grab Jiraiya behind his COR even while Sasuke's movements are sealed. This would happen before the COR explodes, since it's not an immediate process.

Yes, I already know how Dust Cloud works. Second of all if Dust Cloud didn't blind Deva and Naraka then the plan itself would've failed.

-Shared vision was an issue.
-Naruto needed to finish off Asura.
-So Dust cloud blinded Pain, allowing them to get Animal into Bunta's mouth without the other two seeing what happened, which is why they had no idea where she was until Naruto had killed her, because they never saw her get swallowed up in the first place

So no, Pain couldn't see.

And Sharingan being able to see chakra through solid objects doesn't matter. Between Sasuke's LoS and the object behind whatever obstruction Sasuke is facing would be that object, so that's where Amaterasu would spawn. So no, Jiraiya doesn't get one shotted. After that, Frog Call paralyzes him and COR ends it.

Ah, yea. Rinnegan seems to get blinded, but its chakra vision isn't like the Sharingan's anyways so it doesn't matter. I'm not following you on the bold though. How does this make sense? Are you saying Kakashi would not be capable of using Kamui on the person within Susano, but rather the Kamui would hit the beginnings of the obstruction, the Susano, instead of the user? And anyways, assuming you are right about this (which I'd lik you to prove since I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion), Ama still one shots him because he will think he's safe from Amaterasu inside the Dust Cloud. We've already seen that if Amaterasu misses it doesn't just drop to the floor, but it keeps travelling like what happened vs Ay where it hit the Samurai in the back. So even if it spawns on the Dust Cloud's beginnings, it will still travel to the location in which Jiraiya resides and it will hit him since Sasuke sees him just fine.

 

[lolokane]

Don't see how hebi sasuke stands a chance TBH, especially when Jiraiya starts off in sennin mode.

Speed and reactions roughly equal, jiraiya is way more diverse, has way more chakra and has way more powerful jutsu (chidori vs SM chou oodama rasengan). The only way I see sasuke winning is if he sets up kirin, but even then Jiraiya has counters to that like blinding sasuke with senpou dust cloud.

 

[Magnolius]

Entirely based on nothing. Bijuu feel when their Jinchuriki's chakra is disturbed? Since when? last I checked Hachibi could only tell Bee was in Genjutsu versus Itachi because Itachi made it apparent for Bee by turning the crows into Shurikens. But Genjutsu had been inactive since Bee supposedly caught Itachi with his tentacle. That was a long time before Bee questioned it being Genjutsu, and Hachibi breaking him out thereafter. If a Genjutsu like the one used by Sasuke on Danzo is used to mimic reality then there's 0 reason to believe the Bijuu will break out his partner seeing how he won't know about the presence of a Genjutsu. Jiraiya will realise that he's not receiving chakra from Pa, but he will;
1. Be surprised
2. Not know why
3. Need to react to it before he does '1' and '2'
4. Need to physically touch Ma or Pa with his hands in order to Kai them out.

Yea..... No. Not happening before one of the two Elders literally move their arm. And Sasuke won't have any surprise factor like Jiraiya will, it'll happen long before Jiraiya can do anything about it. Pain would break him out, but there's no chance in hell Jiraiya will attack Pa or Ma with his hair without knowing for certain what's wrong.




Would never work given Genjutsu would occur before this. They also jump into the air when using this, Chidori Senbon aimed at all 3 of them could easily hit them while they're incapable of manoeuvring themselves in the air and prevent Jiraiya from doing anything in the midst of it. Same would apply to something like his Katon Dragons. And anyways, Frog Call only seals movements. If Sasuke's looking at their target direction he could still use Amaterasu in the midst of his paralysis since only moving is halted, moulding chakra and anything of the like is still a possibility. Not to mention Frog Call is short-lasted. It's not a permanent effect, no reason for me to believe he'd be paralysed for too long given Cereberus was capable of screaming 3 pages later and moving a few more later

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. CM Susano and Amaterasu save Sasuke, Frog Call only lasts as long as it's being used. Affected during its use

You must be registered for see links

yet no longer affected when it was finished and he could scream

You must be registered for see links

. Also, I'm having trouble understanding why Sasuke couldn't Enton the

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of the v1 Susano and grab Jiraiya behind his COR even while Sasuke's movements are sealed. This would happen before the COR explodes, since it's not an immediate process.



Ah, yea. Rinnegan seems to get blinded, but its chakra vision isn't like the Sharingan's anyways so it doesn't matter. I'm not following you on the bold though. How does this make sense? Are you saying Kakashi would not be capable of using Kamui on the person within Susano, but rather the Kamui would hit the beginnings of the obstruction, the Susano, instead of the user? And anyways, assuming you are right about this (which I'd lik you to prove since I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion), Ama still one shots him because he will think he's safe from Amaterasu inside the Dust Cloud. We've already seen that if Amaterasu misses it doesn't just drop to the floor, but it keeps travelling like what happened vs Ay where it hit the Samurai in the back. So even if it spawns on the Dust Cloud's beginnings, it will still travel to the location in which Jiraiya resides and it will hit him since Sasuke sees him just fine.

We have a winner :sdo:

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Jiraiya wins :sdo:

 

[~Ethereal~]

Jiraiya wins.

 

[Curse Mark]

We have a winner :sdo:

thanks for your judgement