Hebi Sasuke vs. Jiraiya

[Oblivionx]

lmao, i don't buy it. you beat around the bush in regards to orochi's lvl in comparison to jiraiya, so why should I be the one "contradicting" myself when you're just cherry picking. The only way you would be right is if itachi didn't held back against orochi and kakashi, but the fact is he did. just like he did against sasuke. the only difference is sasuke managed to last much longer than either of them and still was able to counter amat and several genjutsu blitz. if you're trying to imply itachi held back the most against sasuke compared to other fights, you're wrong, sasuke had the same abilties as both 3t kakashi and orochi and still outlasted both of them. that is a feat and worthy of being sannin lvl

lmao you would have a point if sasuke was a neutral shinobi to itachi just like kakashi and orochimaru. Sasuke met the requirements to break out of itachi's genjutsu lucky him and even then it is doubtful if itachi let him break Tsukiyomi or he broke out by himself. Otherwise he would be in the same situation as kakashi if not worse. Plus it was itachi's plan to die by sasuke's hand so don't compare a planned fight to an unplanned confrontation where itachi needed to end it quickly rather than drag it out to die.

 

[LoZelda101]

lmao you would have a point if sasuke was a neutral shinobi to itachi just like kakashi and orochimaru.

and you would be right if itachi didn't hold back against orochi and kakashi

Sasuke met the requirements to break out of itachi's genjutsu lucky him
and even then it is doubtful if itachi let him break Tsukiyomi or he broke out by himself

pure 100% assumptions. itachi held back yes, but there is no hints he held back on tsuku considering he didn't held back with amat. you know, a jutsu that could've actually killed sasuke. so i'm not going to waste my time arguing an 50/50 what if.

Plus it was itachi's plan to die by sasuke's hand so don't compare a planned fight to an unplanned confrontation where itachi needed to end it quickly rather than drag it out to die.

most definitely, if itachi was serious and ready to kill him he would had done so very quickly. but that doesn't mean he was less threatening towards sasuke than he was orochi and kakashi. that is the misconception that needs to end.

edit: damn, read last one wrong. I need to stop creating arguments late at night. bold is still relevant

 

[Oblivionx]

and you would be right if itachi didn't hold back against orochi and kakashi

You said he held back against orochimaru and kakashi but sasuke managed to push him farther than them, which is wrong. And how conveniently you skipped the part where sasuke met the requirements to break tsukiyomi while kakashi was one shotted by very same jutsu and was doing fine before it.

pure 100% assumptions. itachi held back yes, but there is no hints he held back on tsuku considering he didn't held back with amat. you know, a jutsu that could've actually killed sasuke. so i'm not going to waste my time arguing an 50/50 what if.

And itachi was holding back the entire battle what makes you think he didn't let sasuke break it? He wanted to make sasuke struggle and actually to make him stronger as seen by the end results of battle and at the same time make it look real.

Lol you are actually making it sound like itachi wanted to kill sasuke. Did he not hold back with amaterasu? So sasuke was running faster than his eye could track him? Not even shunshin simple running. Lol by that logic any shinobi on the level of hebi sasuke and above can outrun itachi's amaterasu. Plus he made the flames vanish after sasuke fell. He was making sure that sasuke goes all out so orochimaru will come out plus it will extend sasuke's limits.

most definitely, if itachi was serious and ready to kill him he would had done so very quickly. but that doesn't mean he was less threatening towards sasuke than he was orochi and kakashi. that is the misconception that needs to end.

Jus like you said if itachi was serious he would end it quickly just like he did with kakashi and orochimaru so you conceded your initial claim that sasuke did better than them. That was a battle where itachi planned to die. Tell me if itachi planned to die by kakashi's hand would it have been any different? Itachi let sasuke get away, sasuke didn't do anything by himself.

 

[LoZelda101]

yeah he held back against everyone that was not your claim. You said he held back more against orochimaru and kakashi then sasuke which is wrong.

1. that was my claim from the very beginning even before you entered this thread.
2. I didn't say he held back more against orochi/kakashi. I said he held back more against sasuke which is wrong.
3. what i'm saying is he put the same amount of effort he did against orochi/kakashi to sasuke.

And how conveniently you skipped the part where sasuke met the requirements to break tsukiyomi while kakashi was one shotted by very same jutsu and was doing fine before it.

I skipped it because it was obvious. an obvious point you mentioned that only strengthens my point in regards to sasuke rank.

And itachi was holding back the entire battle what makes you think he didn't let sasuke break it?

lol dude. that is the fcuking problem with the NDS. he held back, but that doesn't mean he was able to hold back his dojutsu. lmao the proof of that is in the amaterasu. sasuke even says that amaterasu would've killed him. that means itachi knew sasuke would be strong enough to counter amat, just the same he would be able to counter tsukuyomi. it's folly to take itachi's "held back" into everything.

He wanted to make sasuke struggle and actually to make him stronger as seen by the end results of battle and at the same time make it look real.

"make it look real" lmao. soooo how do you make amaterasu look real? it's obvious from a logical standpoint, that what itachi held back on wasn't his dojutsu it was his CQC and cunning skills which is what was obviously missing in comparison to his previous and edo fights. even if i'm wrong in this thread, that I know i'm right about. it's silly to believe he uses amat but holds back on tsuku.

Lol you are actually making it sound like itachi wanted to kill sasuke.

Naruto didn't want to as well yet he still use jutsus that could've easily killed sasuke. lmao

Did he not hold back with amaterasu So sasuke was running faster than his eye could track him? Lol by that logic any shinobi on the level of hebi sasuke and above can outrun itachi's amaterasu.

Circumstantial. itachi's vision was already deteriorated and considering he had MS for years it's only logical his tracking would cause issues considering he couldn't even react to the shuriken.

Plus he made the flames vanish after sasuke fell. He was making sure that sasuke goes all out so orochimaru will come out plus it will extend sasuke's limits.

yes, but by that point sasuke had already used orochi's replacement. I not trying to disprove itachi holding back, i'm trying to prove sasuke was able to counter the jutsus. besides, how is sparing sasuke with amaterasu when half his body was already turned to ashes. lmao

Jus like you said if itachi was serious he would end it quickly jus like he did with kakashi and orochimaru so you conceded your initial claim that itachi was more threatening towards sasuke compared to kakashi.

again, I didn't say that. i'm saying sasuke lasted long enough to get to amaterasu and susanoo. itachi held back against sasuke, yes. but that same held back itachi would've easily taken out kakashi much sooner than sasuke had lasted. hebi sasuke (orochi style) is sannin lvl. besides, I don't even think jiraiya used SM against hanzo when he was labelled as sannin. so technically jiraiya w/ SM is probably kage lvl

forgive grammer typo errors. tired asf

 

[Edogawa]

Hebi Sasuke isn't on Sannin level? Lmfao! This guy loves to be bias; valuing portrayal over feats is poor reasoning. Feats most of the time are better style of reasoning than portrayal, because the latter can exaggerate to hype up the reader, whereas feats are plain backed up actions. Hebi Sasuke defeated Deidara and pushed Itachi longer than Orochimaru ever did is indication he's on Sannin level. Not like Sannin is somehow an unstoppable individual of Shinobi's, when one can examine that the power-scale in Shippuden shows most characters are on Sannin's level. By the way, Hebi Sasuke bitch-slaps Tsunade. The one who wants to uphold exaggerated portrayal on top of feats is the one who is running out argument.

As for the matchup, it can go either. Jiraiya would win if he manages to set off the Sound Genjutsu, otherwise Hebi Sasuke has all what it takes to beat him. Toad summons are all under Sasuke's control, which supports his victory even further, because he can collaborate his Fire Jutsu's with Gamabunta's oil to create a Biju-sized Katon, one of which Jiraiya obviously can't counter. CQC goes to Sasuke. Sasuke has better defensive and offensive techniques than Jiraiya; defensive which consist of Orochimaru's regenerative properties and offensive which consist of Raiton having elemental advantage over Doton, and Katon collaborated with toad summons out-scales normal one.

 

[Oblivionx]

1. that was my claim from the very beginning even before you entered this thread.
2. I didn't say he held back more against orochi/kakashi. I said he held back more against sasuke which is wrong.
3. what i'm saying is he put the same amount of effort he did against orochi/kakashi to sasuke.


I skipped it because it was obvious. an obvious point you mentioned that only strengthens my point in regards to sasuke rank.

lol dude. that is the fcuking problem with the NDS. he held back, but that doesn't mean he was able to hold back his dojutsu. lmao the proof of that is in the amaterasu. sasuke even says that amaterasu would've killed him. that means itachi knew sasuke would be strong enough to counter amat, just the same he would be able to counter tsukuyomi. it's folly to take itachi's "held back" into everything.

"make it look real" lmao. soooo how do you make amaterasu look real? it's obvious from a logical standpoint, that what itachi held back on wasn't his dojutsu it was his CQC and cunning skills which is what was obviously missing in comparison to his previous and edo fights. even if i'm wrong in this thread, that I know i'm right about. it's silly to believe he uses amat but holds back on tsuku.


Naruto didn't want to as well yet he still use jutsus that could've easily killed sasuke. lmao

Circumstantial. itachi's vision was already deteriorated and considering he had MS for years it's only logical his tracking would cause issues considering he couldn't even react to the shuriken.



yes, but by that point sasuke had already used orochi's replacement. I not trying to disprove itachi holding back, i'm trying to prove sasuke was able to counter the jutsus. besides, how is sparing sasuke with amaterasu when half his body was already turned to ashes. lmao



again, I didn't say that. i'm saying sasuke lasted long enough to get to amaterasu and susanoo. itachi held back against sasuke, yes. but that same held back itachi would've easily taken out kakashi much sooner than sasuke had lasted. hebi sasuke (orochi style) is sannin lvl. besides, I don't even think jiraiya used SM against hanzo when he was labelled as sannin. so technically jiraiya w/ SM is probably kage lvl

forgive grammer typo errors. tired asf

i edited my last reply btw. And it is evident that debating further is pointless. I said everything in last reply (edited). So have a good day. Cheers

 

[Raijingan]

Honestly, Jiraya wins pretty solidly. Jiraiya simply has too much of an arsenal. So unless Sasuke can prep Kirin, which I doubt, Jiraiya takes this mid diff.

Note, if Hebi Sasuke fought Pain in place of Jiraya he would have gotten completely destroyed low diff

 

[Contrivance]

I'm drawing a blank for Jiraiya speed feats. Can he keep up with Sasuke?

 

[BLAZE]

jiraiya stomps

 

[Jugram Haschwalth]

jiraiya stomps

How? Jiraiya loses high diff battle like i said.

 

[Unorthodox]

Smh Sasuke wins Jiraiya's arsenal is 80% summoning based he gets rant over here.

 

[KidGamer65]

Engaging Jiraiya in CQC spells death due to Chou Oodama Rasengan and Frog Call. Not to mention DB 4 states that Jiraiya has Frog Kata, so ghost punches that Sasuke can't see nor does he have knowledge about. Fighting from long range spells death because Sasuke's long range techniques pale in comparison to Toad Oil Flame Bomb and Goemon. His summons can be sunk via Yomi Numa, and if Sasuke uses Chidori Nagashi to try and negate the swamp to save the summon then Jiraiya follows up with Goemon or Toad Oil Flame Bomb.

His only chance is to set up Kirin, which really isn't that hard. If he does that then he can kill Jiraiya. Otherwise Jiraiya murks him and it really shouldn't be debatable.


And using Sasuke's fight against Itachi as proof he's on Jiraiya's level makes zero sense, especially since Jiraiya would push Itachi harder than Sasuke would be able to do in that specific scenario.

Sasuke mid-high diff.

imperfect durability, kata and sensory is trash compared to naruto's. at best, jman win because of location

Lmao I hope you're joking. Mentioning the above is pointless because Sasuke's not at the level where Naruto's level of sensory and durability is needed to kill him. Location or not, Jiraiya puts him in a coffin.

 

[BLAZE]

How? Jiraiya loses high diff battle like i said.

Close combat means death for sauce.Frog kata;Larger Rasengan[Senjutsu infused];frog call etc
Jiraiya has more larger summons while Yomi Numa can be used sink manda.
Jiraiya's offensive ninjutsu>>>Sauce and only chance sauce has is kirin which i doubt he can pull of.

 

[ToshiZO]

I agree, but that isn't the point of the discussion. Mentioning how Sasuke competed with Itachi, therefore, he is Sannin Level isn't conclusive because Sasuke is literally the best counter for Itachi's abilities in comparison to Orochimaru. If Orochimaru had possession of the Sharingan and Uchiha's blood, Itachi wouldn't have humiliated him as easily as he did. Match-ups are a factor in the Battledome and Sasuke simply being capable of competing with Itachi isn't equivalent to being Sannin Level.

What in the world is Sannin level? Is Tsunade included? Yes? Then Sasuke is at that level combat wise. It doesn't get simpler than that.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Incorrect. Sasuke was in fact around Sannin level at the time. Capable of beating all three (i.e. Jiraiya being the hardest for him due to his arsenal, rather than the other two) Sannin in a one on one confrontation.

​

Lol sasuke say him I only beat oro because he was weak.
Aka death bed

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Pushing Itachi is something Orochimaru canonically could never do.

Hebi Sasuke handles Tsunade without any major issues, so clumping the Sannin together doesn't really work either.

That's because oro WHOLE GOAL WAS TO capture itachi body alive

 

[Booker]

I can't believe I'm actually reading people state Hebi Sasuke would beat SM Jiraiya low diff.

What an absolute joke. Even if you honestly believe Sasuke has a shot here, he's not beating Jiraiya anywhere below High-Diff. And that's being generous still, since Jiraiya absolutely obliterates him.

Hebi Sasuke's best feats are blitzing some fodder and killing an Orochimaru that was severely handicapped and literally hours away from dying. And he still had difficulty with that. I think he's severely overrated from his fight with Itachi.

 

[BLAZE]

That's because oro WHOLE GOAL WAS TO capture itachi body alive

still got shitted on by 3T Itachi

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Whether or not the situation favored sasuke, the fact is he still had to be in a certain lvl to even survive that handicap match. yes, sasuke was able to use his genes to counter tsuku unlike kakashi, but itachi is more than just tsuku. kakashi even orochi crumbled to just a held back 3T itachi where as sasuke managed to survive 2 MS techs. he's definitely sannin lvl. even orochi quoted hebi sasuke was leagues above KN3 and that was b4 he was absorbed by sasuke.

also, this whole "match up" terms seems iffy, cause going by that MS sasuke has been in several bad match ups not in his favor, does that lessen Killer B's credible lvl? of course not

These fact that are missing
Itachi when he fought oro in his prime
So that mean more stamina moorespeed greater chakra potency two good eyes and no mystery illness

Now sasuke beat oro where he was bedridden fact

 

[BLAZE]

Itachi when he fought oro in his prime

14 y.o itachi was in his prime

lmao what a shitposter