Hebi Sasuke vs. Jiraiya

[LoZelda101]

Incorrect. Sasuke was in fact around Sannin level at the time. Capable of beating all three (i.e. Jiraiya being the hardest for him due to his arsenal, rather than the other two) Sannin in a one on one confrontation.

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Agreed. no below sannin lvl shinobi would be able to push back even a held back itachi.

 

[NarutoX28]

Incorrect. Sasuke was in fact around Sannin level at the time. Capable of beating all three (i.e. Jiraiya being the hardest for him due to his arsenal, rather than the other two) Sannin in a one on one confrontation.

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Except that was stated. All your argument hinges on is pure speculation because it's unsubstantiated.

 

[Byakuren]

Agreed. no below sannin lvl shinobi would be able to push back even a held back itachi.

It's doubtful any of the three Sannin could initially push Itachi. Sasuke (though Itachi planned the whole fight accordingly) had the necessary tools to do so, none of the Sannin have such (even Orochimaru with Edo Tensei), seeing as how Itachi was capable of making Kabuto release the binding technique, and Dragon Sage Mode Kabuto > Pre-Zetsu Orochimaru.

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[NarutoX28]

Agreed. no below sannin lvl shinobi would be able to push back even a held back itachi.

Match-ups are a thing and Sasuke displayed abilities that no ninja could've possessed at the time to counter Itachi's arsenal. Sharingan Genjutsu, Tsukyomi, and Amaterasu were all countered effectively due to Sasuke's heritage and absorption of Orochimaru's abilities. These abilities are one in a million and you wouldn't come across a Shinobi possessing such a conveniently assembled arsenal just to counter Itachi's abilities.

 

[ToshiZO]

Except that was stated. All your argument hinges on is pure speculation because it's unsubstantiated.

Pushing Itachi is something Orochimaru canonically could never do.

Hebi Sasuke handles Tsunade without any major issues, so clumping the Sannin together doesn't really work either.

 

[Byakuren]

Except that was stated. All your argument hinges on is pure speculation because it's unsubstantiated.

Instead of saying something that holds no weight with pretentious banter, say it in a normal way, so that others can understand that what you're saying truly means nothing. Edit: I can feel more prententious banter coming. Thesaurus usage is great.

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[NarutoX28]

Instead of saying something that holds no weight with pretentious banter, say it in a normal way, so that others can understand that what you're saying truly means nothing.

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Resorting to insults as a means to mask how your argument is unsubstantiated is an ad hominem attack, a logical fallacy. Instead of ridiculing me, you should next time be consciously aware of what you're typing as to not present such a simple mistake.

 

[NarutoX28]

Pushing Itachi is something Orochimaru canonically could never do.

Hebi Sasuke handles Tsunade without any major issues, so clumping the Sannin together doesn't really work either.

Did Orochimaru possess the Sharingan and the Uchiha's blood, well equipped in handling Sharingan Genjutsu, one of the most renowned abilities a Mangekyo user has at their disposal?

 

[Byakuren]

Resorting to insults as a means to mask how your argument is unsubstantiated is an ad hominem attack, a logical fallacy. Instead of ridiculing me, you should next time be consciously aware of what you're typing as to not present such a simple mistake.

This is what we call the Varrah effect on NF.

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[ToshiZO]

Did Orochimaru possess the Sharingan and the Uchiha's blood, well equipped in handling Sharingan Genjutsu, one of the most renowned abilities a Mangekyo user has at their disposal?

Exactly Sasuke possesses those things, they don't disappear when he's not fighting Itachi.

 

[NarutoX28]

Exactly Sasuke possesses those things, they don't disappear when he's not fighting Itachi.

I agree, but that isn't the point of the discussion. Mentioning how Sasuke competed with Itachi, therefore, he is Sannin Level isn't conclusive because Sasuke is literally the best counter for Itachi's abilities in comparison to Orochimaru. If Orochimaru had possession of the Sharingan and Uchiha's blood, Itachi wouldn't have humiliated him as easily as he did. Match-ups are a factor in the Battledome and Sasuke simply being capable of competing with Itachi isn't equivalent to being Sannin Level.

 

[LoZelda101]

Match-ups are a thing and Sasuke displayed abilities that no ninja could've possessed at the time to counter Itachi's arsenal.

It's doubtful any of the three Sannin could initially push Itachi. Sasuke (though Itachi planned the whole fight accordingly) had the necessary tools to do so, none of the Sannin have such (even Orochimaru with Edo Tensei), seeing as how Itachi was capable of making Kabuto release the binding technique, and Dragon Sage Mode Kabuto > Pre-Zetsu Orochimaru.

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Whether or not the situation favored sasuke, the fact is he still had to be in a certain lvl to even survive that handicap match. yes, sasuke was able to use his genes to counter tsuku unlike kakashi, but itachi is more than just tsuku. kakashi even orochi crumbled to just a held back 3T itachi where as sasuke managed to survive 2 MS techs. he's definitely sannin lvl. even orochi quoted hebi sasuke was leagues above KN3 and that was b4 he was absorbed by sasuke.

also, this whole "match up" terms seems iffy, cause going by that MS sasuke has been in several bad match ups not in his favor, does that lessen Killer B's credible lvl? of course not

 

[Jugram Haschwalth]

Sasuke would win this High difficulty.

 

[NarutoX28]

Whether or not the situation favored sasuke, the fact is he still had to be in a certain lvl to even survive that handicap match. yes, sasuke was able to use his genes to counter tsuku unlike kakashi, but itachi is more than just tsuku. kakashi even orochi crumbled to just a held back 3T itachi where as sasuke managed to survive 2 MS techs. he's definitely sannin lvl. even orochi quoted hebi sasuke was leagues above KN3 and that was b4 he was absorbed by sasuke.

That's just an arbitrary caliber that you placed Sasuke on with nothing other than the fact that you deliberately ignored whatever advantages Sasuke possessed in comparison to both Kakashi and Orochimaru.

 

[LoZelda101]

That's just an arbitrary caliber that you placed Sasuke on with nothing other than the fact that you deliberately ignored whatever advantages Sasuke possessed in comparison to both Kakashi and Orochimaru.

lmao. first off. stop with the "advantage" BS claims

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second of all, other than out to tsuku, what discredits him from sannin lvl in comparison? cause from I'm reading here it's just you whose deliberately ignoring what is shown in the manga. using fancy words doesn't make you any less wrong buddy. besides, it's ridiculous to **** measure a rank status which was created from getting their ass kicked in the first place. Maybe sasuke is better off without such a label.

 

[NarutoX28]

lmao. first off. stop with the "advantage" BS claims

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second of all, other than out to tsuku, what discredits him from sannin lvl in comparison? cause from I'm reading here it's just you whose deliberately ignoring what is shown in the manga. using fancy words doesn't make you any less wrong buddy.

Because Sasuke dejectedly stated that he only defeated Orochimaru because he were sick in response to Karin being astonished by Sasuke's horrendous performance against Deidara. This is an explicit statement and none of your subjectivity on how Sasuke performed against Itachi is going to change that.

 

[LoZelda101]

Because Sasuke dejectedly stated that he only defeated Orochimaru because he were sick in response to Karin being astonished by Sasuke's horrendous performance against Deidara. This is an explicit statement and none of your subjectivity on how Sasuke performed against Itachi is going to change that.

lmao no. even jiraiya who is sannin lvl couldn't defeat healthy orochimaru last I checked. perfect example of someone who takes quotes at face value without factoring in circumstances. the fact is sasuke directly stated he could not defeat itachi, so this whole subjective view point that he had a favorable match up is fanfic. you act like orochi/kakashi couldn't counter 3T genjutsu or something

 

[NarutoX28]

lmao no. even jiraiya who is sannin lvl couldn't defeat healthy orochimaru last I checked. perfect example of someone who takes quotes at face value without factoring in circumstances. the fact is sasuke directly stated he could not defeat itachi, so this whole subjective view point that he had a favorable match up is fanfic. you act like orochi/kakashi couldn't counter 3T genjutsu or something

This is such a blatant contradiction when you're deliberately refusing to accept that Sasuke's circumstances enabled him to compete with Itachi as well as he did just because of your superficial view of the manga. You contradicted yourself even moreso when you stated that Orochimaru collapsed in front of Itachi's 3T Sharingan yet suddenly you're pinning it on me and stating how it is a ridiculous assertion. I'm not even going to address this until you come clean and concede that you contradicted yourself.

 

[LoZelda101]

This is such a blatant contradiction when you're deliberately refusing to accept that Sasuke's circumstances enabled him to compete with Itachi as well as he did and even moreso when you stated that Orochimaru collapsed in front of Itachi's 3T Sharingan yet are boasting about how Orochimaru wouldn't need Sasuke's advantages to counter it. I'm not going to address this until you concede that you contradicted yourself.

lmao, i don't buy it. you beat around the bush in regards to orochi's lvl in comparison to jiraiya, so why should I be the one "contradicting" myself when you're just cherry picking. The only way you would be right is if itachi didn't held back against orochi and kakashi, but the fact is he did. just like he did against sasuke. the only difference is sasuke managed to last much longer than either of them and still was able to counter amat and several genjutsu blitz. if you're trying to imply itachi held back the most against sasuke compared to other fights, you're wrong, sasuke had the same abilties as both 3t kakashi and orochi and still outlasted both of them. that is a feat and worthy of being sannin lvl

 

[Oblivionx]

Jiraya wins mid diff... He is way too superior to hebi sasuke as a shinobi. And has the arsenal to take him on as well. MS sasuke would be better match up for SM jiraya.