Hebi Sasuke vs 3T Itachi

[Draegod]

Lol forgot about summons. But Itachi can just cancel it out, then Manda would probably turn on Sasuke. CM2 durability is only strong in the wings. Every other part of his body isn't that durable thus Itachi easily penetrates with a Kunai. Chidori Nagashi would briefly stun him, but then a crow clone feint or something of that nature stops/lets him evade Sasuke's incoming "finisher" and then the match continues.

They never did, but:

-Itachi was matching KCM Naruto.
-Evaded a blindside attack from B.
-Played with B in the speed area.
-Countered his 7 swords dance far better than MS Sasuke did.
-Was reacting/moving just as fast, if not faster, than Early EMS Sasuke.

That is all enough to warrant Sasuke getting whooped by Itachi in a raw CQC encounter.

Naruto isn't a CQC expert and that small not serious skirmish is nothing to brag about. If anything that would take away from Itachis CQC ability considering Sage mode Naruto>>>>KCM naruto by a long shot and ninjas like Deva fought Sage mode and didnt get off'd, 3rd raikage and Muu were easily dodging and reacting to KCM naruto. Instead of looking at it as "itachi kept up with KCM Naruto" you should instead see it as KCM wasn't bested by itachi. Since KCM only gets a faster Shunshin (Not CQC upgrade) and more chakra tricks. His skills did not get better nor did his striking speed get faster.

Next dodging a blind side hit from a Big ass sword is nothing to talk about. Itachi when he was a kid did blind tactics for fun. Bee wasn't "blitz'ing" any one and they all were talking.

Bee with the big ass sword not once was overwhelmed by Itachi, so again it isn't anything to brag about especially when neither party was serious.

Itachi Did exactly what sasuke did at first. Only thing different was he retreated instead of trying to combat it knowing it was a losing battle. The fact that "the great Itachi" didnt counter attack and find openings showed he was out classed and smart enough to regroup.

Sasuke with EMS didnt get better in CQC/Taijutsu so he would never (except older version) be better then Itachi with just EMS in that area. More chakra does not make your body move better or faster in CQC with out proper training. Unless a scan is shown to prove more chakra made Sasuke better in CQC it's fan fic at it's best.

 

[KidGamer65]

Naruto isn't a CQC expert and that small not serious skirmish is nothing to brag about. If anything that would take away from Itachis CQC ability considering Sage mode Naruto>>>>KCM naruto by a long shot and ninjas like Deva fought Sage mode and didnt get off'd, 3rd raikage and Muu were easily dodging and reacting to KCM naruto. Instead of looking at it as "itachi kept up with KCM Naruto" you should instead see it as KCM wasn't bested by itachi. Since KCM only gets a faster Shunshin (Not CQC upgrade) and more chakra tricks. His skills did not get better nor did his striking speed get faster.

Being able to match his speed in CQC is the main point. Not to mention Base Naruto=Base Sasuke in CQC ability by the time the war has come. And no, SM Naruto isn't >>>>>KCM Naruto in CQC. KCM Naruto is superior in every single area except for lifting strength and maybe striking strength. Other than that KCM Naruto is superior.

KCM grants Naruto:

-Faster reaction speed. Key in CQC.
-More physical power. Key in CQC.
-Better movement speed outside of Shunshin contrary to your statement here. As stated below and shown in the Manga, when you use stronger chakra your physical abilities get a boost. Thus KCM Naruto moves faster than Base Naruto regardless of Shunshin. The only issue is that his feats aren't anything special in the grand scheme of things when talking about speed, but it's enough to be used as evidence for Itachi's win against Hebi Sasuke.

1. Base Naruto=Base Sasuke as shown at VoTE 2. So their skill is pretty much equal by that point.
2. Itachi is just as skilled as those two at the very least when it comes to pure Taijutsu.
3. Except Itachi can match Naruto and evade B's blindside attack while 3-Tomoe Sasuke pre EMS is below both in that area.

So Itachi would beat Sasuke.

Next dodging a blind side hit from a Big ass sword is nothing to talk about. Itachi when he was a kid did blind tactics for fun. Bee wasn't "blitz'ing" any one and they all were talking.

When it's from Killer B, yes it is. Him holding a big sword means nothing when he has the strength to swing that sword around like it's nothing. What Itachi did as a kid is irrelevant unless it was from someone as fast as Killer B.

And yes, they were talking, but that doesn't mean B wasn't trying to hit Itachi.

Bee with the big ass sword not once was overwhelmed by Itachi, so again it isn't anything to brag about especially when neither party was serious.

In overall CQC? No. In speed? Yes. That's all I mentioned.

Itachi Did exactly what sasuke did at first. Only thing different was he retreated instead of trying to combat it knowing it was a losing battle. The fact that "the great Itachi" didnt counter attack and find openings showed he was out classed and smart enough to regroup.

Already addressed this from another poster. Itachi's moves were cleaner and he did what Sasuke needed a sword to do with a Kunai, and Sasuke was still staggering when he was getting hit.

Sasuke with EMS didnt get better in CQC/Taijutsu so he would never (except older version) be better then Itachi with just EMS in that area. More chakra does not make your body move better or faster in CQC with out proper training. Unless a scan is shown to prove more chakra made Sasuke better in CQC it's fan fic at it's best.

-Madara disagrees. He clearly states that Sasuke's fluid movements are due to EMS. Better precognition w/ Sharingan=Better movements=Better CQC ability.
-Stronger chakra=Better physical abilities, as shown by Rinnegan Sasuke's physical abilities surpassing EMS Sasuke's right after getting Hagoromo's power. EMS grants him stronger and more chakra.

 

[TheUnbiasedOne]

Hebi Sasuke high difficulty.
Without enhanced precognition that Mangekyou Sharingan allows, Itachi would not have had such a taijutsu edge, though, I can agree that his physicality would be near the same advantage, seeing as he is healthy in this scenario, but it would not be to the point that he can not be combated.
*note in the Bee Fight, Sasuke was severely injured and low on stamina, as well as NOT having the Curse Mark.
In Ninjutsu, Sasuke has a significant advantage. His Katons are moderately better, and his Raiton counters Itachi's clone and Suiton advantage. In CM2 he has a complete advantage in brute power against Itachi.
In Genjutsu, I don't believe it would be a factor. Sasuke is more than able to break genjutsu, but doesn't have particularly strong genjutsu.

Overall, Sasuke would be slightly outclassed in a CQC Battle, but as soon as it enters a trading of jutsu, Itachi gets pushed, and, even when healthy, Sasuke would have more chakra and equal stamina, and CM2 would edge him out.

Without Curse Mark, Itachi Mid Diffs.

 

[Unorthodox]

Yeah, if you tie both Itachi's arms behind his back and make him wear Lee's weights then maybe CM1 and summonings become serviceable.

Really are we going to be this ignorant honestly i just want a decent argument besides your usual Itachi wank because i know this matchup belongs to Sasuke 100% of the time.

Itachi got a little throw in grab in now he's leagues above Sasuke in CQC at the end of that skirmish who had a blad running through them? If memory serves correctly that was all a genjutsu anyways.

Just like i knew that MS Sasuke would wreck Kisame

 

[Draegod]

Being able to match his speed in CQC is the main point. Not to mention Base Naruto=Base Sasuke in CQC ability by the time the war has come. And no, SM Naruto isn't >>>>>KCM Naruto in CQC. KCM Naruto is superior in every single area except for lifting strength and maybe striking strength. Other than that KCM Naruto is superior.

My point is there isn't a point since neither party went all out or was serious. And we are talking about EMS not anything past Naruto/Sages chakra being handed to sasuke. Sage mode cannonly was stated to have better reflexes by naruto himself nothing to talk about. KCM simply has more chakra and the cloak extra benefits (def etc).

KCM grants Naruto:

-Faster reaction speed. Key in CQC.
-More physical power. Key in CQC.
-Better movement speed outside of Shunshin contrary to your statement here. As stated below and shown in the Manga, when you use stronger chakra your physical abilities get a boost. Thus KCM Naruto moves faster than Base Naruto regardless of Shunshin. The only issue is that his feats aren't anything special in the grand scheme of things when talking about speed, but it's enough to be used as evidence for Itachi's win against Hebi Sasuke.

- Yep it was upgraded (not faster then SM as stated by naruto)
- yep
- His CQC (as in skills in Taijutsu) did not get better in the fighting aspect. But because of his Reaction being greatly increased he did become able to react better. But no, More chakra does not make you better in every thing. Do not use Naruto with Kyubi powers as an example when Sakura stayed a scrub in CQC after the massive chakra boost. She did not magically become a Taijutsu master like Lee or Gai, she simply became a stronger Brawler (Brawlers just swing to hit).

1. Base Naruto=Base Sasuke as shown at VoTE 2. So their skill is pretty much equal by that point.
2. Itachi is just as skilled as those two at the very least when it comes to pure Taijutsu.
3. Except Itachi can match Naruto and evade B's blindside attack while 3-Tomoe Sasuke pre EMS is below both in that area.

1. No that is a poor example as Chakra was still being used and

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. And Sasuke was severely weakened and fought with one eye. They didnt use skill, just brawled at a weakened state.
2. In skills yes he is better over all, agreed.
3. No, Naruto could parry with Itachi is how you should look at it. When in point 2 you just stated Itachi was better in taijutsu correct? And again Itachi attacks with out looking all the time, nothing to brag about. And again Naruto didnt even use the added extra chakra hands that we for a fact know Itachi cannot counter. That right there shows it wasnt a end all be all Taijutsu fight till the death. You can choose to believe it was the end all be all Max effort from both or see it what it was; a small skirmish with them talking.

So Itachi would beat Sasuke.

Never said who would win, just pointing out the overrated fighting scene that this site only think was an amazing all out battle.

When it's from Killer B, yes it is. Him holding a big sword means nothing when he has the strength to swing that sword around like it's nothing. What Itachi did as a kid is irrelevant unless it was from someone as fast as Killer B.

And yes, they were talking, but that doesn't mean B wasn't trying to hit Itachi.

Whether its light or heavy isnt the point its big and easy to avoid. Even 3 tomoe Jins avoided the swords as well for fun. And ofc Bee was trying to hit him (lol), But thats like me saying; if a ninja threw a Kunai and it misses, is that all they had to offer? When in reality it wasn't and was just a simple move i did to attempt to affect you.

In overall CQC? No. In speed? Yes. That's all I mentioned.

We're on the same page.

Already addressed this from another poster. Itachi's moves were cleaner and he did what Sasuke needed a sword to do with a Kunai, and Sasuke was still staggering when he was getting hit.

Running and retreating is running and retreating. Whether a kunai or sword doesn't matter that much when you were on def the entire time. If Itachi landed or went offense then maybe it could be talked about. But he literally ran. Like literally escaped getting Offed. Whether soon or later doesn't matter, he knew he couldn't win that battle (manga fact). Again, whether sooner or later doesn't matter.

-Madara disagrees. He clearly states that Sasuke's fluid movements are due to EMS. Better precognition w/ Sharingan=Better movements=Better CQC ability.
-Stronger chakra=Better physical abilities, as shown by Rinnegan Sasuke's physical abilities surpassing EMS Sasuke's right after getting Hagoromo's power. EMS grants him stronger and more chakra.

Or better vision means better predicted strikes. As seen with juubito's Flight attack, he slashed where he would be. Chakra it self (unless a cloak like Aye, Naruto, Bee) doesn't make you better in everything unless stated so to do such like Sage mode grants. Sakura and Tsunade are literally the best examples! All that chakra but stayed the same in CQC, with only there Shunshin speed upping because that requires chakra, Neither Reactions increased etc etc. Rinnengan Sasuke showed nothing in CQC that suggest he was better the EMS, he resorted to Jutsu's the entire time. Like literally no boxing or kicking was made.

 

[KidGamer65]

My point is there isn't a point since neither party went all out or was serious. And we are talking about EMS not anything past Naruto/Sages chakra being handed to sasuke. Sage mode cannonly was stated to have better reflexes by naruto himself nothing to talk about. KCM simply has more chakra and the cloak extra benefits (def etc).

Except there's no basis for that. Itachi was being controlled by Kabuto, so there's no way he was holding back. Naruto has no reason to hold back against them either when they are mind controlled zombies. As for SM, explained below. Superior sensing=/=Superior physical reaction speed. KCM grants more chakra, cloak benefits AND stronger chakra as Kurama's chakra>>>>Base Naruto's in strength. Thus his abilities get a boost.

- Yep it was upgraded (not faster then SM as stated by naruto)
- yep
- His CQC (as in skills in Taijutsu) did not get better in the fighting aspect. But because of his Reaction being greatly increased he did become able to react better. But no, More chakra does not make you better in every thing. Do not use Naruto with Kyubi powers as an example when Sakura stayed a scrub in CQC after the massive chakra boost. She did not magically become a Taijutsu master like Lee or Gai, she simply became a stronger Brawler (Brawlers just swing to hit).

-Naruto only said that the sensing was superior. Not the reaction speed.

-Yeah, his skills didn't get better, but his reaction speed did thus his performance would increase as well, which is what I'm talking about. Not his skills. You don't need an increase in skill to dramatically increase your performance. That's why Gai can take on JJ Madara in the 7G despite Base Gai being unable to do so. A boost in physical ability. Sakura is a bad example because she only got more chakra. Naruto got stronger chakra, and stronger chakra increases physical ability.

1. No that is a poor example as Chakra was still being used and

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. And Sasuke was severely weakened and fought with one eye. They didnt use skill, just brawled at a weakened state.

Them being at full power doesn't make their skill any better, it only makes their physical status better thus their performance increases. Skill would stay the same as long as they had the ability to actually fight.

3. No, Naruto could parry with Itachi is how you should look at it. When in point 2 you just stated Itachi was better in taijutsu correct? And again Itachi attacks with out looking all the time, nothing to brag about. And again Naruto didnt even use the added extra chakra hands that we for a fact know Itachi cannot counter. That right there shows it wasnt a end all be all Taijutsu fight till the death. You can choose to believe it was the end all be all Max effort from both or see it what it was; a small skirmish with them talking.

Fine, Itachi matches Naruto in an enhanced state, which would make him better than Pre MS Sasuke since Pre MS Sasuke would be inferior to KCM Naruto in Taijutsu.

Naruto not using chakra arms in a taijutsu fight doesn't mean that he wasn't going all out in the Taijutsu fight. Them talking doesn't show that either. Itachi was fighting to kill as he was controlled by Kabuto, and Naruto and B were fighting to defeat Itachi and Nagato so they could be free of Kabuto's control. It makes no sense for them to hold back.

Underlined doesn't make sense. Itachi attacking has nothing to do with anything here. The point is that he dodged Killer B while matching Naruto in CQC.

Never said who would win, just pointing out the overrated fighting scene that this site only think was an amazing all out battle.

Oh, alright then.

Whether its light or heavy isnt the point its big and easy to avoid. Even 3 tomoe Jins avoided the swords as well for fun. And ofc Bee was trying to hit him (lol), But thats like me saying; if a ninja threw a Kunai and it misses, is that all they had to offer? When in reality it wasn't and was just a simple move i did to attempt to affect you.

Uh, no. It being big=/=It being easy to avoid. That doesn't even make sense. And where did the bold happen? B only tossed a sword at them, he never charged them and tried to slash them. Like I said and like the Manga shows, Itachi is in the middle of a skirmish with Naruto yet he easily reacts to B coming behind him with an attack and dodges. The main point isn't that he dodged or that it was a blindside from B. The point is he evaded a blindside attack from Killer B while fighting Naruto in CQC.

Running and retreating is running and retreating. Whether a kunai or sword doesn't matter that much when you were on def the entire time. If Itachi landed or went offense then maybe it could be talked about. But he literally ran. Like literally escaped getting Offed. Whether soon or later doesn't matter, he knew he couldn't win that battle (manga fact). Again, whether sooner or later doesn't matter.

When discussing Itachi vs. B it doesn't matter, but when comparing how Sasuke performed compared to how Itachi performed in that instance, it matters. Aside from Sasuke trying to fight B after the initial attack, Itachi performed better than he did with a Kunai, while Sasuke performed worse, but had a sword.

Or better vision means better predicted strikes. As seen with juubito's Flight attack, he slashed where he would be. Chakra it self (unless a cloak like Aye, Naruto, Bee) doesn't make you better in everything unless stated so to do such like Sage mode grants. Sakura and Tsunade are literally the best examples! All that chakra but stayed the same in CQC, with only there Shunshin speed upping because that requires chakra, Neither Reactions increased etc etc. Rinnengan Sasuke showed nothing in CQC that suggest he was better the EMS, he resorted to Jutsu's the entire time. Like literally no boxing or kicking was made.

And that is exactly why CQC performance increases when your precognition increases. That's why Sasuke went from getting slapped around by Naruto to slapping him around back in Part 1 after he got the third tomoe. And no, chakra in itself does make you far better than you normally would be regardless of it being a cloak, but only when the chakra is stronger. Sakura and Tsunade's seal gives the more chakra. EMS grants Sasuke stronger chakra. The whole reason Sage Mode grants boosts is because Senjutsu Chakra>Regular chakra in strength. But anyway:

-KN0 Naruto>>Base Naruto in physical ability despite there being no cloak. Shown every time Naruto enters the mode.
-Sasuke is fast enough to catch up to JJ Madara after Hagoromo's boost, yet he's not even as fast as KCM Naruto before Hagoromo's boost.
-Kakashi is fast enough to react to Kaguya's attacks and catch her offguard after getting Hagoromo's chakra, despite Kakashi being slower than KCM Naruto, who was getting blitzed by Juubito.
-Sasuke went from being barely able to react to Juubito, to being able to react to JJ Madara.

 

[itsxtrayy]

Naruto isn't a CQC expert and that small not serious skirmish is nothing to brag about. If anything that would take away from Itachis CQC ability considering Sage mode Naruto>>>>KCM naruto by a long shot and ninjas like Deva fought Sage mode and didnt get off'd, 3rd raikage and Muu were easily dodging and reacting to KCM naruto. Instead of looking at it as "itachi kept up with KCM Naruto" you should instead see it as KCM wasn't bested by itachi. Since KCM only gets a faster Shunshin (Not CQC upgrade) and more chakra tricks. His skills did not get better nor did his striking speed get faster.

Next dodging a blind side hit from a Big ass sword is nothing to talk about. Itachi when he was a kid did blind tactics for fun. Bee wasn't "blitz'ing" any one and they all were talking.

Bee with the big ass sword not once was overwhelmed by Itachi, so again it isn't anything to brag about especially when neither party was serious.

Itachi Did exactly what sasuke did at first. Only thing different was he retreated instead of trying to combat it knowing it was a losing battle. The fact that "the great Itachi" didnt counter attack and find openings showed he was out classed and smart enough to regroup.

Sasuke with EMS didnt get better in CQC/Taijutsu so he would never (except older version) be better then Itachi with just EMS in that area. More chakra does not make your body move better or faster in CQC with out proper training. Unless a scan is shown to prove more chakra made Sasuke better in CQC it's fan fic at it's best.

My point is there isn't a point since neither party went all out or was serious. And we are talking about EMS not anything past Naruto/Sages chakra being handed to sasuke. Sage mode cannonly was stated to have better reflexes by naruto himself nothing to talk about. KCM simply has more chakra and the cloak extra benefits (def etc).



- Yep it was upgraded (not faster then SM as stated by naruto)
- yep
- His CQC (as in skills in Taijutsu) did not get better in the fighting aspect. But because of his Reaction being greatly increased he did become able to react better. But no, More chakra does not make you better in every thing. Do not use Naruto with Kyubi powers as an example when Sakura stayed a scrub in CQC after the massive chakra boost. She did not magically become a Taijutsu master like Lee or Gai, she simply became a stronger Brawler (Brawlers just swing to hit).



1. No that is a poor example as Chakra was still being used and

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. And Sasuke was severely weakened and fought with one eye. They didnt use skill, just brawled at a weakened state.
2. In skills yes he is better over all, agreed.
3. No, Naruto could parry with Itachi is how you should look at it. When in point 2 you just stated Itachi was better in taijutsu correct? And again Itachi attacks with out looking all the time, nothing to brag about. And again Naruto didnt even use the added extra chakra hands that we for a fact know Itachi cannot counter. That right there shows it wasnt a end all be all Taijutsu fight till the death. You can choose to believe it was the end all be all Max effort from both or see it what it was; a small skirmish with them talking.





Never said who would win, just pointing out the overrated fighting scene that this site only think was an amazing all out battle.





Whether its light or heavy isnt the point its big and easy to avoid. Even 3 tomoe Jins avoided the swords as well for fun. And ofc Bee was trying to hit him (lol), But thats like me saying; if a ninja threw a Kunai and it misses, is that all they had to offer? When in reality it wasn't and was just a simple move i did to attempt to affect you.





We're on the same page.



Running and retreating is running and retreating. Whether a kunai or sword doesn't matter that much when you were on def the entire time. If Itachi landed or went offense then maybe it could be talked about. But he literally ran. Like literally escaped getting Offed. Whether soon or later doesn't matter, he knew he couldn't win that battle (manga fact). Again, whether sooner or later doesn't matter.




Or better vision means better predicted strikes. As seen with juubito's Flight attack, he slashed where he would be. Chakra it self (unless a cloak like Aye, Naruto, Bee) doesn't make you better in everything unless stated so to do such like Sage mode grants. Sakura and Tsunade are literally the best examples! All that chakra but stayed the same in CQC, with only there Shunshin speed upping because that requires chakra, Neither Reactions increased etc etc. Rinnengan Sasuke showed nothing in CQC that suggest he was better the EMS, he resorted to Jutsu's the entire time. Like literally no boxing or kicking was made.

Really bro? I made a thread:

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[Dreamland]

Restrict everything accept taijutsu and shurikenjutsu. yeah Itachi wins.