Yes he can you don't need to see/look at your opponent when fighting. This was proven by kabuto
Hebi Sasuke>>Sage Mode Naruto
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Uchihauzamakibarrage
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Uchihauzamakibarrage
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There are 3 different type of Sage Mode's: You have Naruto and Jiraiya who learned their Sage Mode from Toad/Frogs and with each different type of Sage Mode grants the user special properties. There's Toad SM, Snake SM, and Slug SM. Naruto uses Toad SM, Orochimaru/Mitsuki uses Snake SM, and it's strongly favored that Hashirama used Slug SM. Each one are similar but yet differ in other aspects. A difference I can already point out to you, that Naruto can't do with his SM, is that Kabuto was able to manipulate the cave to his advantage in the battle of Itachi and Sasuke vs Kabuto, another is that Toad's used Genjutsu via sound/frequency, while Kabuto used visual Genjutsu against both Sasuke and Itachi.
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True but think of it like this:
1. The sharingans are all the same until the reach the mangekyo sharingan stage and grants each individual a certain ability for example.. Sasuke got his amaterasu manipulation, itachi got Tskuyomi etc.
2. The rinnegan, each Rinnegan user gets a special ability: sasuke with his ameno and madara with his limbo (nagato don't count as they were not his eyes). But they all have the six paths as they come with the eyes.
3. Bijuu's all heal there hosts but each Bijuu can grant their jinchuuriki a special ability for example: negative sensing, ink, sand manipulation, bubbles, lava, superhuman strength etc.
Now sage to me is the same, they all have some similarities like sensing (danger and all other sensing, senjutsu techniques, enhanced strength,speed, chakra boost and some other things. But as you said kabuto can use his sage mode to manipulate his surrounding (like the cave) depending where he's actually at. Naruto's one comes with the special taijutsu (frog Kata). Manipulating the surrounding natural energy to attack his enemies without them knowing and can't defend against them.
So yeah the sage modes to me are the same but they each have extra abilities that come with them the makes them differ slightly from each.
That's my take on it.
Tantalus Thief
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screw that. War arc SM Naruto is enough to wreck him. It baffles me how this thread got this far.
LoZelda101
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lol this thread again.
frog kata is the only factor for naruto's SM win, once sasuke obtained susanoo and flame control, he easily negs naruto.
frog kata is the only factor for naruto's SM win, once sasuke obtained susanoo and flame control, he easily negs naruto.
LoZelda101
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Uchihauzamakibarrage
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Naruto has never summoned Bunta with his own chakra before the war arc. Show me that panel.
Proof (context at hand)? Without proof, it doesn't exist. Where has he summoned more than one largest animal? Where has anyone summoned more than one largest animal?
Comparable speed feats?
No offense, but unlike you, I know how to calculate mach numbers. And that's not how it is calculated. Don't even go there, man. Don't go off to the deep end. It's stupid how they have come up with that number. Period.
Are we still doing this? No seriously, are we? Do you really think he did no research at all and used comparable kneading stances and clay based explosives for nothing? Deidara constantly commenting on the speed of the shockwaves unable to catch Sasuke etc? All of that is a coincidence because it doesn't sit well with the idea that SM Naruto is so much faster? No, it just seems like you don't want to give the credit as there is nothing comprarable from the likes of Naruto in SM other than fanfictions on several forums exalting his speed, when it doesn't even exist in the manga.
Let's get things straight:
Deidara uses composition C.
"Plastic explosive is a soft and hand moldable solid form of explosive material. Within the field of explosives engineering, plastic explosives are also known as putty explosives."
Source :
"C-4 or Composition C-4 is a common variety of the plastic explosive family known as Composition C. The British version of the explosive is known as PE-4. C-4 is composed of explosives, plastic binder, plasticizer to make it malleable, and usually a marker or odorizing taggant chemical.
C-4 has a texture similar to modeling clay and can be molded into any desired shape"
Source :
"Plastic explosive is a soft and hand moldable solid form of explosive material. Within the field of explosives engineering, plastic explosives are also known as putty explosives."
Source :
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"C-4 or Composition C-4 is a common variety of the plastic explosive family known as Composition C. The British version of the explosive is known as PE-4. C-4 is composed of explosives, plastic binder, plasticizer to make it malleable, and usually a marker or odorizing taggant chemical.
C-4 has a texture similar to modeling clay and can be molded into any desired shape"
Source :
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Wait, here is more:
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More still:
Real life explosives kneading; it's malleable and thus can easily be used to give it any shape. And by any, I mean any:
How Deidara does it? He kneads it to give it shape. It's clay as well:
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How Deidara does it? He kneads it to give it shape. It's clay as well:
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Does that even come as a surprise? All Uchihas are extremely fast. Obito was ***** slapping several KCM clones and handling Gai and Kakahi. He had no trouble following and evading BM Naruto either. Madara had zero trouble following and swatting away Naruto in BM. Zero. When he ran blind, he pushed Naruto into the ground. He dug a trench with his mug. He couldn't even evade in SM, when Madara had yet to absorb SM from Hashirama.
Itachi was evading KCM Naruto and Bee. The latter is considerably faster than Naruto based on his feats. He also put up Susano'o before lightning could strike down. The fact that it immediately struck down after the flash means that it was well above mach 20. And Itachi was sick then.
Sasuke is no different. Really, why is it a surpsie that Sasuke is the faster one here?
Yeah, because Jubi Jins have such great body defenses. I mean a regular sword and hand did this to Madara, who is a perfect Sage, unlike Obito:
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Like I said, it'll do shit to Sasuke in CS2.
What exactly am I looking at in this scan? "Makes use of NE in the surrounding?" You mean he absorbs it to create Senjutsu? All right. What else? Wait, this is what he says, "It was that energy that manifested as an extension of Naruto's body and attacked Pain!" Energy manifesting as the extension of the user's body. Now what does that mean? It means Senjutsu. Don't just read the first part. Read the whole thing.
Where did I say he can identify clones? Did he take him by surprise and bested him? Now that is the real question. If you are talking about the last image, then Naruto is literally holding Sasuke's arm for the other clone to hit him. Literally.
Kabuto had his lids closed to avoid Sharingan the entire time. Itachi, quite literally, lifted his lids to read his mind. Jiraiya states that sensing requires regular sensors to actually look to sense. Not only that, that is a different sage mode, given that Kabuto is quite literally an evolved snake.
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Sasuke would get curb stomped by sage mode naruto, But i believe MS sasuke> Sage Mode naruto in all honesty, when he gets susanoo unless naruto has all the toads summoned.
Btw the guy saying naruto needed all the bijou to match "lord sasuke", Sasuke couldn't overpower naruto with 8.5 Bijou's chakra....damn he's weak
Btw the guy saying naruto needed all the bijou to match "lord sasuke", Sasuke couldn't overpower naruto with 8.5 Bijou's chakra....damn he's weak
The fight against Gaara was his own chakra.
Why would you believe you CAN'T summon more than one massive animal?
You can summon multiple creatures and you can summon big creatures, never once was something said to differentiate the method or workings in how both these summonings work other than chakra cost. Everything points to it being a thing, but because no one has bothered to pull it off before, its impossible?
"I know how to calculate mach numbers"....you can. Okay. But how has that made any difference in this discussion up until this point? Your argument boils down to "the explosions are fast, Sasuke outpaced them, Sasuke is fast". I pointed to a mach calculation I found and all you said was that it was wrong without even seeing it. You gave a reason, but you didn't specify it.
I do not doubt any facts you said. Kishimoto made his research and all you said about real life explosions is right...but Kishimoto researching things to this extent is where it starts getting farfetched. One thing is researching how explosive clay is made, moulded, etc...another thing entirely is looking up how fast the explosion of a clay explosion is so Sasuke's speed can be portrayed in realistic fashion.
Naruto is not made relying on logic to this extent, except maybe with Biology early on. IE, not once in this series where we should constantly see people moving at Mach Speeds do we even see a Sonic Boom, and this is just a minor example of Naruto's inaccuracy regarding anything past the more basic principles of physics.
I could pose an argument towards some of those but I think that'd be drifting off the main discussion. I am not denying Sasuke's speed, not really. Just trying to say that measuring it by mach speeds based on how fast a clay explosion goes is overestimating the realism in a series about chakra wielding ninjas..
Proof?
Proof? The manga has shown no such thing. He isn't a special snowflake. Your whole argument hinges on a completely false claim when no one has done it. Literally no one. Claiming that just because no one did it means that it isn't impossible is you fishing for excuses to make this seem valid at all costs. At this point, it feels like a pointless banter. Either you bring out proof of this claim or I am done with this argument.
You do realize that even if I cut it by half and bring it to 11 mach, it's still well above anything Naruto has produced, right? He has shown nothing that is anywhere near this speed; the speed to outrun a clay based explosive's shockwave. Anywhere near it.
You have no idea, apprently, as to how fast clay-based explosives shockwaves truly are. Kishimoto having Sasuke dodge C4 even, on foot and without the use of CS2 initially (when he was exhausted), is a testament to his speed. He's that fast. SM Naruto has literally nothing up his sleeve to match even half that speed. He isn't catching him. Not happening in a million years. Since, he isn't catching him, he isn't winning.
Why does it matter what is realistic for these ninjas? Lightning strikes range from 4 mach to 45 to 50 mach and well above if cloud to cloud is counted. That one is too damn fast. That's well over twice the speed of what Hebi-Sasuke dodged. A strike that ranges from 354055.68 km /hour to well above it from cloud to cloud, which would fall in the above 200 mach number category. Heck, it's mach 1800, for crying out loud and that's the average speed of a lightning strike:
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Cutting it down for the 1000th part (which the manga talks about) still puts it well above anything Hebi Sasuke did (even if I double the number), and Kishimoto made sure to show that Itachi dodged something by putting up an object against something that was moving at such a high speed. C1 and C2 shockwaves would pale in comparsion. A sick Itachi was able to do it. Kishimoto also chose to show that Sasuke dodged C1 and C2. Why name them that if he did no research? It makes no sense at all. That lightning example proves that he does some reserach. Even if he didn't read the exact numbers, he damn well knew that the shockwaves are above hypersonic range. Come on, I mean ...
He lost it in Itachi's fight. So, no? Also, are you seriously suggesting that it doesn't count?
What do you mean? Making use of NE in the surroundings is a simple process for balancing SM Chakra. The last part of the sentence makes it explicitly clear. If you make use of something in the surroundings, it isn't a natural extension of your body. That's a contradiction and makes no sense. Furhthermore, NE is everywhere. Why does it surround him for 2 inches only? Makes no sense again.
Did I? Where?
This has nothing to do with Frog Kata. Literally nothing. It's threat perception for DSM. FSM also has it, but for much less degree from the looks of it. As Hashirama's SM also also allows him to move completely blind. Kabuto was literally fighting blind. His lids were closed the whole time. Show me a panel of Naruto doing combat at Kabuto's level with his eyes closed. He can't. Why? Because he hasn't shown it.
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Sm Naruto was nerfed.. How is Hebi Sasuke suppose to take on an army of sages, frog taka & Ma,Pa soung genjutsu that we know works on the Rinne..
Kuchinawa Sasuke is good but their's no way he or any1 can take on an army of sages using genjutsu sound kata which can't be since.
This bout goes to NARUTO!!IMO
Kuchinawa Sasuke is good but their's no way he or any1 can take on an army of sages using genjutsu sound kata which can't be since.
This bout goes to NARUTO!!IMO
Fine.
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Shima summoned Naruto alongside Gamabunta, two other equally sized toads, Fukasaku and Gamakichi. Not with Reverse Summoning like I originally thought, but with the Kuchyose no Jutsu, the Summoning Jutsu itself.
I get it. Sasuke is fast.
Bringing calculations into this discussion to prove how fast Sasuke is, especially when there is nothing to point out Naruto's own feats scientifically, is just pointless for me. If you insist on taking that as your reality, fine, but this discussion won't lead to anything. We'll just be here moving in circles over and over.
No if you bring real life logic into it, yes if you accept this is a Shounen manga and that its not in any way meant to be scientifically accurate.
Its basically just Naruto throwing the punch and the Senjutsu in his body affecting the Natural Energy nearby in a ripple effect. This is especially well showcased in the anime where the punch takes a moment to hit.
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Like a ripple in the middle of a lake though, it doesn't travel very far and eventually fades away, that's why it only reaches two inches before hitting Pain.
Doesn't matter. My misconception.
You're right, it has nothing to do with Frog Kata, is a feat granted by Sage Mode itself. That's exactly the reason why Naruto went in with Sage Mode to face the Third Raikage, because he knew he'd sense his attack approaching and be able to react more quickly.
To Whatever
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A. Naruto wins with Frog song.
B. Naruto Outlasts him.
C. They both die/tie because its destiny.
D. No one gives a shit
E. Sasuke wins
F. Naruto Wins
One of these are right....
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