Hebi Sasuke>>Sage Mode Naruto
- Thread starter Guntah
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Dude, seriously? KCM would completely destroy MS Sasuke....
I wouldn't say that. Because technically speaking Kurama was Madara's summoning. And Madara and Hashirama always been somewhat near equals even without Kurama. I doubt Hashirama had that big a gap in power compared to Madara.
Agreed.
Agreed. Hashirama's chakra alone was on par with BM or BSM Naruto.
He can produce what power on his own? PS?
Shogo Makishima
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InfiniteMugen
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I didn't watch the amv I meant the fight we where shown, 5 min at best, and it was way dissapointing for what it could of been, I wasn't knocking your post so I apologize if it seemed so, that was just such a wasted fight imo
Guitar Hero
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Do it :Sparks:
Rikudou Tobi
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TheNarutoUzumaki
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Okay here is the final say for my opinion. This is not a free battle on either side. The thing is Naruto at 4 tails is more overwhelming than sasuke at anytime can handle. The cloak could easily defend against the strongest attacks and clearly the fox isn't falling for anything of that uchiha crap, hense the warning from the fox in the first place. Now for sage mode which makes this the tricky part. Naruto in that mode is God like. Physically he is far above sasuke considering he snapped a pains neck just off the miss of it, meaning that naruto doesn't have to make contact. For those making the argument that naruto had a handicap. He killed every pain by himself. with sage mode. Go back and watch the battle again, so in 15 minutes, he killed the 6 fold of pain after chibaku tensei and the fox/his dad bailing him out. It isn't just that it is increased threat perception and increased stamina for his clones as well. All of sasuke's physical attacks can not only be sensed but his reaction and physical strength against it attacks is increased. Now against sasuke. There is not one thing that Hebi sasuke does to rasen shuriken or its explosive blast. Which would kill him free. Meanwhile his own body would do just fine. Naruto in that fight against pain was extremely resourceful. If summoning the toads is cheating, I point to the Hawk or Aoba that he can summon. So edge to naruto. Lightning vs wind is bad, Naruto. His physical abilities and sense perception is above the Rinnegan which is above your average sharingan or MS. So lets not pretend that naruto is weaker than sasuke. And to all those who are saying Sasuke's fight against Tobi/Deidara is not at all unhandicaped. Without the him being an uchiha, there is not way that he wins that fight. Plus without the reverse summoning which is extreme help, he would be lost in the summoning space, which ended with him barely able beat someone who itachi beat with a simple genjutsu. I mean come on, Sasuke struggled in that fight and almost died. He got lucky that shocking himself didn't kill him. Plus the fight was against a guy who flew around while he blew up the place. Plus Tobi would never get beat by sasuke. We would agree though that Nagato/pain would body the hell out of deidara free. And yes body Sasuke. Who naruto beat, all six. So i think this is quite clear, and here is the thing to all the Naruto Haters, Normally a lot of the time Sasuke is ahead. There isn't one time usually I think that Naruto is stronger until sage mode. Sage mode, breaks the barrier for him and literally puts him in a class of his own. He went from naruto uzumaki to stronger than the current Hokage Tsunade. Now Pain Sage mode Naruto vs Taka Sasuke is different that Susano is what changes the game. It wont be till naruto enters the nine tails state again that he takes the league and is ahead till the end from there. Naruto fought harder and longer than Sasuke. Around 2 days on like 6 battle fronts and that was before him and Kurama became close friends. Sasuke doesnt stand a chance after that point till he is blessed like naruto with the Rikudo power. Making them equals that Sasuke concedes to defeat to.
SenseiSama
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No, Naruto and Sasuke went through the same phases as Indra and Ashura, Sasuke was still superior until Naruto's Yang started to bloom which didn't occur until after he tamed Kurama. Before unlocking KCM he would have to rely on co-operation to match Sasuke.
As long as Naruto is a Jinchuuriki he will never be able to use true SM without controlling Kurama's full power which is why the Sage Mode he used against Pain is not enough to defeat Sasuke.
Lol and I'm saying that you can't make these "if" scenarios all the time. The fact is Naruto will have to unlock KCM first before being able to use Sage Mode without restriction. This thread is about the Sage Mode that Naruto used against Pain.
Nope, SM Naruto isn't a perfect jin which means genjutsu works against him, and keep in mind the number of times he can use FRS is limited and thanks to pre-cog Sasuke can dodge those attacks.
In the War Arc Naruto's power was blooming and he already awakened BM, his power was equivalent to EMS Sasuke but OP is referring to SM Naruto from the Pain arc whose power is equal if not slightly inferior to Hebi Sasuke..
I get you but I compare all of them at their MAX level. At Sage Mode Narutos full potential without anything holding his true training he is more powerful then Hebi Sasuke at full power.
The Sage Mode in Pain arc is handicapped. Hebi Sasuke is not. That isy point.
FunkyFatal
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Lol I find it funny how people easily fall off topic. The threads original argument only talks about hebi sasuke and sm naruto. Lol people talking EMS/MS sasuke and KCM/BM/BSM/RSM naruto lmao.
I agree.
Sasuke was leagues ahead of Naruto pre-SM. For Pein Arc SM Naruto to destroy Hebi Sasuke, he would've had to have been close to his level before that point. SM is certainly a big enough power-up to close the cavernous gap, but it doesn't give him that much head.
It would make an interesting debate.
Umari Senju
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I see a number of people are also forgetting that during the pain fight Naruto too was also handicapped(not you directly of course) He didn't start at full power because he had 2 other clones gathering nature chakra back at the Toad Mountain meaning his full power was divided while also channeling Nature energy. And yet he still managed to beat 5 of the 6 paths with SM alone. and one of them twice.
As for Sasuke. not without MS and the same Intel Naruto had. If no one knows there's a crippled dude hiding somewhere in the vicinity, and that one of the paths resurrects the Fallen everyone looses to the 6 paths of Pain.
While Sasuke is talented at Hebi level, he just doesn't have the needed power to stop all 6th paths without Susanoo, Amateratsu. Just as SM wasn't enough to overcome them once Deva Realm got his abilities back.
As for who's stronger at that point? I believe Naruto has the edge. Many over you say we are underestimating Sasuke and perhaps many of us are. I am certainly not. This would be far from a stomp and honestly could go either way. Hebi Sasuke has Curse Mark II and this is a watered down Sage Mode in and of itself meaning, many of Sasuke's attacks, which would normally not even phase SM Naruto get boost as well making it a challenging fight. Naruto has the better SM and is more durable however so he would take this with very high difficulty.
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Hebi Sasuke defeats SM Naruto handily. Mid-difficulty is all I would give Naruto, and even that is generous. Get back to me when Naruto dodges consecutive chakra enhanced C2 blasts (C4 as well and back again to Deidara) without breaking a sweat. His FRS would prove to be a cake-walk for Sasuke compared to a blast's shockwave. Heck, that (fastest guy eva) Minato used FTG to get out of the shockwave of a measly explosive tag. That should tell you how fast Sasuke is.
Once his two FRSs are dodged, what's he left with? Nothing. He can summon one large toad only. Handing over Ma's feats to Naruto is absurd. He never managed it on his own. So, who is distracting Sasuke for him to conviniently get into SM again? Nobody. Manda is a superior summon compared to Toads. Much superior, as we saw in that Sanin tussle.
Techniques? Naruto's arsenal is laughable. His frog kata is useless against a much faster opponent, who can also see Senjutsu chakra. Even Itachi could, when Sasuke has trained in it. At CQC, the guy is defeated easily as Sasuke's Kenjutsu is top tier (only matched by Bee) in his Hebi days.
I mean, which path couldn't dodge his "Oh so fast" FRS? The only one that actually fell in was because he launched the other one out. A willing sacrifice. So over-rated; every single one of this guy's laughable modes. Also, Genjutsu anyone? Quite the gameover for the high-end jackass with no Kurama-roids to fall back on.
Once his two FRSs are dodged, what's he left with? Nothing. He can summon one large toad only. Handing over Ma's feats to Naruto is absurd. He never managed it on his own. So, who is distracting Sasuke for him to conviniently get into SM again? Nobody. Manda is a superior summon compared to Toads. Much superior, as we saw in that Sanin tussle.
Techniques? Naruto's arsenal is laughable. His frog kata is useless against a much faster opponent, who can also see Senjutsu chakra. Even Itachi could, when Sasuke has trained in it. At CQC, the guy is defeated easily as Sasuke's Kenjutsu is top tier (only matched by Bee) in his Hebi days.
I mean, which path couldn't dodge his "Oh so fast" FRS? The only one that actually fell in was because he launched the other one out. A willing sacrifice. So over-rated; every single one of this guy's laughable modes. Also, Genjutsu anyone? Quite the gameover for the high-end jackass with no Kurama-roids to fall back on.
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Ah, I've been waiting for this
As for the Sage Mode...well, Naruto starts in Sage Mode, thus the discussion is in between Sage Mode Naruto versus Sasuke, not in between Pain arc Naruto versus Sasuke.
Though this might not be able to kills Sasuke alone, the damage it would do if a direct blow is landed is undeniable. Hell, a punch alone in Sage Mode was enough to kill Preta Path upon making contact.
Frog Kata in this place is just as deadly as Sasuke's sword. Which shouldn't be that much of a challenge either.
If he can break it is arguable, but he definitely isn't defenseless seeing as he did keep up with pain's bukijutsu using only a kunai for a while. He could not beat Sasuke in it, of course, but he would be able to avoid being cut by Sasuke's Kenjutsu with it.
Naruto knows not to look into a Sharingan user's eyes and has the perfect tool to avoid doing so with Sage Mode, seeing as he can feel where his opponent's attacks are coming without even having to rely on his vision. Other than dispelling it, there is no better way presented in the manga to avoid Sharingan Genjutsu like this one.
Well, Sasuke was simply dodging blasts witn no distraction. Put five Sage Mode clones in his way and suddenly dodging something as fast as Futon RS is not as easy. Plus, I doubt he'd see its sudden expansion coming. Put those two and the Rasenshuriken's proven speed together and dodging the Rasenshuriken suddenly becomes far more of a challenge.
One large toad only? A kid Naruto was able to summon Gamabunta once gathering his chakra and didn't even seem that tired afterwards. Senjutsu enhanced Naruto should do far more.
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As for the Sage Mode...well, Naruto starts in Sage Mode, thus the discussion is in between Sage Mode Naruto versus Sasuke, not in between Pain arc Naruto versus Sasuke.
Naruto's arsenal is laughable? Naruto's arsenal is more than enough with Sage Mode. This is what a simple Rasengan did against Ashura Path
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Though this might not be able to kills Sasuke alone, the damage it would do if a direct blow is landed is undeniable. Hell, a punch alone in Sage Mode was enough to kill Preta Path upon making contact.
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Frog Kata in this place is just as deadly as Sasuke's sword. Which shouldn't be that much of a challenge either.
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If he can break it is arguable, but he definitely isn't defenseless seeing as he did keep up with pain's bukijutsu using only a kunai for a while. He could not beat Sasuke in it, of course, but he would be able to avoid being cut by Sasuke's Kenjutsu with it.
Futon Rasenshuriken is not a jutsu that you just throw against an opponent like Sasuke. It requires preparation, distraction, something Naruto and his clones are experts at, as examples have shown again and again. As for Genjutsu...really, dude?
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Naruto knows not to look into a Sharingan user's eyes and has the perfect tool to avoid doing so with Sage Mode, seeing as he can feel where his opponent's attacks are coming without even having to rely on his vision. Other than dispelling it, there is no better way presented in the manga to avoid Sharingan Genjutsu like this one.
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No distractions? You mean like constantly being bombarded with C2 homing birds and mines laid by Tobi as well, whilst Naruto had the help of how many toads? Naruto has no equvilent speed. Not even close. Your argument makes no sense.
No one has been able to summon more than one large summon (largest of Manda's, Katsuya's size etc.) onto the battlefield. Literally no one. If this is kid Naruto, then he did so with Kurama's chakra.
Who cares what he starts in?
What is his HUGE arsenal? One Rasengan and one FRS? Wow! That's very versatile, all right. A path that was focused on Tsunade doesn't mean anything.
It would have to touch Sasuke's body first. And CS2 (God forbid it, if it does happen by a sheer grace of miracle) will shrug it off like nothing. It wouldn't even dent his body, given that it completely survived being damaged (bar one wing) against a massive C2 blast from Deidara. One Rasengan is doing shit.
It isn't even effective outside 2 inches. That is its range. The leg or punch has to be that close for it to even work. Like I said, Sasuke is too fast. Sharingan helps in detecting it.
Pein is far from a speedster. Far from it. At CQC, Sasuke would be indefinitely faster. Much faster. Secondly, stabbing attacks cannot even be countered. As Sasuke easily stabbed clean through Madara's arm and he was in SM then.
If a 12-year-old Sasuke can easily fool Orochimaru and Danzo ... what chances does Naruto have in fooling him? None.
And yet, he has been looking at Sharingan every single time, haha. Not only that, Sasuke's Genjutsu doesn't even require eye contact when he caught Deidara in Genjutsu twice. And the distance was well over 100 feet the second time.
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Well, maybe no distractions a is a bit too much. Still, Naruto has a considerable speed boost from Sage Mode, so at the very least he should rank just behind Sasuke in terms of speed. Five Naruto at once with this kind of boost would be far harder to handle then.
Just because it has never been done before doesn't mean it can't be done. We've seen Nagato summon more than one before.
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As for Naruto doing so without the Kyuubi's chakra....
[video=youtube_share;Ex83xmDARv8]https://youtu.be/Ex83xmDARv8[/video]
You can see that this is his own chakra. Mainly because he only calls for the Kyuubi later on in the fight.
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And that is a kid Naruto with no Senjutsu after parting his chakra into hundreds of clones.
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So is Naruto capable of calling three big summons to match Manda? Very likely. Two? Most certainly. His feats indicate so.
I never said huge. Huge is a powerful word. I said it was enough. As for Naruto taking down a path by surprise...you're right. The fact that it was focused on Tsunade doesn't mean anything. Because if it had taken an attack straight on, it would've still died in the same way that it did there, and that's what I'm trying to prove. One of those Rasengan would prove quite damaging to Sasuke CS2 or not. Why? Well, one thing is tanking a nearby explosion is one thing, taking a condensed ball of destruction to the chest is something else entirely.
Compare it to standing at a nearby distance from an explosion and taking a cannonball to the chest. Ask yourself which one has the higher chance of survival, as faint as both are.
I already adressed this, how much faster than Sage Mode Naruto do you think Sasuke is? At best, you'll get a "not much". Both can easily outspeed Pain in cqc, but the difference is made by the Frog Kata. Sharingan doesn't help in detecting it, because it has been in a similar situation before and it failed Sasuke then.
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And that is NAtural energy we are talking about. Not even Senjutsu, but the Natural Energy being affected by it. The SHaringan definitely can't detect that.
When did a 12 year old Sasuke fool Danzo and Orochimaru in battle?
This one just doesn't make much sense for me. Naruto never looked in Itachi's Sharingan in their first Part 2 encounter, in their second one he was caught off guard and in neither of them did he have Senjutsu by his side. In their fight during the war he didn't, elsewhere he would've been caught in Genjutsu and anywhere after that he didn't need to not look because Kurama could dispel anything thrown at him.
As for Deidara...when did he ever catch Deidara in a Genjutsu. The only time he tried this happened:
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