Healthy Nagato the strongest ninja that has ever lived?
- Thread starter Invsblphntm
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Nope, nagato has to be able to react to naruto in order to absorb his cloak, and he does not have the feats to react to a BM shunshin punch. And then there's the fact that even BM Naruto's clones can use flash shunshin.
And plus BM Naruto can make SM clones as well which kill nagato with a frog kata. NAruto delivers one of those guys into nagato in a chakra tail, disguise them as a FRS and have nagato turn to stone after absorbing it or kill him with a frog kata punch.
Current Naruto is handily above Nagato, preta path is far from instant, he not only has to mentally react to naruto's flash shunshin but also put up the jutsu as well. Full power KCM Naruto could even beat prime nagato.
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You saying Nagato can not react in time is basless, Pein was shown to have great reaction time and has shared vision and is the best sensory in the manga, so Nagato will beable to react in time no problem.
Also your fight scinerio is ridiculous, your acting like Nagato is just going to stand there and let all that happen, Nagato has shadow clones two incase you forgot. Also shinra tensei>narutos clones. And no the SM clones are signifigantly weaker than nagato and would just get blasted away.
And attack BM naruto would use would just get absorbed, and the only way Nagato is going to turn to stone is if he absorbs a SIGNIFIGANT amount of sage chakara directly from naruto himself, the clones wouldnt even have enough sage chakara to turn him into stone. It took preta to suck up sage mode entirley twice before he turned to stone. Also a rasangen from sage moed naruto will not turn Nagato into stone as we have already seen.
Also shinra tensei is a instant attack, faster than anything naruto has. Naruto cannot win cause he will get his cloack absorbed and any range attack will get absorbed cause yes becouse of shared vision, being a great sensor, and seeing Pein already has amazing reflexes Nagato will beable to react in time to stop the attacks.
And KCM naruto? Please give me a break he was about to get killed by nagato with out nagato even breaking a sweat, and Nagato was still crippled.
Nagato>BM Naruto
lol pain in no way has reaction time above Sasuke and he couldn't even track V2 Ei's movements who is far slower than KCM Naruto who is even slower than BM NAruto. Shared vision is irrelevant against attacks that you can't even react to, not that it's going to matter since naruto can easily take out nagato's eyes and then blitz him.
Nagato has failed to react to amaterasu, to totsuka, has barely reacted to Bee's V2 lariat, and has failed to react to susanoo chop. Nothing implies he can react to BM Naruto's flash shunshin.
since when has nagato ever used shadow clones? Shinra tensei in no way > Naruto's clones KCM Naruto wasn't even harmed by Nagato's shinra tensei, and Naruto can protect every and any of his clones by just letting them stay in his cloak, then after they just exit it and blitz nagato with frog katas or he can deliver them via chakra arms.
and sm clones transformed into FRS is nagato's worse nightmare, he can't tell if they are clones or not, and he either wastes a shinra tensei on one, or he turns into stone after pretaing another.
not if nagato can't react to the attack. And theres no reason naruto would attack nagato with something slow and absorbable.
the clones have more than enough sage chakra to turn him into stone, naruto's base clone had enough to enter SM on his own and use FRS and things that he real was using against pain. His clones were the one's that were supplying him with all his natural energy back in the pain arc, of course an individual clone would have more than enough natural energy to turn nagato into stone.
It took preta to suck up sage mode entirley twice before he turned to stone. Also a rasangen from sage moed naruto will not turn Nagato into stone as we have already seen.
yet nagato's reactions are not instant, and his shinra tenseis do ZERO damage against even KCM Naruto
Nagato would never ever absorb naruto's cloak as naruto is tiers beyond tiers faster than nagato, has his own sensing and has chakra arms and full knowledge on him. So the laughable argument of "naruto is a walking chakra monster and nagato absorbs it all" is completely irrelevant as nagato is not coming anywhere near the fastest shinobi in the narutoverse.
Pein in no way has "amazing reflexes" compared to the people who can't even track V2 Ei who is far slower than BM Naruto. Deva path could barely even put up a reflexive shinra tensei against KN6, what the hell is this about him reacting to BM Naruto's TBB swatting/Mokuryu busting shunshin? Asura got blitzed by SM Naruto's shunshin.
oh yeah, lets ignore the fact that Naruto wasn't even trying to fight nagato, was in midair and thus his speed was irrelevant, nagato just got mobility naruto was not aware of, Naruto was at less than 7% his max chakra, couldn't make clones, was hit with so much PIS he was literally asking nagato to teach him rinnegan techniques while getting his soul removed, was not friendly with kurama, and was getting his reserves sucked dry by Kurama for just using the KCM cloak.
Going by your logic edo itachi > nagato. No, Nagato can't even hurt KCM Naruto with his shinra tenseis, the same tactic applies KCM Naruto blitzes nagato's face off with a flash shunshin or blitz-throat slashes him while he's busy fight a bunch of other kage level clones and sage clones that he can't absorb.
lol in no way shape or form is that true, BM Naruto is almost a solid tier above nagato, KCM Naruto > Nagato
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1. Again your assumtion that Pein cannot react as fast as sasuke is basless, sensory and shared vision is better than sasuke which gives Nagato ample reaction time. Nagato failed to absorb amaterasu cause he was being controlled! Are you seriously using that as a example? He easily reacted to lariat and he saw susanoo way before it came, it was becouse he had naruto in bee in his hands about to kill them, he was being controlled, and he was crippled and could hardly walk. That is why he did not dodge Susanoo. And he couldnt dodge the blade cause he was crippled! wow cant belive your using those examples. And plenty implies he can react, your are just being biased. I Bee was able to react to Minato telporting behind him, im sure Nagato a S class ninja with shared vision and top notch sensory abilities would be able to react as well.
2. Read the manga, Nagato used a shadow clone of himself and his summon(something naruto has never done) against Jman. Also yes shinra tensei will blast the clones away just like he did the KCM naruto, shoot what are you talking about? shinra tensei sent naruto KCM flying! it may not kill the clones right away but two will get the job done. Also when the clones get hit they will be blasted away and by the time they recover from the blast the 5 seconds will be up. Also yeaa the chakara arms will get abosrbed...again cant belive you used chakara arms in your argument lmao. Also the clones dont have enough sage chakara to turn nagato into stone.
3. Everything Naruto has is absorbable!!!! he is using to ninetails cloack!
4. the clones do not have enough, i already stated it took preta path to absorb narutos sage chakara twice fully before he turned to stone.
5. The point of shinra tensei is to deflect all attacks, not just damage. And yes shinra tensei takes its toll. If naruto keeps getting hit he will die.
6. Again saying Pein has slow reaction time is basless. Nagato will pull out the cloack, chakara arms whatever. Sensory abilities, and shared vision will give him that.
7. Nagato was bever mobile! Kabuto even said he wasnt that is why he was sealed in the first place. Naruto was trying to attack what the hell are you talking about? And where the hell did you get that naruto was only 7% of his chakara max? Your being soooo biased. Saying narutos clones will not get hurt by shinra tensei is sooooo dumb, also naruto has no answer for Chibaku tensei. Alone he will not be able to destroy it.
8. Nagato will win cause yes he can react fast enough, nothing naruto can do will damage him cause he will absorb it and Naruto cannot beat Chibaku Tensei.
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1st off, multiquote braddah, makes it much easier for me and it helps the debate flow a lot better
- Naruto was not trying to attack nagato, he was coming to see if bee was okay which is why he drops down from the trees and sasy "are you okay bee?"
- Naruto was at 7% chakra since he spammed his KCM chakra cloak for half a day, played tag with Ei, beat white zetsus then split his remaining chakra 13+ ways and then spammed his KCM cloak at 13x the draining rate. That's where 7% chakra comes from.
- Shinra tensei did not hurt KCM Naruto, his clones have the same durability as the real, only lower HP and they can resist it with chakra arms
- Chibaku tensei is easily destroyed with 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 , 10, 11, 12, 13+ FRS as naruto with 100% chakra has shown the ability to make 13+ KCM clones each who can spam FRS.
no its not, nagato's rinnegan does not have sharingan reactions stacked on it else obito would not have given them the sharingan to boost their reactions, and pain has never done a reaction feat above sasuke. Now where is your proof that Pein CAN react as fast as sasuke? Yeah no where.
nope, sensory is good for surprise attacks, shared vision does not do anything for attack that you can't even follow with your eyes.
yeah he was being controled and was ordered to react to enemy attacks.
nope, he only activated preta path after getting hit by it.
nope he did not see susanoo coming, he had the !? rection above his head AFTER his arms were cut off by susanoo.
Nope, Nagato had !! above his head when he got hit by the blade meaning he reacted after
bee in no way reacted to hirashin, he had his blade already there from the start.
you mean in that narrative flashback against that fodder ninja? Yeah nagato has made a max of one clone and has never used it in a fight which means it would not help him at all. When did he make a shadow clone with his summon?
not if they brace themselves either with numbers or with chakra arms
lol no, 5 seconds is an enormous amount of time to cover the distance for KCM clones and sage clones, in addition to that 5 seconds only applies to the weakest of weakest shinra tenseis the bigger the shinra tensei he uses the longer the downtime is. And finally no, his shinra tensei did no damage to KCM Naruto it's not going to pop any of his KCM clones, sage clones yes, they canonically can't survive one, KCM clones no.
Once again, naruto WAAAY back in the pain arc has made clones that store enough natural energy to give him an entire sage mode usage. His base clones have far more chakra and are of higher quality than back then, thus they can pack enough sage chakra to turn nagato into stone easily. And chakra arms are just used to DELIVER the clones, while he is absorbing the chakra arm, he absorbs the SM clones that are in it as well and thus he turns to stone. If he stops preta path, he gets killed by frog katas. If he shinra tenseis them another arm full of clones ends him.
yet nagato has to TOUCH naruto's cloak in order to absorb it which is absolutely not happening against the fastest guy in the manga.
Preta path in no way absorbed naruto's sage chakra twice fully before he turned to stone. Preta absorbed 1 FRS, 1 transformation, and 1 full reserve and turned into stone. Naruto's amount of Sage chakra he can gather has increased to 3 FRS per sage mode, which would equal that amount, and his clone have already shown that they can store as much sage chakra as the original if they are the ones that gather it.
Naruto's speed allows him to easily exploit shinra tensei's time limit, and no its not going to take a toll since zero multiplied by finite number is still zero.
I've proven both by sharingan and him barely being able to react to KN6 that he in no way can react to a flash blitz. Shared vision won't help him against attacks he can't even follow/perceive and naruto knows about it so he destroys all the shared vision summons. Sensory abilities did not help him against V2 lariat, totsuka blitz or susanoo chop. Nothing implies his sensing will allow him to react to an attack that he can't even visually perceive.
- Nagato being mobile is irrelevant since you just ignored all reasons why naruto ended up in that situation, thus the same would apply to nagato
- Naruto was not trying to attack nagato, he was coming to see if bee was okay which is why he drops down from the trees and sasy "are you okay bee?"
- Naruto was at 7% chakra since he spammed his KCM chakra cloak for half a day, played tag with Ei, beat white zetsus then split his remaining chakra 13+ ways and then spammed his KCM cloak at 13x the draining rate. That's where 7% chakra comes from.
- Shinra tensei did not hurt KCM Naruto, his clones have the same durability as the real, only lower HP and they can resist it with chakra arms
- Chibaku tensei is easily destroyed with 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 , 10, 11, 12, 13+ FRS as naruto with 100% chakra has shown the ability to make 13+ KCM clones each who can spam FRS.
bolded is baseless and I have provided positive evidence against such, yet you have not fullfilled your burden of proof. Naruto can end nagato with a flash shunshin blitz, frog kata in CQC or can turn him into stone after he absorbs a sage mode clone (which can be transformed into a FRS). Chibaku tensei is destroyed by waves of up to more than 14 FRS.
USSJ Future Trunks
Active member
he didnt know obito cant use rinnegan shit. and oro was only one of the people that kabuto intergrated. he cant exactly steal something when he absorbed oro's cells. it would kind of be like me getting a heart from a dead guy. i didnt steal it since the owner cant claim ownership
Look bro honestly this is pointless. Your not going to budge and neither am I. I believe Snsory is better and you believe sharigan is better. Go watch peins battle again, you will see how great his reaction speed is. Sensory is not only good for suprise, its also good for defending, that was such a biased statment you gave. Your still ignoring that Nagato absorbs all of Narutos attacks. And your trying to defend that Naruto KCM can beat Nagato. I believe Nagato can react fast enough to naruto with the shared vision and sensory abilities. Saying Bees sword was already there is just you trying to prove yourself in your argument lmao.
Also Pein used shadow clones while fighting Jman your gonna have to go read it again, its when Jman was fighting the animal path. Also naruto clones do not have the same durability as naruto.
Preta absorbed his chakara once when deva pulled him in, then naruto entered sage mode again and then after preta absorbing that he turned to stone. Again go review it.
Look your claming alot of things that are not manga facts at all. We are going to have to agree to disagree, im not going to debate with someone who think Naruto KCM can beat Nagato haha. And after a shinra tensei naruto will not beable to react right away. After hes done flying through the air the 5 seconds will be done. Also your right ill give it to you that Naruto can destroy CT but Chou shinra tensei will damage naruto alot, after that Nagato goes in for the kill. And your really overestimating his clones, they wont survive multiple shinra tenseis at all.
Im not going to argue all your points cause i already have above and your being extremley biased.
Again I say Healthy Nagato>Naruto
Sorry that was all bunched up and maybe confusing, but i dont know how to keep quoting your stuff lol
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FourthLegacy
Active member
You have to remember they couldnt use their full powers cause they couldnt kill him.
FourthLegacy
Active member
Maybe if the show was called Nagato...
Even Nagato said ... "youll be the final of the series clearing up the second failed series" This was foreshadowing used by kishi that Naruto WILL Surpass him, and imo he already did.
KingHashirama
Active member
Your whole argument was flawed, when you stated he was the second Uzumaki to have the Rinnegan..... and that Sage was from the Uzumaki CLAN.... all contradicting the manga.
EMS Madara, Naruto, Hashirama, Tobirama /Minato possibly, Killer B are just the few ones that could take him on.
EMS Madara, Naruto, Hashirama, Tobirama /Minato possibly, Killer B are just the few ones that could take him on.
um... I think that at worse sensory and sharingan are equal and thus the feats would cross over.
brotherin,
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, nagato's best path, then guys like V1 Ei and sandaime raikage could even pull that off with ease, and guys like V2 ei, kcm naruto and BM Naruto would blitz him with zero difficulty. Nagato even with his sensing has been legit blitzed on 2 occasions, and could barely react to V2 bee which is why preta path was activated so late.no im not, all of the ways that I say naruto beats nagato are with either attacks he can't absorb or forcing him to absorb a clone that entered SM on its own. I never ever said naruto beats nagato with a ninjutsu.
but what is that based on? NOTHING! not even the sharingan can keep track of V2 Ei and KCM Naruto's speed is a level beyond even his. We've seen nagato's reaction feats, they are not going to allow him to not get flash-blitzed by naruto, not when he can barely put up preta path against V2 Bee, not when his attention is going to be divided among lots of clones.
no its not, do you see bee's sword moving in that scan? Has anyone ever reacted to FTG? Tobi who's reaction feats crap all over bee's reaction feats couldn't react to FTG. Ei who has better reactions than Bee couldn't even perceive minato's movements. No, unless you can show that bee's sword moved there, it was already there from the start. So no, bee did not react to FTG, he already anticipated minato marking him and thus had his sword drawn already.
can you show me the scan of that because I honestly don't recall that happening.
yes they do, shadow clones only differ from the original in HP everything else is the same
when preta pulled him in, he had almost zero SM chakra left since he already used 2 FRS before that which was his limit back in the pain arc.
All of my claims are heavily supported by the manga. The chakra limit of the KCM clones are in fact manga facts.
Lol, ANY argument that is well supported by evidence is a good argument it doesn't matter if you think it's laughable or not. I attribute no feat or powers to KCM Naruto that he has not shown the ability to do in the manga.
5 seconds only applies for nagato's weakest shinra tenseis. And for KCM Naruto, 5 seconds is an eternity, FRS an attack that moves far slower than naruto does was able to cross the entire Chibaku tensei crater in just 1 second, that crater can fit an entire mountain range inside of it. with his speed, KCM Naruto will have no problems getting to nagato in that timeframe.
first time I agree with something you said
lol, nagato can't go in for the kill right after using chou shinra tensei, not only is naruto going to be blow far away but his paths take time to recover from that tech.
look nagato can make shinra tenseis bigger than the one he used against naruto and bee, if he makes them big enough they will damage the clones, however the ones he used in canon did not damage KCM Naruto and if it doesn't damage him then it doesn't damage his clones since they both have the same defenses, only lower HP.
brotherin, tell me one assertion that I've made that is extremely biased? You still have not even tried to defend the proposition that Nagato's shared vision and sensing will allow him to react to naruto's flash shunshin. And that point is moot anyway since we see nagato getting blitzed by attacks and barely being able to react to bee's V2 lariat in canon. That's the limits of his reaction ability, and since BM/KCM Naruto's shunshin is just far far quicker, they blitz him with that.
no worries its all good. And i'm again, I gotta say I don't think you can rightfully call me biased if I back up all of my claims with manga evidence and scans. The things that I am asserting Naruto can do are not at all beyond the abilities he has shown in the manga. I believe that you think I am biased only because the conclusion of my argument which is: KCM Naruto > Nagato is not common in narutobase. And that's just because KCM Naruto is just severely underrated on this forum, people actually forget that he can make clones that can pretty much take out any of the kages in the war arc.
LOL what manga are you reading boy?
kishi called him THE STRONGEST MAN IN AKATSUKI.
tobi called him the 3rd coming of sage of the 6 paths.
jiraiya called him the CHILD OF PROPHECY.
konan and all amagakure called him GOD.
raped HANZO and all his clan.
single handedly DESTROYED the strongest ninja village in narutoverse.
manhandled the 2 STRONGEST jinchuuriki in the series.
you called this NEVER hinted? check again if you're reading the "NARUTO manga by kishimoto" kiddo.
Invsblphntm
Active member
Invsblphntm
Active member
You are stupid fanboy that has nothing but a biase mind when it comes to nagato. st kill kabuto? Are you dense? Last time i checked he has healing abilities and he turn to liquid and shed his skin all over the place. He can't even touch him if he is oozing all over the place. Seeing how nagato is even a b*tch to sound genjustu that sound four ninja girl in his stomach will be more than enough to keep him done like a sitting target. Even his organic moving the earth justu will give life to him and stab him or open up and swallow his pathetic ass. Nagato can't even go through itachi, he defeated his soul rip path and asura eith one susanoo hand chop.
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It took kabuto easily handled susanoo and would of won if not for inzanami, and hokages 1-4 losing to nagato? Did you not hear what suigestu said? With them, they can take over the world. Hiruzen old age>>>>>>>the healthiest nagato. GTFO here. Pathetic fanboy
1. Everyone who uses the Rinnegan is automatically called the next sage.
2. He called him kid of prophecy for the reason he believed that Nagato, who was supposed to be Rikudo Sennin (but wasn't) would change the world to peace, finally he failed.
3. Amegakure is a weak village that was used as a battlefield of the nation. Thus Pain, who protected the village, represented himself as a god, for which occasion the villagers accepted this title.
4. Hanzo was indeed a strong Shinobi, but he shouldn't be the scale here.
5. It's impressive how Deva-Path crushed the village, but in the end it was just a single attack no one could prevent, it's like Deidara would have started his strongest bomb or Naruto would've used a huge tailed beast bomb at a point of the village to simply destroy a huge area.
6. Nagato just caught them off guard. While the Jinchuriki were taling to Itachi, he disappeared and started the combat with a Shinra Tensei from nowhere, they were surprised, and further more, Narutos Chakra was near to his limit, considering that a bunch of his Kagebunshin were sent out to the battlefield. It's debatable, how an alive Nagato would fight Naruto and Bee at their full strength and awareness that they actually go to fight.
I agree, Nagato is one of the strongest Charakters seen in Manga, but he is not winning against Hashirama, nor against Madara. I think it's also clear that Kabuto, Orochimaru and Obito would beat Nagato. Though Orochimaru couldn't control Hashirama properly, he could use Tobirama, Hiruzen and Minato perfectly as he is strengthened with Shodais cells. Naruto will most likely beat Nagato, too.
Finally we couldn't see Nagatos full potential.