[VS] Hashirama vs Third Raikage

[Black Wolf]

No, I am good. Thinking Gokages are bus length close to Madara sounds more lel to me. Mei was with the Gokages[

You must be registered for see links

]. Mei moved closer to hit Madara, where she is no longer with them[

You must be registered for see links

].

I'm glad you can tell me what I can already see on the manga scans.

What is the distance between Mei and the Tsunade healing the Onoki and Gaara, link [2]?

She ran ahead of them no more than 2 meters.

And what is the distance between Mei's Lava to Madara?

10 meters at best, probably less.

Now what is the distance between Madara and Tsunade healing Onoki and Gaara?

10 - 15 meters is generous, nothing close to 50.

Doesn't change the fact that Ay's speed is fast enough for forcing Madara to block. Unless you can prove he is faster then V1 my argument still stays.

He is fast enough to force Madara to block with Mei's help. Without Mei's help, he may have had a massive Katon flying towards him instead.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I'm glad you can tell me what I can already see on the manga scans.

Then you might want to revise what is 10 meters in comparison

You must be registered for see images

He is fast enough to force Madara to block with Mei's help. Without Mei's help, he may have had a massive Katon flying towards him instead.

He is also fast enough to match KCM Naruto speed, without help. @Bold: Proof that he can: instead of blocking his speed, that he can weild make hand signs in time and successfully land on him while Ay blitz?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Base Hashirama wins Mid dif

SM Hashirama stomps low diff

 

[Draegod]

1. I don't need to know where they originally started but once they clashed, they covered an equal distance from the scene of the clash.

2. They clashed in the middle, where the smoke in red is boxed (

You must be registered for see links

).

3. What prevented Naruto from sidestepping or at the very least properly guarding himself to prevent himself from getting sent flying? Him not being in speed motion doesn't mean he couldn't move at all. Actually it supports Naruto being slower since he wasn't able to move before Madara started to move. Although if Naruto is on guard, I agree he can react to Madara's speed but clearly Madara is the faster one, by what margin, impossible to tell.

4. Yet Naruto's reflexes weren't good enough to dodge Madara.

Madara was focussed on Mei's lava and had just

You must be registered for see links

, unable to dodge. If it wasn't for shadow clones,

You must be registered for see links

.


I need more translations to see what exactly Hashirama was implying, until then, this is all speculation on both of our parts. It's not just about breaking out of the mokuton binding, it is the fact that he managed to regain all the chakra which he had previously lost when Hashirama absorbed it.

Okay your last point is mostly hype, not feats related. I don't want to call you a hypocrite but you do ignore some of Tsunade's hype and give her losses when up against inferior shinobi just because of how you perceive a matchup.

1. Since you do not know where they started that debunked that entire response. Using speed you need to know the exact start and end to even gauge fairly. Other wise speculation is not valid, since I can speculate madara didn't go full speed or hishi didn't go full speed. All speculation with nothing behind it what so ever.

2. Again you do not know what was the "middle" since for a fact the kyubi was in motion. Who's to say madara didn't jump off the kyubi from a further distance then the kyubi caught up to the two? All speculation since we don't know the start of anything. Plus who is to say either weren't damaged off screen and could have affected there speed shown? They are beat up and the fight had been going on before that scan.

3. It is impossible to say madara was faster since naruto was not In motion. Period. Blocking means reaction, he simply wasn't fast enough to react and counter attack we can say that. But foot speed is literally not supported since naruto was not running period!

4. Madara has the ems!!!! No excuse! Sasuke was able to fight multiple opponents with ease, madara should have been able to dodge or counter attack if possible period! He even noted the raikage was fast and that wasnt even his fastest!!!!

You misinterpret reaction speed with foot speed, you have to at least have both in a toward blitzing motion to even mention full blitz speed.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Point taken but how exactly did Madara's speed increase dramatically? At this point he didn't acquire senjutsu until after he grabs Hashirama (

You must be registered for see links

). Even if he braced himself, I doubt he'd be able to outmanoeuvre Madara as easily as he did with the 3rd Raikage.

I'd also like to point out that Madara was making a hand sign, with Naruto's Sennin sensing allowing him to feel Madara kneading Chakra. So Naruto was probably expecting a Jutsu.

On top of that, Shunshin doesn't require a hand sign nor has a Shinobi ever used a hand sign to use it. Madara more than likely was charging a large amount of chakra into it that he had to use a hand sign to regulate, making that Shunshin faster than his norm by a large margin.

It would also explain why he never showed such speed at any other time.

---

Also like Draegod said. Just because Naruto blocked doesn't mean he couldn't have dodged. Sai was the only one that had a problem with that speed.​

​

 

[Penguin]

I'd also like to point out that Madara was making a hand sign, with Naruto's Sennin sensing allowing him to feel Madara kneading Chakra. So Naruto was probably expecting a Jutsu.

On top of that, Shunshin doesn't require a hand sign nor has a Shinobi ever used a hand sign to use it. Madara more than likely was charging a large amount of chakra into it that he had to use a hand sign to regulate, making that Shunshin faster than his norm by a large margin.

It would also explain why he never showed such speed at any other time.

---

Also like Draegod said. Just because Naruto blocked doesn't mean he couldn't have dodged. Sai was the only one that had a problem with that speed.​

​

What nonsense is this? He only had enough time to raise up his hands to defend. If he could have dodged, he would have. Naruto did have problems with Madara's speed, hence him only being able to raise his hands and nothing else. Hashirama knew Madara was going to attack, and so did Naruto. After Madara flashed the hand seal, everyone knew something was going to happen. Whether it was a ninjutsu, genjutsu, or taijutsu the Shinobi new Madara was going to do something. Naruto just couldn't dodge. I don't get what is so hard to see about it.

 

[DMT]

Obviously Hashirama would win.

Epic Avatar

 

[KidGamer65]

On top of that, Shunshin doesn't require a hand sign nor has a Shinobi ever used a hand sign to use it. Madara more than likely was charging a large amount of chakra into it that he had to use a hand sign to regulate, making that Shunshin faster than his norm by a large margin.

No. The hand sign was to immobilize Hashirama with his rods, via the chakra receivers. [

You must be registered for see links

] Right after the hand sign is made, Hashirama comments on how he can't move, and it shows "block block" to represent that. It wasn't for Shunshin.

 

[Icelerate]

1. Since you do not know where they started that debunked that entire response. Using speed you need to know the exact start and end to even gauge fairly. Other wise speculation is not valid, since I can speculate madara didn't go full speed or hishi didn't go full speed. All speculation with nothing behind it what so ever.

Do you even understand the scan I showed you? The centre where the red box is located is where they clashed. On that same scan, Madara and Hashirama are shown to travel the same distance away from this clash site. So both Madara and Hashirama covered the same distance of clashing.

2. Again you do not know what was the "middle" since for a fact the kyubi was in motion. Who's to say madara didn't jump off the kyubi from a further distance then the kyubi caught up to the two? All speculation since we don't know the start of anything. Plus who is to say either weren't damaged off screen and could have affected there speed shown? They are beat up and the fight had been going on before that scan.

I'm not talking about the Kyuubi. I'm talking about the point when Madara and Hashirama clashed, before Madara jumped on the Kyuubi. Before Madara jumped on the Kyuubi, there was no Kyuubi

You must be registered for see links

. The distance that the two travelled is equivalent in that particular scan.

3. It is impossible to say madara was faster since naruto was not In motion. Period. Blocking means reaction, he simply wasn't fast enough to react and counter attack we can say that. But foot speed is literally not supported since naruto was not running period!

Madara was able to accelerate to such speed in such a small amount of time. Why wasn't Naruto able to accelerate before Madara closed the distance? Exactly, Naruto didn't manage to react and counter attack yet he did with the 3rd Raikage.

4. Madara has the ems!!!! No excuse! Sasuke was able to fight multiple opponents with ease, madara should have been able to dodge or counter attack if possible period! He even noted the raikage was fast and that wasnt even his fastest!!!!

You misinterpret reaction speed with foot speed, you have to at least have both in a toward blitzing motion to even mention full blitz speed.

Doesn't matter if he has the EMS, he was in midair where he was an immobile target.

I'd also like to point out that Madara was making a hand sign, with Naruto's Sennin sensing allowing him to feel Madara kneading Chakra. So Naruto was probably expecting a Jutsu.

On top of that, Shunshin doesn't require a hand sign nor has a Shinobi ever used a hand sign to use it. Madara more than likely was charging a large amount of chakra into it that he had to use a hand sign to regulate, making that Shunshin faster than his norm by a large margin.

It would also explain why he never showed such speed at any other time.

---

Also like Draegod said. Just because Naruto blocked doesn't mean he couldn't have dodged. Sai was the only one that had a problem with that speed.​

​

Shunshin requires you to

You must be registered for see links

. SM Naruto is a sensor yet he did not see the blitz coming. I wonder what the next excuse is going to be.

 

[Conspirator.]

Hashirama wins low diff. Flower tree world puts the raikage to sleep, and in the instant when he's down(before anyone says "Onoki woke up"-it still took some time for him to wake up) he can use his wood dragon to suck up all his chakra, and then crush him with his mokujin technique.(which was strong enough to catch a bijuudama). Hashirama should have no problem reacting to the raikage's speed to since he managed to stalemate Madara in CQC, who is at least as fast as the raikage.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Hashirama obliterates this clown who lost to a Naruto clone.

 

[Black Wolf]

Then you might want to revise what is 10 meters in comparison

You must be registered for see images

Yeah, not seeing anything wrong with what I said. 10 meters, maybe 15 meters at best. Nowhere near 50 meters.

He is also fast enough to match KCM Naruto speed, without help.

KCM Naruto was not using his full speed; KCM Naruto's real speed was dodging V2 Raikage.

@Bold: Proof that he can: instead of blocking his speed, that he can weild make hand signs in time and successfully land on him while Ay blitz?

The burden of proof is on you; I suggested that as an alternative. You're the one that is claiming the Raikage is capable of blitzing Madara without the help of another Kage.

 

[Draegod]

Do you even understand the scan I showed you? The centre where the red box is located is where they clashed. On that same scan, Madara and Hashirama are shown to travel the same distance away from this clash site. So both Madara and Hashirama covered the same distance of clashing.

I'm not talking about the Kyuubi. I'm talking about the point when Madara and Hashirama clashed, before Madara jumped on the Kyuubi. Before Madara jumped on the Kyuubi, there was no Kyuubi

You must be registered for see links

. The distance that the two travelled is equivalent in that particular scan.

Madara was able to accelerate to such speed in such a small amount of time. Why wasn't Naruto able to accelerate before Madara closed the distance? Exactly, Naruto didn't manage to react and counter attack yet he did with the 3rd Raikage.

Doesn't matter if he has the EMS, he was in midair where he was an immobile target.

Shunshin requires you to

You must be registered for see links

. SM Naruto is a sensor yet he did not see the blitz coming. I wonder what the next excuse is going to be.

No you do not understand what I explained to you. Just because the camera angle made them look like they are perfectly in the middle (its a manga, and that's what they do, not waist space). You have no idea where they jumped at or where everything is at the time of clash since they are mid air. Just because the clash made them look even doesn't mean they left the original point of blitz to become equally in the center and clash point.

And again in a close angle you basically just stated the Kyubi came after the clash and out of no where... -____-... What makes you see what isn't shown???? Show me proof where everything in the scene was located since you clearly know everything that happened before that clash. My point is you are only speculating with literally nothing to go on, we only see the clash and the fight after the clash. That isn't a speed feat period!

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This Madara>>>>Alive madara! He is literally Hashirama and Madara in one body. For what ever reason he was able to sense and know Naruto and Sai's location perfectly! And this Speed of Blind Madara doesn't gauge Naruto's speed at all in the slightest! It only shows Naruto reaction to blocking Madara. And Naruto was clearly still in shock and plot was in play. Otherwise he would have thrown a Rasenshuriken right

You must be registered for see links

while Madara is wasting time talking. Naruto was clearly not trying to clash and was simply in shock that the dude was alive again.


What does matter is that he should have been able to at least grab and counter attack or some other method with the sharingan. Madara should have been keeping track of Aye here, no excuse since he was aware of aye the entire time. Are you saying all you have to do is make a simple diversion and another partner/clone/summon is enough to catch the best Sharingan user of all time off guard? With that being said that means lower sharingan users get F'd off when fighting multiple opponents since they get distracted over slow justus? Hmmmm.

 

[Icelerate]

No you do not understand what I explained to you. Just because the camera angle made them look like they are perfectly in the middle (its a manga, and that's what they do, not waist space). You have no idea where they jumped at or where everything is at the time of clash since they are mid air. Just because the clash made them look even doesn't mean they left the original point of blitz to become equally in the center and clash point.

I think you don't get what I'm trying to say so I'll give you an in depth visual analysis of that scan.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

After the clash happens, Madara and Hashirama jump away, each covering an equal distance from the scene of the clash right after the clash.

And again in a close angle you basically just stated the Kyubi came after the clash and out of no where... -____-... What makes you see what isn't shown???? Show me proof where everything in the scene was located since you clearly know everything that happened before that clash. My point is you are only speculating with literally nothing to go on, we only see the clash and the fight after the clash. That isn't a speed feat period!

Madara eventually jumps onto the Kyuubi while Hashirama ends up jumping onto wood. That is the end result after jumping away from the scene of the clash. How is this relevant when we have a scan showing Hashirama and Madara covering an equal distance right after clashing with each other?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This Madara>>>>Alive madara! He is literally Hashirama and Madara in one body. For what ever reason he was able to sense and know Naruto and Sai's location perfectly! And this Speed of Blind Madara doesn't gauge Naruto's speed at all in the slightest! It only shows Naruto reaction to blocking Madara. And Naruto was clearly still in shock and plot was in play. Otherwise he would have thrown a Rasenshuriken right

You must be registered for see links

while Madara is wasting time talking. Naruto was clearly not trying to clash and was simply in shock that the dude was alive again.

Where in the manga is it implied that having both Senju and Uchiha DNA in one body makes the person faster than without the DNA? If Naruto had opted to attack with a Rasenshuriken instead of listening to Madara, Madara would have opted to attack much sooner so your point is moot.

Speaking of Madara's blindness, what needs to be mentioned here is that against Hashirama, Madara had the tracking abilities of his EMS whereas against Naruto he was blind. Clearly Hashirama was up against a more formidable CQC fighter.

What does matter is that he should have been able to at least grab and counter attack or some other method with the sharingan. Madara should have been keeping track of Aye here, no excuse since he was aware of aye the entire time. Are you saying all you have to do is make a simple diversion and another partner/clone/summon is enough to catch the best Sharingan user of all time off guard? With that being said that means lower sharingan users get F'd off when fighting multiple opponents since they get distracted over slow justus? Hmmmm.

The sharingan wasn't what failed him. The problem was that Madara was in midair. When one is in mid air, they can't move away. All they can do is move their hands which Madara did just fine. The difference is, Naruto could move since he was on the ground and there were no other distractions like Mei's lava.

Simple diversions like the ones you stated can work wonders against the sharingan if used correctly. Too bad 3rd Raikage doesn't have any of that, nor does Ay. Since when was Mei's lava slow? Sasuke was in a hurry to escape the kage summit and hunt down Danzo yet Mei managed to block the way before he could escape (

You must be registered for see links

).

 

[Unorthodox]

what was all the debating for hashirama wins tsk tsk

 

[RicardoA]

Epic Avatar

Viktor for president <3

 

[Kagustuchi]

What nonsense is this? He only had enough time to raise up his hands to defend. If he could have dodged, he would have. Naruto did have problems with Madara's speed, hence him only being able to raise his hands and nothing else. Hashirama knew Madara was going to attack, and so did Naruto. After Madara flashed the hand seal, everyone knew something was going to happen. Whether it was a ninjutsu, genjutsu, or taijutsu the Shinobi new Madara was going to do something. Naruto just couldn't dodge. I don't get what is so hard to see about it.

By your logic, both Current Naruto and Sasuke take Madara's pum pum in speed since he's only blocked. Sakura's also faster than him by your logic, if he could have dodged her punch then he would have.

Same with Pain, guess since he was blocking Base Naruto's attacks then it must mean that Base Naruto is way faster than him.​

​

 

[blazekev90]

Lol y'all are doing the most right now.

icelerate, there are plenty of moments in the manga where opponents of different speeds clash and end in the same distance afterwards (Sasuke/Naruto, Deidara/Gai, etc). This does not determine their speed, they both are simply pushed back from the force of their collision, equally! It's ridiculous you're trying to excuse this as a speed feat.

Also, there are plenty of times when an opponent decided to block rather than dodge an attack. Ex) Madara decided to block Gai's attack, yet dodged fgt (Tobimaira). Is 7th Gate Gai faster than teleportation?

It depends on the situation, as Drae pointed out, Naruto planned in dodging Raikage's strike. Preparation be key here. You trying to measure that in relation to the speed difference between Madara and the Raikage is foolishness.

Edit: also, I'd like to add Kish never illustrates the speed difference in opponents when they're racing towards one another in a collision 1 vs 1. We clearly witness this in the fight between Obito and Minato. They met evenly mid way, yet we know Minato has faster foot speed regardless.