[VS] Hashirama vs Third Raikage

[Black Wolf]

Being in Edo form seems to hamper the stronger people more than the weaker people. People like the Kage, Itachi, and even Nagato weren't really "weaker" than their alive forms.

Tobirama, on the other hand, explicitly stated that him and Hashirama were, while "close" to full power, weren't actually at full power. Considering Madara is in Hashirama / Tobirama's ballpark of power, I'd wager he was similarly affected as well. Hashirama outright says "

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."

 

[Draegod]

Hashirama was portrayed to be the physical equal of Madara on various occasions. I'll give you the

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. In this scenario, Madara and Hashirama clashed evenly in taijutsu and covered an equal distance after their clash.

The same

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since all Naruto could do is put his arms in front of him to brace Madara's attack. SM Naruto was fast enough to

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and launch a counterattack.

That is not speed anything to go off of.

1. You have no idea where they started at before they "Clashed evenly", that is is nothing but fanfic at it's finest!
2. Plenty of ninjas "clashed evenly", does that mean they are equal with out starting distance to go behind aswell?
for ex:
....H--------------C-------M....
....H-----C----------------M....
....H-------------C--------M....

The "H" is hashirama, the "C" is where they clashed and the "M" is madara. based on what i drew it would imply hashi was faster, and madara was faster on another example. Basically since we don't know where they started at and if the clashed in the every middle (to say they're equal) we cant say anything on that scan period!


3. Madara and SM naruto did not "clash" for you to say "since he only blocked he is slower", that isn't even speed since naruto wasn't in speed motion.
4. SM Naruto used reflexes not speed or foot speed to beat the raikage. That is simply fanfic to think they used speed when nartuto literally stated i have to

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plus the fact kabuto wasn't trying to kill him.

But i'll use your logic:

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Madara was only able to block just like SM naruto was only able to block. Does that mean Madara is slower then V1 Aye???? The same V1 armor his father has btw. Hashirama does indeed have 3 great speed feats that you probably do not even know of. But this what you listed is not even speed, its reaction feats. And the clash has nothing to go off on unless you can show there starting distance.

 

[Icelerate]

Being in Edo form seems to hamper the stronger people more than the weaker people. People like the Kage, Itachi, and even Nagato weren't really "weaker" than their alive forms.

Tobirama, on the other hand, explicitly stated that him and Hashirama were, while "close" to full power, weren't actually at full power. Considering Madara is in Hashirama / Tobirama's ballpark of power, I'd wager he was similarly affected as well. Hashirama outright says "

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."

Prior to Hashirama saying that statement,

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. On the other hand, once he got revived, Madara had recovered from the wood dragon's effects and restored to full chakra.

Tobirama is talking about Orochimaru's usage of edo tensei, Kabuto's usage of edo tensei has never been implied to be weaker than the actual alive shinobi, correct me if I am wrong. Regardless, you contradict yourself when saying that the stronger shinobi like Hashirama and Tobirama were weaker due to being hampered by edo tensei more so than the weaker ones. Shinobis like 3rd Raikage, Muu, 2nd Mizukage and Itachi are in the same ballpark as Tobirama. Nagato is even above that. None of them were hampered by edo tensei because it was Kabuto who used it. Kabuto's mastered it to a higher level even more than Orochimaru.

Although I have found Madara's edo tensei speed feats to be lacklustre compared to the ones he had right after he was revived. I don't think this speculation can be used to describe the 3rd Raikage being slower than in his alive form though.

Regardless, even if Hashirama is slower than the 3rd Raikage, he still reacts to him with ease and can keep his distance through various means. He still wins no difficulty.

 

[Black Wolf]

Hashirama said his "past" powers, not just "his powers." This implies that Madara is doing something that he wasn't doing before but was able to do in the past. And he isn't going to wait half a chapter just to point out that Madara broke out of his Mokuton binding.

I'm not contradicting myself at all; it's your own interpretation that those shinobi are on par with them. Tobirama was able to make the likes of EMS Sasuke sweat bullets just by flexing his chakra.

I was never debaating whether or not Hashirama wins, just the implication that he is anything but marginally faster than 3rd Raikage.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Hashirama high dif.

Being blitz by the 3rd Raikage would be more lethal then his son. Since the comparison of V1= to his son[

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], Hashirama will have to be careful, due to Nukite options instead of punching to what his son demonstrates.

Nukite penetrates and juggernaut through any Mokuton construct Hashirama can offer.

Hashirama's only chance is to have him sleep follow by the premise everyone brought up to defeat him.

 

[Black Wolf]

3rd Raikage isn't capable of blitzing Hashirama to begin with. He might be faster, but if he is it is only marginally, and he will have building Mokuton structures thrown at him throughout, mitigating the speed issue (if there was one to begin with).

Hashirama's Mokujin was tangoing with Perfect Susano'o; I doubt that its durability is comparable to standard wood. Hashirama can also conjure up chakra-sapping and immobilizing constructs, like Mokuton Dragons.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

3rd Raikage isn't capable of blitzing Hashirama to begin with.

Raikage if fully capable of blitzing Hashirama. What Hashirama needs to do is fool him with Bushins and putting him to sleep ASAP.

 

[Black Wolf]

No, he isn't, especially not at 50 meters.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No, he isn't, especially not at 50 meters.

Hashirama's speed is compare to Madara, who got blitz by V1 Ay. 50 Meters is even more clear.

 

[Icelerate]

That is not speed anything to go off of.

1. You have no idea where they started at before they "Clashed evenly", that is is nothing but fanfic at it's finest!
2. Plenty of ninjas "clashed evenly", does that mean they are equal with out starting distance to go behind aswell?
for ex:
....H--------------C-------M....
....H-----C----------------M....
....H-------------C--------M....

The "H" is hashirama, the "C" is where they clashed and the "M" is madara. based on what i drew it would imply hashi was faster, and madara was faster on another example. Basically since we don't know where they started at and if the clashed in the every middle (to say they're equal) we cant say anything on that scan period!


3. Madara and SM naruto did not "clash" for you to say "since he only blocked he is slower", that isn't even speed since naruto wasn't in speed motion.
4. SM Naruto used reflexes not speed or foot speed to beat the raikage. That is simply fanfic to think they used speed when nartuto literally stated i have to

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plus the fact kabuto wasn't trying to kill him.

But i'll use your logic:

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Madara was only able to block just like SM naruto was only able to block. Does that mean Madara is slower then V1 Aye???? The same V1 armor his father has btw. Hashirama does indeed have 3 great speed feats that you probably do not even know of. But this what you listed is not even speed, its reaction feats. And the clash has nothing to go off on unless you can show there starting distance.

1. I don't need to know where they originally started but once they clashed, they covered an equal distance from the scene of the clash.

2. They clashed in the middle, where the smoke in red is boxed (

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).

3. What prevented Naruto from sidestepping or at the very least properly guarding himself to prevent himself from getting sent flying? Him not being in speed motion doesn't mean he couldn't move at all. Actually it supports Naruto being slower since he wasn't able to move before Madara started to move. Although if Naruto is on guard, I agree he can react to Madara's speed but clearly Madara is the faster one, by what margin, impossible to tell.

4. Yet Naruto's reflexes weren't good enough to dodge Madara.

Madara was focussed on Mei's lava and had just

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, unable to dodge. If it wasn't for shadow clones,

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.

Hashirama said his "past" powers, not just "his powers." This implies that Madara is doing something that he wasn't doing before but was able to do in the past. And he isn't going to wait half a chapter just to point out that Madara broke out of his Mokuton binding.

I'm not contradicting myself at all; it's your own interpretation that those shinobi are on par with them. Tobirama was able to make the likes of EMS Sasuke sweat bullets just by flexing his chakra.

I was never debaating whether or not Hashirama wins, just the implication that he is anything but marginally faster than 3rd Raikage.

I need more translations to see what exactly Hashirama was implying, until then, this is all speculation on both of our parts. It's not just about breaking out of the mokuton binding, it is the fact that he managed to regain all the chakra which he had previously lost when Hashirama absorbed it.

Okay your last point is mostly hype, not feats related. I don't want to call you a hypocrite but you do ignore some of Tsunade's hype and give her losses when up against inferior shinobi just because of how you perceive a matchup.

 

[Black Wolf]

Hashirama's speed is compare to Madara, who got blitz by V1 Ay. 50 Meters is even more clear.

Madara never got "blitzed" by V1 Raikage at 50 meters;

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.

Madara was distracted by

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, and he still managed to

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.

So no, 3rd Raikage isn't blitzing at 50 meters.

I need more translations to see what exactly Hashirama was implying, until then, this is all speculation on both of our parts.

A translator on Narutoforums:

Katon; Haijin-gakure (ash dust-hide) no jutsu
Naruto: agh!
Naruto: Hott!
Sasuke!?
Hash in his mind: Madara has regained his former might
Hash in his mind: God...What he aims forthe next are_____
Mob: Ugh!

Okay your last point is mostly hype, not feats related. I don't want to call you a hypocrite but you do ignore some of Tsunade's hype and give her losses when up against inferior shinobi just because of how you perceive a matchup.

Making the room crack and someone on EMS Sasuke's level sweat bullets isn't hype; it is a feat showing us how powerful Tobirama's chakra is.

 

[Icelerate]

Madara never got "blitzed" by V1 Raikage at 50 meters;

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.

Madara was distracted by

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, and he still managed to

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.

So no, 3rd Raikage isn't blitzing at 50 meters.

Don't you mean Mei's lava apparition technique?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Madara never got "blitzed" by V1 Raikage at 50 meters;

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.

Doesn't look 10 meters at all.

Madara was distracted by

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, and he still managed to

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.

It didnt matter as Madara still acknowledge his body flicker and Ay's statement saying he is capable of defending himself with his speed[

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]

So no, 3rd Raikage isn't blitzing at 50 meters.

Um yes. Even 4th Raikage has shown to blitz KCM Naruto a bit more then 50 meters[

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>

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]

 

[Black Wolf]

Do you know what 50 meters is? 50 meters is something like 160 - 170 feet (rough estimation) if you are using American measurements. The starting distance in that scan isn't anywhere close to even 100 feet. Even 30 - 40 feet is being generous.

Madara acknowledging his body flicker does not change the fact that it was a team effort that forced Madara into that position, and Madara still reacted and blocked accordingly. It isn't a blitz if the other person manages to defend / block.

KCM Naruto wasn't using his full speed, so I have no idea why you're using that scan to his detriment.

 

[naruto7861]

Hashirama low diff

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Do you know what 50 meters is? 50 meters is something like 160 - 170 feet (rough estimation) if you are using American measurements. The starting distance in that scan isn't anywhere close to even 100 feet. Even 30 - 40 feet is being generous.

I know what 50 meters is. I have done 50 meter dash in under 4-5 secs. Madara would not be scaled as a midget if it was ten meters. ten meters is like a length of a bus, lel.

Madara acknowledging his body flicker does not change the fact that it was a team effort that forced Madara into that position, and Madara still reacted and blocked accordingly. It isn't a blitz if the other person manages to defend / block.

That doesn't change the fact the Raikage is faster then Madara. It isn't a blitz: What I explained that the same speed can be applied to the 3rd, who's uses Nukite then punches, which is much deadlier then attempting to block a punch.

KCM Naruto wasn't using his full speed, so I have no idea why you're using that scan to his detriment.

To apply the speed argument. KCM nor Ay were at full speed even then they are still faster and fast enough to have Madara block/ defend then to dodge their attack.

 

[Penguin]

Hashirama still outran a PS, had enough time to summon the Rashomon as he ran from the Bijuudama which crossed an ocean in seconds, was on par with Madara in speed who laughably roflblitzed SM Naruto. The whole "he wasn't ready" deal is kinda bull shit considering Madara wasn't ready for a Hiraishingiri to the back mid gloating, yet the SM gave him some sort of danger sensing. Naruto simply wasn't fast enough to dodge Madara, yet he dodged the Raikage.

I know what 50 meters is. I have done 50 meter dash in under 4-5 secs. Madara would not be scaled as a midget if it was ten meters. ten meters is like a length of a bus, lel.



That doesn't change the fact the Raikage is faster then Madara. It isn't a blitz: What I explained that the same speed can be applied to the 3rd, who's uses Nukite then punches, which is much deadlier then attempting to block a punch.



To apply the speed argument. KCM nor Ay were at full speed even then they are still faster and fast enough to have Madara block/ defend then to dodge their attack.

Most NFL players to a 36.5 meter dash in roughly 4.4-4.8 seconds. You are fast. o-o

 

[Black Wolf]

I know what 50 meters is. I have done 50 meter dash in under 4-5 secs. Madara would not be scaled as a midget if it was ten meters. ten meters is like a length of a bus, lel.

You should "lel" at yourself if you think the distance in that scan is 50 meters. Look at the next page where Mei shoots lava at him. That isn't anywhere near 50 meters.

That doesn't change the fact the Raikage is faster then Madara. It isn't a blitz: What I explained that the same speed can be applied to the 3rd, who's uses Nukite then punches, which is much deadlier then attempting to block a punch.

And as I said, the Raikage had the benefit of another Kage distracting Madara. That isn't the case here, and with a larger starting distance, Hashirama has more than enough time to conjure up Mokuton constructs between him and the Raikage.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

You should "lel" at yourself if you think the distance in that scan is 50 meters. Look at the next page where Mei shoots lava at him. That isn't anywhere near 50 meters.

No, I am good. Thinking Gokages are bus length close to Madara sounds more lel to me. Mei was with the Gokages[

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]. Mei moved closer to hit Madara, where she is no longer with them[

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]. So going by your measurements:

What is the distance between Mei and the Tsunade healing the Onoki and Gaara, link [2]? And what is the distance between Mei's Lava to Madara? Now what is the distance between Madara and Tsunade healing Onoki and Gaara?

And as I said, the Raikage had the benefit of another Kage distracting Madara. That isn't the case here, and with a larger starting distance, Hashirama has more than enough time to conjure up Mokuton constructs between him and the Raikage.

Doesn't change the fact that Ay's speed is fast enough for forcing Madara to block. Unless you can prove he is faster then V1 my argument still stays.

Hashirama still outran a PS, had enough time to summon the Rashomon as he ran from the Bijuudama which crossed an ocean in seconds, was on par with Madara in speed who laughably roflblitzed SM Naruto. The whole "he wasn't ready" deal is kinda bull shit considering Madara wasn't ready for a Hiraishingiri to the back mid gloating, yet the SM gave him some sort of danger sensing. Naruto simply wasn't fast enough to dodge Madara, yet he dodged the Raikage.

Naruto was in motion that helped him dodged Raikage. Naruto was motionless against Madara. The same logic can apply to Edo Madara vs Raikage's situation

Most NFL players to a 36.5 meter dash in roughly 4.4-4.8 seconds. You are fast. o-o

I havent ran in a while but I rememeber my speed is around 5 or 5. something. I'm was exaggerating on the 4 though U_U

 

[RicardoA]

Obviously Hashirama would win.