so because mei has two KGS, she has fire, water, wind and earth? seems so.
Yes
either killing him before he can as most MS techs dont need seals, or burning it to a crisp with great dragon fire
Pages of Goryuuka's ability to burn through a forest please, it's a small fireball and it's not doing shit to a forest as big as the meteor
no. unless hes as fast as the raikage, or as durable as gaara and hachibi, he will just burn and burn, too in pain to think of countering it. set yourself on fire and see how long it takes you to find some water.
Except how A cut his arm from the damage and wasn't fazed by it. Hashirama can like the other dude said just push it off his body with Mokuton. Don't know how being "fast" prevent Amaterasu from hurting A but alright
just because its formed from water release doesnt make it water. and this is amat. nothign puts it out or slows it down
I never said because it was formed from water release makes it water? I said Mokuton isn't regular wood, and you seriously believe Amaterasyu will burn through a Mokuton forest the size of the
meteor when it couldn't even burn through a regular forest and Susano'o is like a pixel compared to the meteor to scale?
it does if the user wants it to. particularly sasuke who can manipulate it freely
Yeah, if it spreads onto his Mokuton Hashiramqa simply directs it onto Sasuke and Itachi, simple/
so they all had enton, tsukiyomi and spiritual weapons? not to mention kirin, chidori spear, water release, and the multitude of other shit the bros can do
Uhh, I wasn't saying that for that fact, I was saying it about the whole "hurr durr genjutsu before the battle begins" stuff. I think he knows how to avoid genjutsu from the uchiha let alone an EMS user or he'd kind of be dead
that was one arrow. what will he do vs a barrage of chidori spear, AND amaterasu shurikens, AND itachis yagatas, AND water dragon bullet, AND extending totsuka sword?
Well, considering none of that can get all the way through the Mokuton forest then it won't really do anything
their susano fists would just break the trees apart. sasuke uses chidori infused sword to break the trees.
Susano'o has
never reached inside of itself. Otherwise it's intangible and attacks would just go through it. Scans of Susano'o reaching inside itself to stop Itachi or Sasuke from being impaled from below?
useless against great dragon fire, the force of which blows the pollen away
So Sasuke spams it, wastes his chakra while Hashirama repeats Madara. "You worry too much about that flower...I have so umch other hax shit if you have trouble and have to focus on killing the flowers you're gonna have a bad time"
Besides, Goryuuka smashes through that stuff and it has never ever burned things like that, neither has any katon tech
ever used in the manga. It took Onoki's jinton to spin around to literally destroy all the flowers in the area, that shit's not going to fly when itachi or Sasuke have no techniques like that.
he wont be trapped is my point
no he wont. MS is near instant. making enough trees also takes time and chakra
Near instant, read my last post about pressure...closing, opening eyes...and Hashirama fighting a war against Uchiha, etc etc etc
Time and chakra. Hashirama has plenty of all of that, if by "time" you mean "all he has to do is clap his hands together" and by chakra you mean "He's a ****ing senju and the strongest shinobi to ever live bar the Rikudou Sage and maybe Prime Hiruzen, why would he run out of chakra making a forest or flower world"
which proceeds to catch fire and burn to a crisp
Burning
a Mokuton forest to a crisp? Please, sir please, show me pages where Amaterasu has
ever been used to the ridiculous level to burn something as big as the meteor and thick as the mokuton when it didn't even burn through Karin's clothes, samurai armor and a regular forest. Let alone chakra enhanced mokuton forest by one of the strongest shinobi in Naruto existence.
no he cant. hell naruto wikia says only madara and naruto can make more than one clone and possibly hiruzen
I don't know who you were replying to with that and I'm not even debating on behalf of Mokuton clones(although they'd be useful)but yeah, anyone can make more than 1 clone, but if it's a Kage Bunshin it'd just half your chakra every time so
unless you're somoene like naruto it'd probably do you little good.
no one can do that
narutos clones beg to differ
Naruto's clones aren't Mokuton bunshin
what if they decide to hold their breath? his whole strategy is ****ed. bros reactivate susano and gg with amaterasu barrage on his face followed up with susano arrow.
Hold your breath? They still have to destroy the flowers which is practically impossible in their case, Hashirama will just make more and they'll crap their pants after having worked so hard to destroy all the flowers, only to be brought with more. So..they suffocate or get knocked unconscious by the flowers(and you know how it goes from there)
no. you need someone elses chakra to do that
Well Kakashi's clone was placed under a genjutsu by Itachi and the real one was free to move.
no it wont. susano is too strrong
scans of kurama being restrained for more than a minute
Time is impossible to tell on panel, although Yamato's wood did restrain KN4 for a bit, itachi and Sasuke in no way have more physical power than KN4 so even assuming one of the greatest shinobi to ever live's mokuton is weaker than a Jonin's mokuton by all means, they still shouldn't be able to break out.
Also this "scans of <extremely specific thing that never happened on panel and we can use common sense to know is true> or else it cant happen" is pretty bullshit logic, I'm going to need panels of Goryuuka or any katon or Amaterasu burning a forest to a crisp then please
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i said tobiramas edo tensei is not better than kabutos just because he was the creator. hashirama created mokuton but it doesnt mean hes automatically its greatest user. in the hands of a much stronger shinobi working in tandem with ems and rinnegan, fused with hashirama, its great. but on a bigger scale than hashirama could ever be because of that.
Oh alright, I was going to think for a second there you were going to say "Tobirama is an ET, and Edo Tensei makes you invulnerable so ET Tobirama is stronger than original Tobirama" lol
In this case, I'm using Kabuto and Madara's own statements here. Kabuto simply put DNA of Hashirama into Madara so there's no way for his to be more perfected like Edo Tensei. He only has the required cells to do the mokuton of Hashirama, but the point is, both Madara and Kabuto were hyping Hashirama to the highest degree. If Hashirama's level of Mokuton was lower than what Madara's doing currently Kabuto wouldn't be hyping Hashirama and saying the things he's saying in the pages I linked.
because people think hashirama's garbage feats vs hiruzen is enough to get by on evidence that hashirama can "solo anyone".
I'm not even using that, by powerscaling Hiruzen and the fight between them would be to a much higher degree, that was wayyy back in Part 1. It's not 'on panel feats' that should be used in these fights involving characters like Hashirama otherwise Hashirama would probably lose to most genin characters going by his Part 1 scans.
rikudo sage has an on panel feat
Of talking to the 10 baby bijuu, what about battle feats, guy might have not even had any jutsu and talking out of his ass lol, point is I'm just emphasizing "you can't assume" and why Hashirama is so hax, because we're supopsed to be allowed to accept the kinds of things or else putting Hashi in matches is pointless and retarded.
scans of him taking a bijuudama please
Give me <scan of something we know obviously happened but has never been shown on panel> or else it didnt happen
and you are taking it as fact even though its tobis memory and he wasnt there, but kurama isnt being restrained. hashirama has his foot but in a moment kuramas momentum would break that shit. you cant fight kurama unless you are an uzumaki or have a unique ability to control him with hokage style 60 year old technique or whatever the hell yamato used.
So how do you expect Hashirama to have fought the battle? They were both bloody all over it's not like the fight had just started. It's not like 2 seconds into the fight Kurama was sealed away(scan of him being sealed away 2 seconds in the fight or it didnt happen lol), and Hashirama in that panel was holding him back and holding his own, that says much much more for characters like Itachi or Sasuke or any other shinobi. Seriously, Kurama just waves his paw and boom you're dead. It wouldn't be so hyped that Hashirama beat EMS Madara+Kurama in the manga if he simply never fought Kurama, besides there's your on panel link of him doing it right there.
that makes no sense. madara is not just composed of hashiramas cells. he has his own enourmous power to draw from and fuel the technique and the fact hes immortal and can do whatever he wants without worrying about dying from chakra drain
As seen in the Hashirama vs Kurama panel and how Kabuto says how incredible Hashirama's techniques from when he was alive were, it's not like he can make 1 fores tand dies from chakra drain either. Also, full Kurama's head was basically as big as Gamabunta, he's in 50% mode this entire time and the Kurama Hashirama fought is 2x as strong as the Kurama we've seen, pretty much ever. Including the one who fought Naruto
wrong. powerful genjutsu is still not enough to fool an EMS user. only sound works because itachi cant block his hearing and the technique paralyses him. darkness does nothing but remove vision. but sharingan sees chakra. hiruzen cant so he was unable to be unhindered by it.
It doesn't "remove vision" it puts you inside a pitch black 'virtual reality', similar to Tayuya's which as you said Uchiha are still affected, just because you have the sharingan tells you that you're in a genjutsu and you can be good at breaking it. It's fine but it doesn't matter if me or you could break the genjutsu and it was that weak, the Uchiha would still be caught by it they'd just have to break out of it.
from manga showings, no she is not. the best hope she has of victory is sleep bombs. and shika throws that shit away form him with shadows.
He couldn't hold back Hidan with his shadows and when he did he held him for basically a few seconds at a time, 2 minutes into the fight of
trying to capture Hidan he was creating a river of sweat. He's not holding back Sakura with his shadows and even if he does he can't do crap for long with her brute strength, one touch from her and he's dead, and she can heal from anything Shika throws at her.
same goes for finger genjutsu since hashirama has no intel on that
Implying 'one of the greatest shinobi to exist' will have trouble breaking out of a genjutsu that you can freely move inside. It was weak as to where the basic "partner transfers you chakra" method easily broke it, and Naruto who's as bad as genjutsu as he is was on the verge of breaking it by charging his chakra.
that was not the middle of the fight. hashirama was yet uninjured for the most part. and you have no way of knowing if it was
They were both all bloody as I said, and since you say it's the "beginning of the fight", gee, Hashirama sure summoned up quite a lot of wood(lol wood) so fast so he won't have trouble doing it in this fight.
they have the greatest mastery over sharingan due to reading the tablet and building upon the previous generations so yes. sasuke even more so with the first EMS since madara. if you remember tobi did it with regular sharingan. and dont tell me tobi 3 tomoe > sasuke ems.
3 tomoe Tobi can't be compared to EMS Sasuke, when has either Itachi or Sasuke ever displayed the skill to put control over Kurama? And anyway, you think that Itachi or Sasuke without that ability could do crap against Kurama before getting obliterated?
the manga has stated over and over hashirama can uniquely control them to do his bidding.
No, the Contract Seal. Frees the Kurama from Madara's control. He has Mokuton to 'control to do bidding', I said contract seal which is what Minato used against Tobi. It didn't give him a special power to control Kurama.
hype is a legend. especially for the sage who might not even have existed. maybe he was just some guy who popped up and befriended/named the bijuus after the real sage split up juubi. did juubi even exist? did a bunch of allies help him split juubi instead of doing it himself? we dont know these things. with konohamaru we know he can take out a pain path, who had the same eyes the sage did
Lol'd, but yeah it'd be cool if Kono could take out the Rikudou Sage, he's gonna end up a really developed character by the end of the manga hopefully and etc so it'd really help with his development if he could kill him right now with 1 rasengan that barely puts craters in the wall against a Rinnegan user with every technique and made the moon. But yeah.
how do you know? since your so adamant at accepting any and all hype...'
You're implying that Mito
did do that? Then prove it, it's not up to me to make the claims in which I didn't make
although. If Mito did jump in the middle of the fight against Madara and Hashirama, their love triangle would prevent shit like that from happening and, they'd basically get obliterated from the second she jumped in and Mito would have died, unless you know you can show some on-screen stuff of where it was said Mito was in that battle of VotE or where Mito had the power for any of that.
talking happens all the time in big high speed fights. this is naruto not real life
I'm aware, but in a battle against EMS Madara and Kurama, Madara is going to let him stop, calmly tell Kurama that he's too powerful to be let free in the world so he's going to be sealed? I find this pretty ridiculous, but judging from Hashirama's condition at that point something tells me it wasn't in the beginning of the fight or anywhere near that, unless, you're willing to contradict yourself again and admit Hashirama was fighting Kurama and sustained all those injuries with him still out on the field.
if they were full health then why do they still have scratches? if it was 2 seconds how come kishi skipped away from the fight for 10 chapters before she was finished?
Er.. what? Onoki just took the meteor head on and him and Gaara had fought the entire war thus far against Nidaim Mizukage, Muu, Yondaimed Kazekage, etc. Tsunade put her hands against them and they went to full health, it's the chapter the 5 kages appeared or the chapter after, Kishi didn't do any skipping. I'll get the panel if I have time
self healing. he thought hashirama was better because hed never heard of byakugo, the better more advanced version of hashiramas jutsu
Exactly what I'm saying, his healing is that good already by itself, implying he even needs it in the first place.
my god you act like he can fill the battlefield with trees instantly in 1 panel. when he never did this.
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So we're using part 1 feats again.
no he didnt. your sole scan shows him holding onto kuramas ankle while the thing is still rip roaring towards him, not stopping
Kurama's "leg*" is comparable to the huge summons in the series, and implying that Itachi or Sasuke have anywhere near that power. Kurama isn't "ripping towards" him either, Hashirama's clearly holding his own. If you want, I'll put the pic in MS paint and draw big red circles so you can't deny what's legit on-panel.
according to madara, the kages worried too much about it and it only affected them after he knocked them down into it. susano will block the fumes. we know this because danzos wind didnt get through it so air cant go through it.
No, Ok, he put the flowers everywhere, the kages were like "asdhjakhfka we can't breathe that in we'll go unconscious" then Madara, after going in to use another attack said "You worry too much about the flowers..." as in, like I said before, "If you think this low level technique is too much for you there's no way you're winning", AKA being arrogant and overconfident as usual
he hasnt shown those elements. like mei hasnt shown wind water fire and earth
She hasn't shown them but it's obvious she has them. I'm not debating or claiming that Hashirama will use either of the 2 elements, since all elements have unique jutsu and he could have any of them. But he still has water and earth, I don't know what techs he has that
are water/earth but he has them lol.
pollen isnt oxygen. he can breath after he destroys flower tree world by setting the flowers on fire or smashes it apart with his giant sword. a normal human holds their breath for 2 minutes.
Too many flowers to do that, katon burning down a forest scan please and Totsuka having AoE and thickness like Onoki's jinton please.
Bullshit, I know shinobi can hold their breath wayy longer so I don't expect them to suffocate instantly but this is no true lol, nobody I know can hold their breath longer than 60 seconds or 1:10 at best. Maybe you got uber hax trained lungs but not me that's for sure
The kages all got unconscious, Onoki used his 'will of stone'(lol) to get the strength to stand up, they all breathed it, you have no choice to breathe and you claim Itachi will just effortlessly destroy all the flowers, how will the guy even have knowledge of the pollen before it's too late? It's too small to even see in the air it's just like C4 except it's not so easily countered or detected as it's not chakra. He won't even know to breathe and Susano'o doesn't defend against air particles otherwise Itachi again wouldn't be able to breathe inside it.
yes they do. since you like hype, agree with madara when he says the kages worried too much about it.
I already explained what Madara meant, and it's obvious what he meant. Ok that's cool, it's nowhere near as hax as Hashirama's 'other techniques' so why are you trying to use this
against Hashirama? And why would you even use this at all, if Itachi and Sasuke have no visible(sharingan pun) coutner for it then who cares if the kages "worry too much about it"?
if you can create form from a beast and give it life, then he should be able to create form from sakura's chakra and expand that thing by giving it life. the equivalent of creating a poison frog inside someones brain. creating form from nothing and giving it life is the most powerful technique. if he made living bijuus and gave chakra consciousness and even names, whats to stop him creating form from living chakra?
"should be able to" that's the point, if we're using on panel evidence only that's 100% purely speculation, you have pretty much no idea how the technique works and you're trying to act like you know what the technique does and this is how it works fact. Not true, although I agree Rikudou Sage effortlessly snaps his fingers and Sakura and Konohamaru and 200 cities instantly explode, by your logic we can't use any of that hype whatsoever, even you're using it.
Otherwise, on panel feat of RS creating life in the way you speculate it working
which is exactly my point and why no one uses the sage in fights. we dont know 99% of what he can do. weve only heard about his legend. ask a historian about a guy who lived a thousand years ago and there wouldnt be that much they could tell you thats reliable fact
Since I started posting instead of lurking like 3 days ago I've seen at least 5 RS threads and like 5 Hashirama threads, people use them in fights I'm sure they don't expect the people posting to say "hurr, Hashirama only has scans from part 1 and anything else is speculation and since hype is stupid he loses by default" or "hurr RS might not even exist we dont even have scans of him on panel so he loses by default"
the word all = encompassing not 1 or 2 or 3. but just that. all.
I'm extremely sorry for committing sacrilege against the great USSJ Future Trunks word of law of semantics, I'll remember to be extremely dead-on about what I mean and never accidentally say the word 'all' when I obviously meant barring-KG. So I meant, all jutsu 'past or present' since it makes Owarij happy, and barring KG of course.
in order to make mokuton: one hand seal, focus chakra to give life to the ground, roots begin to sprout out and form into trees, trees begin to move around.
Except where each time they burst from the ground extremely fast, and wyhen Hashirama sees the beforehand preparation of Itachi it's avoidable from that point, all he has to do is look away. There's not much Itachi can do on the other hand
only summoning techniques create fully formed things instantly.
Nothing is "instant" so I don't even know where I said that but again, pointless nit-picking and semantics when it's obvious what I meant.
Itachi does all the things I listed
but, Hashirama can simply look away while all that's happening, again Itachi can't do much
no you dont. for all hashirama knows, he really is just bleeding from his eye. nagato SENSED pressure due to being an uzumaki attuned to chakra very well
>fights EMS Madara and war against Uchiha
>won't know what to do when he sees a sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan and/or blood from eye
>mfw
sharingan sees chakra and sees through all genjutsu. darkness cannot blind an uchiha.
he was about to die, who cares?
Err, again how is this relevant? So what if he was about to die, he had to get rid of the genjutsu to win. The fact Hiruzen God of Shinobi didn't even attempt to break it but
tried to land a hit because it was the "only way to escape the genjutsu" from his position says something.
thats not my logic at all and you know it. mokutons never killed ANYONE. not even an old ass man.
Lol are you just trolling when you say this, Amaterasu or Goryuuka has never burned down a forest either nor killed anyone.
You're right about that, Hashirama>Madara so it's all good
no there isnt. since this is the start of the fight, and hashirama must start with roots and gradually get to more, he wont have time before he gets murdered
Yeah, I guess in the middle of a battlefield that a huge meteor just destroyed everything, and spawned countless roots from nowhere in an instant that took 1000 Chou Odama Rasengan to destroy. I wonder where those came from.
if you know your in a genjutsu you can better break it. you can still hear smell and touch etc. and sharingan precog wont vanish jsut because normal sight is gone
Yeah I know this, so given those conditions even if it takes half a second to break it's much more time for Hashirama to jump on the chance. Even though God of Shinobi having trouble with it means Itachi can't effortlessly break it either, it's cool I'll give him this one since he can't win anyway
you want trees to burst through the best defence in narutoverse?
No, I never said that, but it can totally bypass it by striking frmo the ground where Susano'o doesn't defend against
hashiramas not gaara. and gaara happened to go under it because he knew he could with onokis jutsu.
Ok let me guess, you're going to want panels where Hashirama's mokuton came out from under the ground.
they didnt lose to that technique. they lost to that technique AND susano AND madaras edo immortality/unlimited chakra
I'm aware, although since Onoki was there to save them and it was 5 kages on a 5 man team, all of them breathed it and went unconscious except Onoki. And he also happened to have Jinton which was perfect for destroying the flowers. Itachi and Sasuke's method is, assuming they have
any knowledge of Flower World whatsoever and don't breathe it from the start: ?
kabuto also says thats what everyone thinks. it was his OPINION and the OPINION of other ninjas. his own opinion is that hes invincible meaning he can defeat anyone he wishes. he had no idea of the existence of bm naruto, gaara (at full power), tobi when using gedo mazo and rinnegan etc
This is completely irrelevant, and besides Hashirama fought 100% Kurama, KM Naruto is 50% Kurama transformed. Kabuto knowing about Naruto is irrelevant, Gaara gets crapped on by Madara/Hashirama and Naruto/Tobi both destroy Itachi/Sasuke so it doesn't matter even if those guys
didn't pale in comparison to Hashirama.
exploited once by someone whod fought susano before and found a small weak spot with help
"small weak spot" the entire ground under it isn't affected. Hashirama surrounds it with Mokuton, what do you think happens. Assuming they don't all die because they have no knowledge of Flower World.
*dance* i finally get backup
Thank you good sir
>outright stating you totally need backup
