Hashirama v Hurizen

[shelke]

Well duh of course they don't, We've only seenhold hirzuen back in part one, who's stamina ran low after a couple of Jutsu's and 2 clones.

According to Oro and Enma that hiruzen that fought Oro was was nothing compared to his normal self. He must of had some extremely powerful jutsu's to even Gain the title of god of shinobi.
The title isn't giving out to any kage who have great strength.

If a Weak and old Hiruzen is able to hold the hokage title and be hailed as the strongest of the 5 current kages, He must be something extremely special in his prime.

How special? Does his prime make his abilities more powerful? Do you have some proof for this? Other than human-stats shift, his abilities would remain the same. I'm comparing them - imagining a prime scenario - with Hashirama's prime. There is no way in hell he has anything on his that beats Hashirama's mokuton forest alone, let alone wood dragon or flower techniques.

 

[Exaar]

Pretty much all assumptions coming from you about how strong he was.

Sorry but there is no way in hell I'm putting him on Madara and Hashirama's level. My opinion.

Nothing i said in that post is an assumption.

He was considerably weaker in his old age, As stated in the manga by Oro and Enma.

He his stamina has gotten worse, as stated by an anbu watching the fight.

He was physically weaker, stated by hiruzen when he said he couldn't believe how heavy enma felt in pole form.

Getting slower is age is just natural.

 

[Bijuu13]

*Scrolls through thread*

Bottom line is Hiruzen has no legit counter for anything involving Hashirama currently .. Whether its feats, hype, etc.

I believe Hashirama > Hiruzen any day, but i also have the patience to see what both do in the manga.
And because Hiruzen is now Edo, all the people supporting the third will have NO excuses when it comes to stamina, weakness, or a "prime" state

 

[Exaar]

How special? Does his prime make his abilities more powerful? Do you have some proof for this? Other than human-stats shift, his abilities would remain the same. I'm comparing them - imagining a prime scenario - with Hashirama's prime. There is no way in hell he has anything on his that beats Hashirama's mokuton forest alone, let alone wood dragon or flower techniques.

special enough to Gain the "god of shinobi" title after hashirama had died.

The databooks also hint that if hiruzen was 10 years younger (I.E 59) that fight between Oro and hiruzen could of ended differently. Now thats only 10 years and still past his prime.

 

[Smd]

hiruzen is the weakest hokage ever.

his fans need to get their heads exam.

 

[Fanta]

Nothing i said in that post is an assumption.

He was considerably weaker in his old age, As stated in the manga by Oro and Enma.

He his stamina has gotten worse, as stated by an anbu watching the fight.

He was physically weaker, stated by hiruzen when he said he couldn't believe how heavy enma felt in pole form.

Getting slower is age is just natural.

Your assuming that he is on Hashirama's level.. when in reality, Hiruzen doesn't have the jutsu to keep up with him.

 

[shelke]

special enough to Gain the "god of shinobi" title after hashirama had died.

The databooks also hint that if hiruzen was 10 years younger (I.E 59) that fight between Oro and hiruzen could of ended differently. Now thats only 10 years and still past his prime.

So what? That still doesn't prove how Hizuren's feats compare to Hashirama's. I mean come on. Mokuton forest?

 

[Exaar]

Your assuming that he is on Hashirama's level.. when in reality, Hiruzen doesn't have the jutsu to keep up with him.

Your just assuming he isn't on hashirama's level and that he doesn't have a jutsu to keep up with him.

So what? That still doesn't prove how Hizuren's feats compare to Hashirama's. I mean come on. Mokuton forest?

Well of course feat wise hiruzen is weaker, We've seen nothing of prime hiruzen nor his full arsenal of jutsu's.

It's like me saying Rock Lee > white fang because he has no feats to back up his hype.

 

[Bijuu13]

Your just assuming he isn't on hashirama's level and that he doesn't have a jutsu to keep up with him.



Well of course feat wise hiruzen is weaker, We've seen nothing of prime hiruzen nor his full arsenal of jutsu's.

It's like me saying Rock Lee > white fang because he has no feats to back up his hype.

@ Bolded those arent assumptions, weve seen a little of what they can do . And clearly Hashirama and his arsenal is more powerful and surpasses Hiruzens, regardless of Hiruzen's versatility

 

[Fanta]

Your just assuming he isn't on hashirama's level and that he doesn't have a jutsu to keep up with him.



Well of course feat wise hiruzen is weaker, We've seen nothing of prime hiruzen nor his full arsenal of jutsu's.

It's like me saying Rock Lee > white fang because he has no feats to back up his hype.

You think you loose jutsu as you age?

@bold, no. just no. This is different, at least we have seen Hiruzen in a full fledged fight and seen what jutsu's he has.

 

[Exaar]

But Hiruzen even admitted that all of his knowledge is no match for Orochimaru's talent:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

That proves what exactly?

Disagree; to be made Hokage one of the prerequisites is being the strongest in the village at the time:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Being the strongest in the village and being Hailed as a god of shinobi are two vastly different things.

Tobirama was never hailed as a God, Nor was Minato, Nor has any other kage apart from hashirama.

He was considered the strongest of the five Kage... simply due to the fact that he was Hokage:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Wrong scan, The viz say's no such thing

I cannot find the scan at the moment but it says something like this "Knowing His(Hiruzen's) reputation of being the strongest leader of the 5 territories". It say's nothing of it saying simply because he was hokage.

@ Bolded those arent assumptions, weve seen a little of what they can do . And clearly Hashirama and his arsenal is more powerful and surpasses old Hiruzens, regardless of Hiruzen's versatility

Fixed for you.

You think you loose jutsu as you age?

You don't lose jutsu's, You just lose the ability to use them on a Large scale and are limited to low chakra useage jutsu's.

So technically he might not of been able to use his more powerful jutsu's because of his lack of stamina.

@bold, no. just no. This is different, at least we have seen Hiruzen in a full fledged fight and seen what jutsu's he has.

Yes, by your logic, Lee > white fang.

We've only seen a Hiruzen who is in a miserable state compared to his prime in battle, We havn't even begun to touch hiruzen's jutsu arsenal.

 

[shelke]

Well of course feat wise hiruzen is weaker, We've seen nothing of prime hiruzen nor his full arsenal of jutsu's.

It's like me saying Rock Lee > white fang because he has no feats to back up his hype.

Until the manga doesn't show anything more, it's wrong to assume his non-existent justus or their power. White fang is a non-commodity in this discussion. For all we know, Lee could be a better ninja. Can you dispute this? As one hasn't shown a thing, while the other actually has feats?

 

[Fanta]

That proves what exactly?





Being the strongest in the village and being Hailed as a god of shinobi are two vastly different things.

Tobirama was never hailed as a God, Nor was Minato, Nor has any other kage apart from hashirama.




Wrong scan, The viz say's no such thing

I cannot find the scan at the moment but it says something like this "Knowing His(Hiruzen's) reputation of being the strongest leader of the 5 territories". It say's nothing of it saying simply because he was hokage.




Fixed for you.



You don't lose jutsu's, You just lose the ability to use them on a Large scale and are limited to low chakra useage jutsu's.

So technically he might not of been able to use his more powerful jutsu's because of his lack of stamina.



Yes, by your logic, Lee > white fang.

We've only seen a Hiruzen who is in a miserable state compared to his prime in battle, We havn't even begun to touch hiruzen's jutsu arsenal.

Hashirama could also have more jutsu's etc.. whats your point? you have absolutely no proof of anything your stating.

And no friend, "my logic" is not like that. You seem to think Hiruzen is a totally differently shinobi with new jutsu's in his prime etc etc... it doesn't work like that..

 

[Omnipotent]

That proves what exactly?

It proves that all of Hiruzen's knowledge as "the Professor" (which he got for his mastery over ninjutsu) pales in comparison to the talents of the likes of Orochimaru. Unless you're saying that Orochimaru while he was still in Konohagakure was more talented than Hashirama.

For Hiruzen to even be on par with Hashirama, he'd have to take the Five Kage neg-diff (as it was stated twice in the manga that the Five Kage's combined efforts are nothing compared to Hashirama) and be above the likes of DSM Kabuto (who outright admitted his inferiority to Hashirama). You don't seriously think that, do you?

 

[Whalelord]

Hiruzen without a doubt what excuses can people make for this now Hashirama wasn't a full strength ? wrong he had unlimited chakra with an undieing body plus it was 3 vs 1. i bet if have you guys were playing a fightning video game n someone put in a cheat code for unlimited health n power ups you'd call foul play Hashirama lost already dal with it lol

 

[Fanta]

Hiruzen without a doubt what excuses can people make for this now Hashirama wasn't a full strength ? wrong he had unlimited chakra with an undieing body plus it was 3 vs 1. i bet if have you guys were playing a fightning video game n someone put in a cheat code for unlimited health n power ups you'd call foul play Hashirama lost already dal with it lol

Mindless zombie Hashirama is nothing compared to the real Hashirama. We didn't even see techs like wood dragon...

 

[Whalelord]

Mindless zombie Hashirama is nothing compared to the real Hashirama. We didn't even see techs like wood dragon...

Right and unlimited chakra with health was such a clean fight i'd beat anyone on here would like to get ganged up on 3 vs 1 aspecially passed there prime don't you think lmao?

 

[Fanta]

Right and unlimited chakra with health was such a clean fight i'd beat anyone on here would like to get ganged up on 3 vs 1 aspecially passed there prime don't you think lmao?

I'll say it again, The Hashirama that Orochimaru made is nothing compared to the real Hashirama. The Edo Tensei Hashirama was made to TOY with Hurizen. We're talking about the guy that beat Madara.......

 

[Exaar]

Until the manga doesn't show anything more, it's wrong to assume his non-existent justus or their power. White fang is a non-commodity in this discussion. For all we know, Lee could be a better ninja. Can you dispute this? As one hasn't shown a thing, while the other actually has feats?

White fang's hype puts him on the sannin's level according to the viz scan.
The level of the sannin is far above than of a chunin.

People act like kishi throws random titles/hype at characters.

It proves that all of Hiruzen's knowledge as "the Professor" (which he got for his mastery over ninjutsu) pales in comparison to the talents of the likes of Orochimaru. Unless you're saying that Orochimaru while he was still in Konohagakure was more talented than Hashirama.

How does that actually refute his God of shinobi title?.

For Hiruzen to even be on par with Hashirama, he'd have to take the Five Kage neg-diff (as it was stated twice in the manga that the Five Kage's combined efforts are nothing compared to Hashirama) and be above the likes of DSM Kabuto (who outright admitted his inferiority to Hashirama). You don't seriously think that, do you?

Madara has sprouted alot of Crap about Hashirama and the kages and has since changed his mind.
He said they do deserve the title of Kage, When befor he called them nothing and weak.
He said tsunades tech's were nothing to hashirama's, Then he took it back after seeing her jutsu.
Let alone when he said "they're nothing to you", he was crawling out of the hole the kages just pounded him and his susanoo into

Also the people said to be nothing to hashirama, Forced an Edo madara to use clones inplace of his edo body, Forced him to use Perfect susanoo and almost sealed him a couple of times.

Anyway, Why is it so impossible for hiruzen to be stronger?, Even though his hype rivals the might hashirama's

 

[Omnipotent]

Madara has sprouted alot of Crap about Hashirama and the kages and has since changed his mind.
He said they do deserve the title of Kage, When befor he called them nothing and weak.
He said tsunades tech's were nothing to hashirama's, Then he took it back after seeing her jutsu.
Let alone when he said "they're nothing to you", he was crawling out of the hole the kages just pounded him and his susanoo into

Also the people said to be nothing to hashirama, Forced an Edo madara to use clones inplace of his edo body, Forced him to use Perfect susanoo and almost sealed him a couple of times.

Anyway, Why is it so impossible for hiruzen to be stronger?, Even though his hype rivals the might hashirama's

So you're saying what he said about Hashirama isn't true?
Forcing someone who isn't "trying" isn't too much of a feat.
So, you believe Hiruzen to be above the likes of DSM Kabuto? :rofl:

How does that actually refute his God of shinobi title?.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Even with the jutsu he would be able to use against Hashirama, as Orochimaru's talent shadows over Hiruzen's knowledge, Hashirama's own much higher amount of talent would do the same.