Hashirama rumor?

[The Necromancer]

You speak the truth.. Great Job!!!



Exactly.. Hash fanboys and Hiruzen fanboys are battling over something that wasnt even written..smh

When hiruzen was spoken about he was referred to as the greatest of any kage.
When Hashirama was spoken about he was referred to as the greatest of any shinobi.

These are 2 completely diffrent claims.



there is no evidence, because manga hasnt EVER said hashirama was the strongest hokage.. Hiruzen is the only ninja in the manga to ever be refered to as the strongest hokage/kage and given the title god of shinobi.


this is only your opinion.. The manga doesnt say "for his generation".. You are being bias to support hashirama.. Hiruzen is the god of shinobi, because he obviously was the greatest shinobi to ever live in his prime.

The point is that no matter what kishi wanted, whether he wanted hiruzen or hashirama to be strongest by the end of his series, he can't go back and re-write his story. He wrote that hiruzen was the strongest. Who are you to know if he changed his mind or not by part 2? You don't. No one does. That's what this forum is for, to read between the lines.

Maybe Kishi wanted Hashirama to be the greatest hokage, but because he wrote that Hiruzen was the strongest back within the first 100 issues of the manga, he can't change the past, so maybe he just made Hashirama so ridiculously OP that people would just draw the conclusion themselves?

You can't argue that fact that Hiruzen hasn't been mentioned in over 500 issues or even since part 1.

 

[binderr]

*Forgot to mention that Hiruzen was out of puff in under five minutes and committed murder-suicide using a pretty fail-safe technique, yes, that's very impressive...

well if you mention that than I will just counter by saying he was old, way old.

 

[MickNerks]

If someone gave you an immensely hyped title, you wouldn't refuse it. We're all human and although some will never back it up themselves, next to nobody would dispute it. And if I remember rightly, Iruka said that in front of a bunch of academy students, Hiruzen, the protector of the village, is hardly going to say he isn't the strongest ever because it could lead to wavering faith in his capabilites. Besides, that statement was made before practically any of the other Kages had development whatsoever. Minato was a guy in a white suit with blond hair who flashed a light and stopped the Kyuubi, that says it all.

You sound soo ..... WRONG... if kishi wanted to give praise to hashirama as being the strongest, he would have done so. At the time Iruka was giving a history lesson to the acadmy students about the hokages. He could have easily stroked hashirama's legend while he was talking to them, but he didnt.. Had he said something about hashirama this conversation wouldnt even be happening because iruka stroked your precious hashirama's ego and you would be satisfied.. Well he didnt, so get over it.. Part 1 has officially labeled hiruzen as the strongest hokage and kage to ever live. Hashirama is only refered to as the strongest shinobi of his time..

 

[sage22]

My point of this thread is even tho hashirama gets alot of hype n praise kishimoto has not gone back on his statement of hiruzen being the strongest hokage and the god of shinobi. In all honesty the first databook Said hiruzen never lost a single fight. For hashirama he author just keep giving him more abilities thru other people.

 

[x Tensa zangetsu x]

harishima beat madara

 

[MickNerks]

If someone gave you an immensely hyped title, you wouldn't refuse it. We're all human and although some will never back it up themselves, next to nobody would dispute it. And if I remember rightly, Iruka said that in front of a bunch of academy students, Hiruzen, the protector of the village, is hardly going to say he isn't the strongest ever because it could lead to wavering faith in his capabilites. Besides, that statement was made before practically any of the other Kages had development whatsoever. Minato was a guy in a white suit with blond hair who flashed a light and stopped the Kyuubi, that says it all.

You sound soo ..... WRONG... if kishi wanted to give praise to hashirama as being the strongest, he would have done so. At the time Iruka was giving a history lesson to the acadmy students about the hokages. He could have easily stroked hashirama's legend while he was talking to them, but he didnt.. Had he said something about hashirama this conversation wouldnt even be happening because iruka stroked your precious hashirama's ego and you would be satisfied.. Well he didnt, so get over it.. Part 1 has officially labeled hiruzen as the strongest hokage and kage to ever live. Hashirama is only refered to as the strongest shinobi of his time..

 

[TrollingSage]

I just want to address this logic. First let me state that it only takes one person who believes in the fairytails, to have said Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage that would make his title statement legitimate. Especially if it's as a big a difference as everyone says. As it wouldn't be locigal, if the the person believed Hashirama's whose gap was believed to be>>>>>>>>>>>>Hiruzen, but the person still believes Hiruzen is stronger. Now to move on, is Kabuto not speaking of the shinobi world? The shinboi alliance is what? 80,000 I believe? The majority of the shinobi world does not reside within Konoha. This eliminates a lot of those numbers. Furthermore, it would make absolute zero sense for outsiders to give two two bleeps about who's the strongest kage of another village. So obviously, the ones who said so resides in the village. Also, why would not Mito believes in his power? She only witnessed one of his toughest battles ever, and is only his wife. Of course she wouldn't believe it. Mito was around all the way up until Kushina became the jinchuuriki, this means the first and second war. Since there's a minority out there who believe in his power, it's only logical that the minority resides in the very village that Hashirama started and Mito (who witnessed his strength). -__- Also, Hashirama was even the teacher of Hiruzen, who recognized his techs. This same Hiruzen, who didn't dispute the title as strongest Hokage (And please we know he's not the type of guy to wear a title he doesn't deserve).


My point is, that Kabuto's line is too vague and indirect statement to be used as an argument against the 3rd's title.

Actually it isnt. Kabuto's statement was "many who heard about his power". The keywords in that statement are "many" and "heard". Many here means a large number of or majority of the people of who heard about about his power believed him to be a fairy tale. Now the fact he used the word "heard" not saw means those people who didnt believe didnt witness his power first hand.So no Kabuto's statement doesnt apply to just the shinobi alliance.It refers to anyone who didnt witness Hashirama go all out, including Tsunade his own grand daughter, who was surprised Hashirama was strong enough to fight PS

 

[MickNerks]

The point is that no matter what kishi wanted, whether he wanted hiruzen or hashirama to be strongest by the end of his series, he can't go back and re-write his story. He wrote that hiruzen was the strongest. Who are you to know if he changed his mind or not by part 2? You don't. No one does. That's what this forum is for, to read between the lines.

Maybe Kishi wanted Hashirama to be the greatest hokage, but because he wrote that Hiruzen was the strongest back within the first 100 issues of the manga, he can't change the past, so maybe he just made Hashirama so ridiculously OP that people would just draw the conclusion themselves?

You can't argue that fact that Hiruzen hasn't been mentioned in over 500 issues or even since part 1.

Hiruzen was mentioned in pt.2 by danzo, and it was stated that he was stronger than the 2nd hokage.

But if kishi wanted to change it he simply could, but havent you noticed from all this hype hashirama has recently gained, he still hasnt gained hype bigger then hiruzen in regards of who is the strongest shinobi..

In pt.1 hiruzen in his PRIME was said to be the "god of shinobi", the most powerful shinobi to exist.

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But in pt.2 hashirama is only referred as the ultimate shinobi, but he isnt hailed as the greatest shinobi to ever live. kabuto plainly states that there in no shinobi alive that can match the power of hashirama. Which proves that there are dead shinobi that could have be on the same level as hashirama i.e hiruzen.

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[Disquiet]

Actually it isnt. Kabuto's statement was "many who heard about his power". The keywords in that statement are "many" and "heard". Many here means a large number of or majority of the people of who heard about about his power believed him to be a fairy tale. Now the fact he used the word "heard" not saw means those people who didnt believe didnt witness his power first hand. So from that statement we can conclude that many of the people who didnt actually witness his power for themselves didnt believe it. So my question is how many people would have seen Hashirama go all out? I think the answer is clear. Even Tsunade, who was Hashirama's own grand daughter, was surprised at how strong Hashirama actually was. This shows that only a limited few knew what Hashirama was really capable of and the majority who heard those stories thought they were exaggerated.

Spoiler

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Even still though, the people who "heard" it and didn't believe it could very easily be outside the village. In fact, if there's a "minority" who only heard and believed it, why so? It's illogical to think that one's own shinobi would doubt while another's village's shinobi wouldl believe. And again, the majority of the shinobi world does not reside in Konoha.

 

[TrollingSage]

Hiruzen was mentioned in pt.2 by danzo, and it was stated that he was stronger than the 2nd hokage.

But if kishi wanted to change it he simply could, but havent you noticed from all this hype hashirama has recently gained, he still hasnt gained hype bigger then hiruzen in regards of who is the strongest shinobi..

In pt.1 hiruzen in his PRIME was said to be the "god of shinobi", the most powerful shinobi to exist.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But in pt.2 hashirama is only referred as the ultimate shinobi, but he isnt hailed as the greatest shinobi to ever live. kabuto plainly states that there in no shinobi alive that can match the power of hashirama. Which proves that there are dead shinobi that could have be on the same level as hashirama i.e hiruzen.

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Countering hype with hype. Hashirama and his brother were also said to be the best shinobi

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Spoiler

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Even still though, the people who "heard" it and didn't believe it could very easily be outside the village. In fact, if there's a "minority" who only heard and believed it, why so? It's illogical to think that one's own shinobi would doubt while another's village's shinobi wouldl believe. And again, the majority of the shinobi world does not reside in Konoha.

Or they could have been in the village as well. Like I said even Tsunade, Hashirama's own grand daughter, was suprised by how strong Hashirama actually was. Now if even his own grand daughter doesnt know his true potential, do you think the other people who arent even related to Hashirama or seen him before will know any better?

 

[sage22]

Hiruzen was mentioned in pt.2 by danzo, and it was stated that he was stronger than the 2nd hokage.

But if kishi wanted to change it he simply could, but havent you noticed from all this hype hashirama has recently gained, he still hasnt gained hype bigger then hiruzen in regards of who is the strongest shinobi..

In pt.1 hiruzen in his PRIME was said to be the "god of shinobi", the most powerful shinobi to exist.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But in pt.2 hashirama is only referred as the ultimate shinobi, but he isnt hailed as the greatest shinobi to ever live. kabuto plainly states that there in no shinobi alive that can match the power of hashirama. Which proves that there are dead shinobi that could have be on the same level as hashirama i.e hiruzen.

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Thank you bro. Where did u get the pic of hiruzen tho.

 

[Exaar]

Countering hype with hype. Hashirama and his brother were also said to be the best shinobi

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That doesn't really counter hiruzens hype.

They are said to be the best shinobi, This doesn't mean they're the strongest.

Kakashi/itachi and many others are far better shionbi's than naruto, Doesn't make them stronger, The anbu could of just outright stated that they're hailed as the strongest, but he didn't.

 

[Enton]

Hiruzen was mentioned in pt.2 by danzo, and it was stated that he was stronger than the 2nd hokage.

But if kishi wanted to change it he simply could, but havent you noticed from all this hype hashirama has recently gained, he still hasnt gained hype bigger then hiruzen in regards of who is the strongest shinobi..

In pt.1 hiruzen in his PRIME was said to be the "god of shinobi", the most powerful shinobi to exist.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But in pt.2 hashirama is only referred as the ultimate shinobi, but he isnt hailed as the greatest shinobi to ever live. kabuto plainly states that there in no shinobi alive that can match the power of hashirama. Which proves that there are dead shinobi that could have be on the same level as hashirama i.e hiruzen.

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hiruzen was never called the strongest in the official scan, just said to have superlative strength. get it right.

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jiraiya was his own student never spoke about him (only minato) and hiruzen hasn't been mentioned in like 300 chapters. hashirama is obviously the strongest. get with the programme.

 

[sage22]

Countering hype with hype. Hashirama and his brother were also said to be the best shinobi

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Or they could have been in the village as well. Like I said even Tsunade, Hashirama's own grand daughter, was suprised by how strong Hashirama actually was. Now if even his own grand daughter doesnt know his true potential, do you think the other people who arent even related to Hashirama or seen him before will know any better?

Nice comeback respect for that. But the manga does state that the 3rd was said to be the strongest of all. The other one says the brothers were the best shinobi's. Just cuz u can beat someone up that doesn't make u stronger than them.

 

[TrollingSage]

That doesn't really counter hiruzens hype.

They are said to be the best shinobi, This doesn't mean they're the strongest.

Kakashi/itachi and many others are far better shionbi's than naruto, Doesn't make them stronger, The anbu could of just outright stated that they're hailed as the strongest, but he didn't.

How are Kakashi and Itachi better shinobis than Naruto? I know what you're going to say and I must warn you, its going to go against you. Hiruzen was also said to know over a 1000 jutsu and mastered all the jutsus of the hidden leaf.

 

[The Necromancer]

Hiruzen was mentioned in pt.2 by danzo, and it was stated that he was stronger than the 2nd hokage.

But if kishi wanted to change it he simply could, but havent you noticed from all this hype hashirama has recently gained, he still hasnt gained hype bigger then hiruzen in regards of who is the strongest shinobi..

In pt.1 hiruzen in his PRIME was said to be the "god of shinobi", the most powerful shinobi to exist.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

But in pt.2 hashirama is only referred as the ultimate shinobi, but he isnt hailed as the greatest shinobi to ever live. kabuto plainly states that there in no shinobi alive that can match the power of hashirama. Which proves that there are dead shinobi that could have be on the same level as hashirama i.e hiruzen.

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So what... you want kishi to just go back and re release the chapters that said Hiruzen was the strongest, and post "oops guys. Changed my mind." Are you serious? Kishi has contradicted himself multiple times, and based on the fact that he has all but forgotten about Hiruzen shows me that he is no longer important to the story, whereas Hashirama is mentioned almost every 10 chapters.

I suppose nothing short of kishi calling Hashirama "God of the God of Shinobi" will convince you people, but seeing as how kishi can't change the past, (the past being iruka in like chapter 20 over 600 chapters ago) the only way is to go off of feats, which hashirama has more of.

I remember when neji's rotation was hailed as "the ultimate defense," how pitiful that statement truly is as of now. And I remember when the hyuuga were the oldest clan in the village, and yet the senju and uchiha started the village together. Contradictions happen, and there is never any single phrase that corrects it, you have to make those connections yourself.
Sure, you can go on believing a 6 year old statement made 600+ chapters ago, or you can read what's currently happening and come to your own separate conclusion. I'm not here to make you believe either one, i'm just placing my opinion.

 

[Exaar]

hiruzen was never called the strongest in the official scan, just said to have superlative strength. get it right.

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jiraiya was his own student never spoke about him (only minato) and hiruzen hasn't been mentioned in like 300 chapters. hashirama is obviously the strongest. get with the programme.

Do you not know what superlative means?, It's basically saying the same as every other scan.

Hiruzen has nothing to do with the story line at the moment, Kishi randomly bringing him up would make no sense at all.

 

[Enton]

Do you not know what superlative means?, It's basically saying the same as every other scan.

Hiruzen has nothing to do with the story line at the moment, Kishi randomly bringing him up would make no sense at all.

a superlative does not actually mean strongest, it is just a form of praise. but whatever lies you people want to use in order to back your argument.

 

[Enton]

So what... you want kishi to just go back and re release the chapters that said Hiruzen was the strongest, and post "oops guys. Changed my mind." Are you serious? Kishi has contradicted himself multiple times, and based on the fact that he has all but forgotten about Hiruzen shows me that he is no longer important to the story, whereas Hashirama is mentioned almost every 10 chapters.

I suppose nothing short of kishi calling Hashirama "God of the God of Shinobi" will convince you people, but seeing as how kishi can't change the past, (the past being iruka in like chapter 20 over 600 chapters ago) the only way is to go off of feats, which hashirama has more of.

I remember when neji's rotation was hailed as "the ultimate defense," how pitiful that statement truly is as of now. And I remember when the hyuuga were the oldest clan in the village, and yet the senju and uchiha started the village together. Contradictions happen, and there is never any single phrase that corrects it, you have to make those connections yourself.
Sure, you can go on believing a 6 year old statement made 600+ chapters ago, or you can read what's currently happening and come to your own separate conclusion. I'm not here to make you believe either one, i'm just placing my opinion.

some with sense, rep.

 

[Exaar]

a superlative does not actually mean strongest, it is just a form of praise. but whatever lies you people want to use in order to back your argument.

su·per·la·tive (s-pûrl-tv)
adj.
1. Of the highest order, quality, or degree; surpassing or superior to all others.