Hashirama can't be stronger than Madara, don't fool yourself

[NarutoSamaKama]

No. Please tell me how he could win. I've showed how Hashirama counters everything Madara has. The only thing Is Juubi which seems to be under control.

Not the current Madara.

 

[Bronze]

No. Please tell me how he could win. I've showed how Hashirama counters everything Madara has. The only thing Is Juubi which seems to be under control.

hashirama cant catch meteor.
hashirama cant fight ems and rinnegan wood susanoo clones at once.
hashirama cant fight rinnegan user since he doesnt know how to fight it.

 

[TheSages456]

there is an extreme amount of madara fanboyism in this thread. posting manga evidence that disproves their nonsense will probably be in vain as they are one of the most stubborn fanbase but here goes nothing. i will make this as simple as possible.

shinsusenju>PS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else madara has.



edo madara himself already refuted the notion that he is stronger than his ems counterpart. so did onoki and tsunade.

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madara talking about his full power:
"Thus, I, Uchiha Madara, shall also respond with full power!"

^step one in kishi pushing the message that ems and edo madara are one in the same power wise. here edo madara says that his full power is PS which was also ems madaras full power. somehow, fanboys fabricated the belief that edo madara>ems madara despite them having the exact, same full power. its quite sad how delusional they are.


tsunade commenting on edo madara:
"Grandpa fought a guy like this...?"

^step two in kishi pushing the message that edo madara is the same madara that hashirama defeated. tsunade knows full well that madara didnt have mokuton during his fight with hashirama. why did she say this then? she said this because she saw that:
1. PS is edo madaras full power and its the same full power he had at VOTE.
2. compared to PS, what madara used before revealing it was on a severely inferior level.

onoki referring to ems madaras power when edo madara is in front of him:
"So this...Is Uchiha Madara..."

^the third step by kishi in making edo madara equivalent to ems madara power wise. when referring to ems madara, onoki sees edo madaras showing of PS which he stated himself to be his full power as a revelation to how strong ems madara was and that he held back against him. even the most incompetent of readers should be able to comprehend the message at this point.



kishi has delivered the message that edo madara is equivalent in power to the madara that hashirama defeated three times, but they wont accept this because people dont know how to judge power and they think that madara gaining some techniques that dont have 1/1000th of the power that he had in the past make him stronger. gaining tech weaker than you're full power doesnt make you stronger.


the powers that hashirama faced at VOTE:

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are canonically stated to be greater than edo madaras new powers:

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and are canonically shown to be greater than edo madaras new powers:

Spoiler

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the full power of hashirama is shown to be greater than the powers that edo madara canonically stated and showed were greater than the new techniques he gained:

Spoiler

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madara will need something stronger than perfect susano to beat hashirama. currently, edo madara has nothing that makes him stronger than ems madara. they have the same full power. only their performance in lower scale combat are different.

 

[Bronze]

there is an extreme amount of madara fanboyism in this thread. posting manga evidence that disproves their nonsense will probably be in vain as they are one of the most stubborn fanbase but here goes nothing. i will make this as simple as possible.

shinsusenju>PS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else madara has.



edo madara himself already refuted the notion that he is stronger than his ems counterpart. so did onoki and tsunade.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

madara talking about his full power:
"Thus, I, Uchiha Madara, shall also respond with full power!"

^step one in kishi pushing the message that ems and edo madara are one in the same power wise. here edo madara says that his full power is PS which was also ems madaras full power. somehow, fanboys fabricated the belief that edo madara>ems madara despite them having the exact, same full power. its quite sad how delusional they are.


tsunade commenting on edo madara:
"Grandpa fought a guy like this...?"

^step two in kishi pushing the message that edo madara is the same madara that hashirama defeated. tsunade knows full well that madara didnt have mokuton during his fight with hashirama. why did she say this then? she said this because she saw that:
1. PS is edo madaras full power and its the same full power he had at VOTE.
2. compared to PS, what madara used before revealing it was on a severely inferior level.

onoki referring to ems madaras power when edo madara is in front of him:
"So this...Is Uchiha Madara..."

^the third step by kishi in making edo madara equivalent to ems madara power wise. when referring to ems madara, onoki sees edo madaras showing of PS which he stated himself to be his full power as a revelation to how strong ems madara was and that he held back against him. even the most incompetent of readers should be able to comprehend the message at this point.



kishi has delivered the message that edo madara is equivalent in power to the madara that hashirama defeated three times, but they wont accept this because people dont know how to judge power and they think that madara gaining some techniques that dont have 1/1000th of the power that he had in the past make him stronger. gaining tech weaker than you're full power doesnt make you stronger.


the powers that hashirama faced at VOTE:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

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You must be registered for see images

are canonically stated to be greater than edo madaras new powers:

Spoiler

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and are canonically shown to be greater than edo madaras new powers:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

the full power of hashirama is shown to be greater than the powers that edo madara canonically stated and showed were greater than the new techniques he gained:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

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madara will need something stronger than perfect susano to beat hashirama. currently, edo madara has nothing that makes him stronger than ems madara. they have the same full power. only their performance in lower scale combat are different.

all you have posted is PS being madara's full power, when are you ever gonna learn?

edo madara is now beyond his prime which was EMS, PS combined with kyuubi as kabuto stated:

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also when you add ems+rinnegan+mokuton+edo bonuses, that power surpasses PS. why cant you understand this?

 

[BlackFlame44]

Well...yes I'm saying Hashirama can't make as many because he hasn't shown to do so. From my understanding on Naruto base if you show not, you can not. I believe he can but we can't assume and be as intrepid to state it as fact if someone has not been shown to, or said to is all I'm saying. No disrespect....but your comparisons on Edo Hashirama, and Hashirama are also incorrect...the technicalities you mention are all opinionated, no? Just asking, but has it been revealed that what you say is fact? Atm I believe all we know is that Edo Hashirama is inferior to Hashirama as it has been said. Nao, the minuscule technicalities have yet to be exhumed, no? Im not trying to addle, or disrespect you I'm just saying. Plz don't be upset.

Leave erza a alone

 

[Waltz]

madara will need something stronger than perfect susano to beat hashirama. currently, edo madara has nothing that makes him stronger than ems madara. they have the same full power.

Sufficient a reason not to take you seriously; would also advise you refer to a dictionary for the meaning of 'Power' and to also keep in mind that indeed through his achievements as an individual Perfect Susano'o is Madara's full power in his prime [hence the statement], but the issue here is his Edo tensei State which is far beyond that.​

 

[TheSages456]

all you have posted is PS being madara's full power, when are you ever gonna learn?

edo madara is now beyond his prime which was EMS, PS combined with kyuubi as kabuto stated:

You must be registered for see images

also when you add ems+rinnegan+mokuton+edo bonuses, that power surpasses PS. why cant you understand this?

kabuto said that he enhanced his body beyond what is was before. he says nothing about power. i dont know what you're getting at.

when are you going to learn that claiming that madara has anything greater than PS is a direct contradiction to the manga?

 

[TheSages456]

Sufficient a reason not to take you seriously; would also advise you refer to a dictionary for the meaning of 'Power' and to also keep in mind that indeed through his achievements as an individual Perfect Susano'o is Madara's full power in his prime [hence the statement], but the issue here is his Edo tensei State which is far beyond that.​

why do you keep adding words? "Thus, I, Uchiha Madara, shall also respond with full power!"(full stop). when did madara say that PS was his full power in life but it isnt now? post that scan then there may be something to discuss. until then you are merely speculating and this has no value in a debate.

 

[Waltz]

The Rin'negan being superior to the Sharingan is enough reason.


​

 

[BlackFlame44]

there is an extreme amount of madara fanboyism in this thread. posting manga evidence that disproves their nonsense will probably be in vain as they are one of the most stubborn fanbase but here goes nothing. i will make this as simple as possible.

shinsusenju>PS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else madara has.



edo madara himself already refuted the notion that he is stronger than his ems counterpart. so did onoki and tsunade.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

madara talking about his full power:
"Thus, I, Uchiha Madara, shall also respond with full power!"

^step one in kishi pushing the message that ems and edo madara are one in the same power wise. here edo madara says that his full power is PS which was also ems madaras full power. somehow, fanboys fabricated the belief that edo madara>ems madara despite them having the exact, same full power. its quite sad how delusional they are.


tsunade commenting on edo madara:
"Grandpa fought a guy like this...?"

^step two in kishi pushing the message that edo madara is the same madara that hashirama defeated. tsunade knows full well that madara didnt have mokuton during his fight with hashirama. why did she say this then? she said this because she saw that:
1. PS is edo madaras full power and its the same full power he had at VOTE.
2. compared to PS, what madara used before revealing it was on a severely inferior level.

onoki referring to ems madaras power when edo madara is in front of him:
"So this...Is Uchiha Madara..."

^the third step by kishi in making edo madara equivalent to ems madara power wise. when referring to ems madara, onoki sees edo madaras showing of PS which he stated himself to be his full power as a revelation to how strong ems madara was and that he held back against him. even the most incompetent of readers should be able to comprehend the message at this point.



kishi has delivered the message that edo madara is equivalent in power to the madara that hashirama defeated three times, but they wont accept this because people dont know how to judge power and they think that madara gaining some techniques that dont have 1/1000th of the power that he had in the past make him stronger. gaining tech weaker than you're full power doesnt make you stronger.


the powers that hashirama faced at VOTE:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

are canonically stated to be greater than edo madaras new powers:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

and are canonically shown to be greater than edo madaras new powers:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

the full power of hashirama is shown to be greater than the powers that edo madara canonically stated and showed were greater than the new techniques he gained:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

madara will need something stronger than perfect susano to beat hashirama. currently, edo madara has nothing that makes him stronger than ems madara. they have the same full power. only their performance in lower scale combat are different.

.... I think madara is much stronger now than he was then....

 

[TheSages456]

The Rin'negan being superior to the Sharingan is enough reason.​

no its not.

"Thus, I, Uchiha Madara, shall also respond with full power!"(full stop).

this statement stands until contradicted by madara. you're speculation means nothing. why do you pass it off as fact?

 

[Waltz]

no its not.

"Thus, I, Uchiha Madara, shall also respond with full power!"(full stop).

this statement stands until contradicted by madara. you're speculation means nothing. why do you pass it off as fact?

You're missing the point. Here is Madara in his Prime wielding Perfect Susano'o:

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If Hashirama was almost pushed to his limits while facing Madara in his prime while he had this "full power", do you really think he could stand up to both it and the Rin'negan as well as his own Jutsu? [Madara's Edo tensei State] I often wonder if you're serious. Power is the ability to do something. Madara having the Rin'negan, Mokuton and an Edo Body Makes him able to do much more than in his Prime [EMS] therefore more powerful; completely contradicting your claims. ​

 

[TheSages456]

You're Missing the point. Here is Madara in his Prime wielding Perfect Susano'o:

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If Hashirama was almost pushed to his limits while facing Madara in his prime while he had this "full power", do you really think he could stand up to both it and the Rin'negan as well as his own Jutsu? [Madara's Edo tensei State] I often wonder if you're serious. ​

you're under the preposterous notion that madara can use every single tech in his arsenal at the same time. when edo madara uses his canon full power, he will use it and that alone as shown in the fight with the gokage. there is no more rinnegan techs and mokuton once PS comes out.

 

[Waltz]

you're under the preposterous notion that madara can use every single tech in his arsenal at the same time. when edo madara uses his canon full power, he will use it and that alone as shown in the fight with the gokage. there is no more rinnegan techs and mokuton once PS comes out.

How Ironic, you've now referred to speculation.

What evidence do you have that Rin'negan and Mokuton Jutsu cannot be used while Sharingan jutsu such as Susano'o are active? Actually, Didn't Madara use Preta path while Maintaining Susano'o:

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The mere fact that Edo-Madara has the Rin'negan's jutsu at his disposal already makes him not only greater than in his prime but stronger than the Hashirama he faced then. It's absurd to think otherwise.
​

 

[TheSages456]

How Ironic, you've now referred to speculation.​

yup, you're still doing it.

What evidence do you have that Rin'negan and Mokuton Jutsu cannot be used while Sharingan jutsu such as Susano'o are active? Actually, Didn't Madara use Preta path while Maintaining Susano'o:

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madara has never used rinnegan techs and mokuton in susano so he doesnt have this ability and you are the one speculating if you're claiming he can do this. no, he didnt use preta path in susano as preta path wasnt used on that page. on the next page, you clearly see susano deconstructing as preta path is utilized. also:

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The mere fact that Edo-Madara has the Rin'negan's jutsu at his disposal already makes him not only greater than in his prime but stronger than the Hashirama he faced then. It's absurd to think otherwise.

​

not really since they are weaker than what madara used to fight hashirama before.

 

[Waltz]

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Wrong again there: Actually, Madara had already absorb Fuuton Rasen-Shuriken at this point, then a few things happened:

-> Madara makes a statement
-> A few other statements are made
-> Madara jumps

Then we see Susano'o' deteriorating; solely implying that it was still active while Gakido was in use. You actually think the Rikudo's Doujutsu is inferior to the Kyuubi? Funny.

​

 

[TheSages456]

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Wrong again there: Actually, Madara had already absorb Fuuton Rasen-Shuriken at this point, then a few things happened:

-> Madara makes a statement
-> A few other statements are made
-> Madara jumps

Then we see Susano'o' deteriorating; solely implying that it was still active while Gakido was in use. You actually think the Rikudo's Doujutsu is inferior to the Kyuubi? Funny.

​

rasenshuriken is clearly shown to be absorbed on the middle, right panel.
no, it couldnt have been active due to this statement:

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madara stated that he couldnt properly utilize an ability of the 6 paths(preta path) due to his susano being active.

 

[Waltz]

rasenshuriken is clearly shown to be absorbed on the middle, right panel.
no, it couldnt have been active due to this statement:

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madara stated that he couldnt properly utilize an ability of the 6 paths(preta path) due to his susano being active.

Nice try, it was already absorbed by the right middle panel. About that scan:

-> Madara was not shown to be using Susano'o' before that statement was made.
-> Would make sense if being within the Susano'o' would prohibit him from utilizing Gakido.

To say that it extends to all the paths of the Rin'negan is a hasty generalization.

You've completely ignored the portion pertaining to the Rin'negan and kyuubi. I've already proven my point in this thread and the discussion has side tracked from the two shinobi to Madara's jutsu.
​

 

[TheSages456]

Nice try, it was already absorbed by the right middle panel. About that scan: ​

madara is not shown to have any contact with the rasenshuriken prior to that panel.

-> Madara was not shown to be using Susano'o' before that statement was made.
-> Would make sense if being within the Susano'o' would prohibit him from utilizing Gakido.

its pretty clear that madaras clones using susano extends to madara. if it didnt, madara wouldve absorbed the jinton.

To say that it extends to all the paths of the Rin'negan is a hasty generalization.

not really since all the paths are part of one technique and madara stated that he couldnt use a rinnegan path due to susano. its not like, any of the other paths will be included anyway until madara shows feats with them.

You've completely ignored the portion pertaining to the Rin'negan and kyuubi. I've already proven my point in this thread and the discussion has side tracked from the two shinobi to Madara's jutsu.

​

nagato stated that 50% kyuubi in its 8 tailed state was stronger than the full power of his rinnegan which is chibaku tensei. madaras rinnegan wasnt even a factor against the power of the kyuubi(BM naruto) in the manga.
you are the one that begun this when you claimed that PS isnt madaras full power and that he can use preta path in susano.

 

[Zebstrika]

Even if Madara is stronger than Hashirama, Hashirama and Madara clearly outclass the other hokages.