Hashirama and "Prime" Hiruzen. Shedding light on both fandoms

[Vandenre1ch]

Hiruzen and Hashirama are full of misconceptions and logic that people seem to ignore and they will be answered/exposed in this thread. Its either Hiruzens or Hashirama fanboys being straight foward and blunt when saying the character they support is stronger. I'll be the long awaited neutral party and debunk both characters.
Lets start with the beginning:

Old Hiruzen vs Edo Hashirama, Edo Tobirama and Orochimaru

Hiruzen fans say "Old Hiruzen defeated Edo Hashi,Edo Tobirama and Orochimaru so Hiruzen>Hashirama." That is FALSE. Hiruzen was forced to commit suicide in order to take out a haxed Edo Hashirama and Tobirama and still failed in the end for he didnt defeat Orochimaru.

The entire fight was a misconception that influenced Hiruzen and Hashirama fans alike. Misconceptions include:
-Hashirama and Tobirama were being controlled by Orochimaru

-Hashirama and Tobirama only used 2 technigues each throughout the entire fight. A small scale mokuton on top of a roof and bringer of darkness for Hashirama, Water Wall and water wave for Tobirama.

-For like 80% of the fight, Oro made Hashi and Tobir do nothing but offensive rushdown against Old Hiruzen which is a smart tactic by Orochimaru, taking advantage of Hiruzen's low stamina.

-Hiruzen was clearly outmatched in taijutsu against Hashi and Tobir as he couldnt keep up. Some will say "Hiruzen blew off their limbs" and such but remember: Oro could be as reckless as he wants since they could regenerate. Even if that was the real Hashirama, he would simply heal himself.

-Hashirama and Tobirama deflected Hiruzen's fire and earth arsenal, outmatched him in taijutsu and eventually "defeated" him by trapping him in Wood style. If Hiruzen never summoned Enma, he would be dead.
Haxed Edo Hashirama and Tobirama>Old Hiruzen.

-With Enma by his side, the momentum shifted towards Hiruzen. Old Hiruzen with Enma >/=Hashi and Tobir. However, Hiruzen still in the end could not defeat Hashirama and Tobirama. Realizing this, he used RDS to seal them away but failed to seal Orochimaru. However you see it, it was draw then later turned into a lost.

Im not sure how Prime Hiruzen would do in that fight but I have some crucial evidence that proves Hashirama>Prime Hiruzen:
Those who hear of Prime Hiruzen's strength consider him a God of Shinobi.
Those who of Hashirama's strength consider him a myth and fairy tale.
Why is that? Why are Hiruzen's feats believable while Hashirama's are considered fake?

Because people dont believe anyone, not even Prime Hiruzen, could be as strong as Hashiramas claimed to be. Hashirama is on a completely different level than Prime Hiruzen.

Hashirama Senju>Hiruzen Sarutobi

Edit: We have never seen Prime Hiruzen in a fight bit its obvious that hes better than his older counterpart. Prime Hiruzen is AT LEAST, stronger than 3rd Raikage,Muu,2nd Mizu,Onoki and A based of the manga hype and Kishi interview about Hiruzen's Hokage reign.

Kiski:"Hiruzen was a truly powerful shinobi. He has earned the moniker of God of Shinibi. During the 2nd and 3rd wars he went undefeated. He beat every opponent that faced him evn Kages."

Not bashin' Hiruzen or nothing. I said im a neutral party.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Preach brother, preach!

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

Boy I'm really glad this is going to be a thing in the next few minutes.

 

[MickNerks]

Hahahaha.. All of this is non-sense.lol

You mention nothing of hiruzen in his prime, yet you automatically consider hashirama stronger because YOU believe the hype of "fairytale" is better than "god of shinobi" (title given to the sage as well). you must be a hashirama fanboy because you gave no real evidence who the stronger is between the two. You only gave your own personal opinion.

 

[SuperSayin]

the reason they thought of hashirama's power as a fairy tale is mainly because at one point in his life he controlled all 7 tailed beasts, and well for the taijutsu part i thought hiruzen did pretty well considering his age.

 

[SuperSayin]

Hahahaha.. All of this is non-sense.lol

You mention nothing of hiruzen in his prime, yet you automatically consider hashirama stronger because YOU believe the hype of "fairytale" is better than "god of shinobi" (title given to the sage as well). you must be a hashirama fanboy because you gave no real evidence who the stronger is between the two. You only gave your own personal opinion.

true

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Hahahaha.. All of this is non-sense.lol

You mention nothing of hiruzen in his prime, yet you automatically consider hashirama stronger because YOU believe the hype of "fairytale" is better than "god of shinobi" (title given to the sage as well). you must be a hashirama fanboy because you gave no real evidence who the stronger is between the two. You only gave your own personal opinion.

He never mentioned anything of Hiruzen in his prime? Why is that? Oh yeah, we haven't seen prime Hiruzen do jack shit and people assume he's almighty. Not only is Hashiramas' hype on par with Hiruzens' but the feats Madara is currently showcasing absolutely obliterates anything Hiruzen has ever showed us.

 

[SuperSayin]

for the blowing off the limbs part its not that orochimaru was being reckless, its because he didn't notice.

 

[Blaze Release]

Give it a day ill make it all sink in

 

[Kirikoe]

Hiruzen and Hashirama are full of misconceptions and logic that people seem to ignore and they will be answered/exposed in this thread. Its either Hiruzens or Hashirama fanboys being straight foward and blunt when saying the character they support is stronger. I'll be the long awaited neutral party and debunk both characters.
Lets start with the beginning:

Old Hiruzen vs Edo Hashirama, Edo Tobirama and Orochimaru

Hiruzen fans say "Old Hiruzen defeated Edo Hashi,Edo Tobirama and Orochimaru so Hiruzen>Hashirama." That is FALSE. Hiruzen was forced to commit suicide in order to take out a haxed Edo Hashirama and Tobirama and still failed in the end for he didnt defeat Orochimaru.

The entire fight was a misconception that influenced Hiruzen and Hashirama fans alike. Misconceptions include:
-Hashirama and Tobirama were being controlled by Orochimaru

-Hashirama and Tobirama only used 2 technigues each throughout the entire fight. A small scale mokuton on top of a roof and bringer of darkness for Hashirama, Water Wall and water wave for Tobirama.

-For like 80% of the fight, Oro made Hashi and Tobir do nothing but offensive rushdown against Old Hiruzen which is a smart tactic by Orochimaru, taking advantage of Hiruzen's low stamina.

-Hiruzen was clearly outmatched in taijutsu against Hashi and Tobir as he couldnt keep up. Some will say "Hiruzen blew off their limbs" and such but remember: Oro could be as reckless as he wants since they could regenerate. Even if that was the real Hashirama, he would simply heal himself.

-Hashirama and Tobirama deflected Hiruzen's fire and earth arsenal, outmatched him in taijutsu and eventually "defeated" him by trapping him in Wood style. If Hiruzen never summoned Enma, he would be dead.
Haxed Edo Hashirama and Tobirama>Old Hiruzen.

-With Enma by his side, the momentum shifted towards Hiruzen. Old Hiruzen with Enma >/=Hashi and Tobir. However, Hiruzen still in the end could not defeat Hashirama and Tobirama. Realizing this, he used RDS to seal them away but failed to seal Orochimaru. However you see it, it was draw then later turned into a lost.

Im not sure how Prime Hiruzen would do in that fight but I have some crucial evidence that proves Hashirama>Prime Hiruzen:
Those who hear of Prime Hiruzen's strength consider him a God of Shinobi.
Those who of Hashirama's strength consider him a myth and fairy tale.
Why is that? Why are Hiruzen's feats believable while Hashirama's are considered fake?

Because people dont believe anyone, not even Prime Hiruzen, could be as strong as Hashiramas claimed to be. Hashirama is on a completely different level than Prime Hiruzen.

Hashirama Senju>Hiruzen Sarutobi

i completely agree with u

 

[SuperSayin]

and one last thing i would like to mention, hiruzen was not "forced" to use death reaper seal. He clearly saw and recognized the technique and wasting chakra on them would be a waste of time, plus he doesn't have the chakra supply to afford wasting chakra which would put him at a disadvantage and probably lose.

 

[HashiramaDescendant]

I agree 100%.
Let's get rid of the all the misconceptions, hmm? xd

 

[Words of wisdom]

yeah old hiruzen couldve of gotten beat but kishi said in one of the databooks that even if he was ten years younger(which is still old) he would of won. Well in my opinion your right that hashirama>prime hiruzen but not by much.

 

[Kirikoe]

and one last thing i would like to mention, hiruzen was not "forced" to use death reaper seal. He clearly saw and recognized the technique and wasting chakra on them would be a waste of time, plus he doesn't have the chakra supply to afford wasting chakra which would put him at a disadvantage and probably lose.

which kinda mean's he was forced to use RDS because nothing else he could use would work ...:| even then RDS is a suicide move and at best all it does is make the battle a draw

 

[MickNerks]

He never mentioned anything of Hiruzen in his prime? Why is that? Oh yeah, we haven't seen prime Hiruzen do jack shit and people assume he's almighty. Not only is Hashiramas' hype on par with Hiruzens' but the feats Madara is currently showcasing absolutely obliterates anything Hiruzen has ever showed us.

Listen to what you are saying.lol You are contradicting yourself.

1. We have never seen hiruzen in his prime, so for anyone to say that he wasnt the strongest shinobi is only speculation.

2. According to manga, in his prime he had immense chakra levels, mastered all jutsu in hidden leaf (excluding kkg's), was considered a genius (proffessor), mastered all forms of shinobi combat (nin, tai, fin, kin, med nin). This also allows us to see the he knew all nature types.

3. Manga directly tells you that he was the strongest amongst the 1st, 2nd, and 4th hokage. And stronger than other kages.


We havent seen anything of hiruzens prime, but we have gotten information that describes his strength in his prime. His hype and prime feats make him a better shinobi than hashirama.

 

[Zorø]

i totally agree hiruzen is massively overated

 

[SuperSayin]

He never mentioned anything of Hiruzen in his prime? Why is that? Oh yeah, we haven't seen prime Hiruzen do jack shit and people assume he's almighty. Not only is Hashiramas' hype on par with Hiruzens' but the feats Madara is currently showcasing absolutely obliterates anything Hiruzen has ever showed us.

exactly, so we can't assume who would beat who and part 1 and part 2 power scaling is completely different if you haven't noticed haha

 

[SuperSayin]

i totally agree hiruzen is massively overated

He's not over rated haha most of the ppl on this site under rate him

 

[Kirikoe]

Listen to what you are saying.lol You are contradicting yourself.

1. We have never seen hiruzen in his prime, so for anyone to say that he wasnt the strongest shinobi is only speculation.

2. According to manga, in his prime he had immense chakra levels, mastered all jutsu in hidden leaf (excluding kkg's), was considered a genius (proffessor), mastered all forms of shinobi combat (nin, tai, fin, kin, med nin). This also allows us to see the he knew all nature types.

3. Manga directly tells you that he was the strongest amongst the 1st, 2nd, and 4th hokage. And stronger than other kages.


We havent seen anything of hiruzens prime, but we have gotten information that describes his strength in his prime. His hype and prime feats make him a better shinobi than hashirama.

no just because hiruzen new of all the leaf's jutsu does not mean he could use them all :| .. another thing... madara states that only hashirama can stand up to him this means that even the 3rd hokage couldnt match up to him ... but watever tho i disagree with hiruzen being the strongest hokage or even top 3 imo the manga is all about match up ...

either way the point is hiruzen died ... orochimaru survived also u cant bring up his prime as we have seen nothing on it and if we go by hype than hashirama > hiruzen its as simple as that

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Listen to what you are saying.lol You are contradicting yourself.

1. We have never seen hiruzen in his prime, so for anyone to say that he wasnt the strongest shinobi is only speculation.

2. According to manga, in his prime he had immense chakra levels, mastered all jutsu in hidden leaf (excluding kkg's), was considered a genius (proffessor), mastered all forms of shinobi combat (nin, tai, fin, kin, med nin). This also allows us to see the he knew all nature types.

3. Manga directly tells you that he was the strongest amongst the 1st, 2nd, and 4th hokage. And stronger than other kages.


We havent seen anything of hiruzens prime, but we have gotten information that describes his strength in his prime. His hype and prime feats make him a better shinobi than hashirama.

Iruka said that "it was said" that the third was the strongest of them all. Nothing directly solidifies Hiruzen as the strongest hokage.

Mastered all jutsu in the hidden leaf? I never saw shit against Orochimaru. Infact, how good are the every day jutsu? Hiruzen mastered all five natures then did he? Because I thought that was impossible without the Rinnegan. It's Hyperbole.

Excluding KKG and excluding family traits, such as shino's bugs, or the dogs the Inuzuka use. If you exclude all of these things, what jutsu really is there capable of posing a threat to Hashirama?

He was called a genius? So was Neji, Itachi, Sasuke, Orochimaru and Minato. Big whoop.