Hashirama and Edo Minato vs Juubito

Brother Numpsay

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Lol ? Ants can carry objects that are 10-50 times their weight, does it mean that an ant is stronger than you are ?
Yes, since I can't carry objects 10-50 times my weight. But since I am heavier and much bigger then ant, I am superior, unless it becomes my size.



FTG teleportation is instant, the striking speed itself isn't, Juubito used the chakra arms when they used Rasengan and they slapped the arms when it touched them.
I understand all this, the situation is still much different then Hashirama will attempt by a different scenario, correct? Hashirama doesn't start the fight with a Giant Rasengan impaling his own body.
 

RustledJimmies

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Yes, since I can't carry objects 10-50 times my weight. But since I am heavier and much bigger then ant, I am superior, unless it becomes my size.
It doesn't matter who can carry more weight, they are both against the same object here, so since SS is superior, it could do the same.

I understand all this, the situation is still much different then Hashirama will attempt by a different scenario, correct? Hashirama doesn't start the fight with a Giant Rasengan impaling his own body.
Different scenario ? Ok.

>Hashi summons Shinsuusenju
>SS starts punching Obito
>Obito tries smashing it with chakra arms
>the arms get slapped
 
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KidGamer65

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First of all he did not slammed his neck and only his lower body. Second of all, you are completely exaggerating on Kurama's lower body to try to prove a useless point of Kurama being bigger then Bunta, when Kurama's upper body is as long as his lower body too. Third, Bunta's arms already shown to grip around Kurama's, matching each other hand size. So yes Kurama is bigger then Bunta, duh, but Bunta still rival in its compatiblity, where you are showing he isn't. Its your own math problem you having trouble with.

No it doesn't as much as I expect you to pick up your puppy. Kurama, and the tail beast on the other hand, are super natural monster not only have firepower but physical prowess that can make them pick up their own weight.
Not gonna bother with the strength issues, RJ already summed everything up.



Do you even lift, brah? How else do you exercise, and get stronger? By lifting up your limit as much as possible, correct?
Yes, but that isn't related to the argument, nor is your example.

You weren't understand my premise to begin with. I was not showing that Kurama is physically superior then SS, but to prove you have no evidence to put both each other strength feats in comparison by superiority.
Uh, yes, I do. SS lifted something with one hand, Kurama has no strength feats on that level. So I have no reason to believe that Kurama is stronger, nor do I have any reason to believe that Shinsuusenju can't slap away Obito's chakra arms when 50% Kurama did so with ease.

That was not my point. Where I was going with this is to prove that none of them is physically stronger then each other. In fact equal, if I may say, since Hashirama felt the need to use SS to compete with Kurama.
Are we selectively reading the manga now? He needed Shinsuusenju to compete with PS and Kurama's overall defensive and firepower. Not in solely physical power.


Thats completely stupid comprehension , you can't block the ball, it was planning on exploding. Second, their plan was clear[ ] by shifting its route. Third, I am not circling for you, but he was using all his limbs to do the best he can, even his arms[ ].
Them saying they would do it isn't proof that he'd be able to do it. He was simply trying as hard as he could, since there was no other option. When you can get me feats of Hachibi lifting something as large as, and much heavier than the Juubi, then we can talk.



The scan I posted shows why those hands are in the air. Kurama's attack caused it, not the impact of SS hitting PS.



1. There are no trees? Then change it up before I can proof it? Not only was it easy for my to circle it for you, I will attack your second point, since that is basically showing a concession of trees not being presented.
That's leftover Mokuton, not trees.

Before: [ ]

After: [ ]

Either way its irrelevant.

2. Then you are arguing because the scenario showed him in the middle of the blast w/ Dragon and Golem, that he tanked it while Dragon and Golem was obliterated? But later shown to be on the ground covering himself later to fully tank the blast?
That is what happened. Hashirama tanked it with Hobi while his Dragon and Golem were obliterated, meaning that Hobi has more durability than Wood Dragon, and Wood Golem, unless you are asserting that either one would have survived the blast..cause then the manga would disagree with you.

Hashirama, whether on the ground or in the air, was in the heart of the blast. Mokuton Branches at the edges of the blast aren't going to be as hurt or affected.





I
ronic on who was on the ground, sheltering himself with Hobi. Point.
Still tanked the explosion. Not gonna bother with the "Mokuton durability argument" since not only does the manga completely show that you are wrong (as Hobi survived an explosion that Mokujin and Mokuryu were completely vaporized by)


You didn't prove nothing. I already concluded that Kurama=SS strength, my point was for you to prove what makes SS superior. Since PS was stated to rival Buijuu and SS was used to fight on par, I am only calculating SS strength to Buijuu's and not any stronger. The difference between Kurama's arm and SS is one is made with more flexibility while the other isn't via SS (and the fact the manga showed this combo was supported with FTG so isn't simple for Kurama to just easily push it away). One is made out of dense chakra (chakra vs chakra) while the other is breakable as much as wood. This is where the agree to disagree is at: Where I believe God Gates construction isn't any different in Mokuton (considering the way it was broken down in the manga), SS coming into contact with Chakra arms, just needs to get a good grip in order to shatter it as much as shown to God Gates. W/ spacing he can accomplish this, following by Black Orbs to slash away any contact with punches[ ]. Pounding Juubito with SS punches isn't as much different to me when God Gates pound dropped on him, to pin him down also.

-PS rivaled Bijuu in destructive capability. Nowhere was it said that they rival each other in physical strength.

-SS was used to fight on par with PS Kurama, and the latter used no kind of physical strength. It used Bijuu Dama while SS is the ony that relied on physical strength.

Flexible? Lmao. That's your excuse here? Flexiblity has nothing to do with strength, so again. SS slaps away Obito's Chakra Arms just like Kurama did. Wood being breakable doesn't change that fact.

Juubito having to react their surprise attack to block it doesn't affect its strength. Please stop nitpicking, its getting annoying.

I don't care what you believe. Myojimon isn't even a Mokuton jutsu? Why in the world would it be made out of the same stuff? Your comparison to say they are equal is nothing but flawed.

Why are you mentioning black orbs? You said Chakra Arms would tear it down, I replied and said no they won't. If you need to bring black orbs into this discussion, then its clear that you've conceeded the nonsensical "Chakra Arms GG" argument.

Except Myojinmon isn't an attack, so it did no damage to him. SS is an attack, it will punch him. And if it manages to do this, he'll die unless you think a Sage Mode Rasengan is stronger than SS's attack.

Me dropping a giant gate on something and then punching it isn't the same thing.
 
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Brother Numpsay

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Not gonna bother with the strength issues, RJ already summed everything up.
Which I also addressed


Yes, but that isn't related to the argument, nor is your example.
Yes it is. You stated weight doesn't prove strength when thats the basic fundamental of proving how strong you are physically.

Uh, yes, I do. SS lifted something with one hand, Kurama has no strength feats on that level. So I have no reason to believe that Kurama is stronger, nor do I have any reason to believe that Shinsuusenju can't slap away Obito's chakra arms when 50% Kurama did so with ease.
Didn't say Kurama was stronger. I said you example holds no water when it comes to physical superiority conclusion. 50 Kurama by scenario>100 Kurama.

Are we selectively reading the manga now? He needed Shinsuusenju to compete with PS and Kurama's overall defensive and firepower. Not in solely physical power.
Where did I disagree?


Them saying they would do it isn't proof that he'd be able to do it. He was simply trying as hard as he could, since there was no other option. When you can get me feats of Hachibi lifting something as large as, and much heavier than the Juubi, then we can talk.
Which imply he can lift it, considering it was in his hand ready to try. Agree to Disagree.



The scan I posted shows why those hands are in the air. Kurama's attack caused it, not the impact of SS hitting PS.
Wasn't talking about the hands in the air.


That's leftover Mokuton, not trees.

Before: [ ]

After: [ ]

Either way its irrelevant.
I just said that.... natural trees was never used in my premise.

That is what happened. Hashirama tanked it with Hobi while his Dragon and Golem were obliterated, meaning that Hobi has more durability than Wood Dragon, and Wood Golem, unless you are asserting that either one would have survived the blast..cause then the manga would disagree with you.
@ Bold: No you already got the scenario wrong. You just showed explained that Dragon and Golem were in the blast of TBB and that Hashirama was riding on Golem[ ]. So meaning he was at the center of the blast. That would be incorrect if you are stating he was still in that position before it exploded since he did Hobi on the ground, the safe zone of the explosion. So manga disagrees with you.

Hashirama, whether on the ground or in the air, was in the heart of the blast. Mokuton Branches at the edges of the blast aren't going to be as hurt or affected.
No he wasn't as I just prove, which you got confuse of me talking about natural tress, that every Mokuton on the ground was weren't obliterated like Dragon and Golem.




Still tanked the explosion. Not gonna bother with the "Mokuton durability argument" since not only does the manga completely show that you are wrong (as Hobi survived an explosion that Mokujin and Mokuryu were completely vaporized by)
Reading the manga wrong as explained above



-PS rivaled Bijuu in destructive capability. Nowhere was it said that they rival each other in physical strength.
It didn't state it. Dont you need physical strength to determine destructive capability?

-SS was used to fight on par with PS Kurama, and the latter used no kind of physical strength. It used Bijuu Dama while SS is the ony that relied on physical strength.
Thats just battle choice not because SS is physically superior

Flexible? Lmao. That's your excuse here? Flexiblity has nothing to do with strength, so again. SS slaps away Obito's Chakra Arms just like Kurama did. Wood being breakable doesn't change that fact.
Yes it does, Ay wasn't able to resist Madara's grip from Susanoo and puts him under genjutsu. But manga showed Ay having the strength to block a chopping swing motion of V3(legged Susanoo). Wood being able to break unlike Kurama's chakra does change the fact on how to view the scenario.

Juubito having to react their surprise attack to block it doesn't affect its strength. Please stop nitpicking, its getting annoying.
I can nitpick because the scenario isn't happening in this fight as Juuitbo isn't starting with the opponent instantly shoving a Rasengan in his face, blocking his view on top of that.

I don't care what you believe. Myojimon isn't even a Mokuton jutsu? Why in the world would it be made out of the same stuff? Your comparison to say they are equal is nothing but flawed.
Is that a question or a statement?

Why wouldn't it? The way it was broken down can either be stated to be made of stone or wood.

Why are you mentioning black orbs? You said Chakra Arms would tear it down, I replied and said no they won't. If you need to bring black orbs into this discussion, then its clear that you've conceeded the nonsensical "Chakra Arms GG" argument.
I never stated chakra arms alone will be able to defeat Hashirama did I?

I stated that chakra arms grip is all that is needed to destroy Hashirama's Mokuton. Point blank. You just made a counter on why it wouldn't be destroyed.

Except Myojinmon isn't an attack, so it did no damage to him. SS is an attack, it will punch him. And if it manages to do this, he'll die unless you think a Sage Mode Rasengan is stronger than SS's attack.
That doesn't matter Myojinmon is dropping on him as much as SS is dropping fist at him. Both of them is as heavy and weighted to smash him down. Yes I think SM Rasengan is stronger then a punch from SS. Anything else stating a punch from SS is superior then Giant Rasengan damage isn't going to be taken seriously.

Me dropping a giant gate on something and then punching it isn't the same thing.
Unless having the same mass. The size of the Gates's pole is as big as a Wooden Fist from SS.
 
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