[Discussion] Has Luffy surpassed Ace?

[Fireplay]

I find it hard to believe that Ace wouldn't have Haki. Foddershigi learned Haki in less than 2 years. Luffy also learned Haki in less than 2 years. Ace had more potential than both. Not to mention he was rolling with WB and was a NW pirate for 3 years. It's been stated numerous times that in NW a logia can't rely on his intangibility and that Haki is a must.

Ace attacked Aokiji and Akainu so why would he do it if he didn't have Haki? He knows Aokiji and Akainu have it and knowing that he would know that he can't hit them but they can hit him.

Not to mention he most likely fought logias in NW. He was a rookie and became WB's 2nd division commander in 3 years. WB wanted to make him PK. I'm pretty sure he would teach him Haki (or most likely appont Marco to do it) instead of letting Ace die to the first logia he meets. Considering his attitude he would die to the first logia he meets.

 

[ChillySnow]

I find it hard to believe that Ace wouldn't have Haki. Foddershigi learned Haki in less than 2 years. Luffy also learned Haki in less than 2 years. Ace had more potential than both. Not to mention he was rolling with WB and was a NW pirate for 3 years. It's been stated numerous times that in NW a logia can't rely on his intangibility and that Haki is a must.

Ace attacked Aokiji and Akainu so why would he do it if he didn't have Haki? He knows Aokiji and Akainu have it and knowing that he would know that he can't hit them but they can hit him.

Not to mention he most likely fought logias in NW. He was a rookie and became WB's 2nd division commander in 3 years. WB wanted to make him PK. I'm pretty sure he would teach him Haki (or most likely appont Marco to do it) instead of letting Ace die to the first logia he meets. Considering his attitude he would die to the first logia he meets.

I second this. It's common sense he would have haki. Haki is like every day thing in the NW, if Kidd and the rest learned haki in 2 yr in NW then its pretty much given Ace has it considering his superior potential and being the 2nd division commander in the strongest crew. It's like saying Mihawk don't have Haki because he never showed it.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Because it's not like we the readers would know when people use haki or not right? Unless they are the main character and use hardening? Fodder Tashigi being in NW has haki. Saying Ace didn't have haki is lacking reading comprehension.

He never had to dodge any attacks and never hit any of the admirals successfully.

You guys cannot give somebody powers that have yet to be confirmed. You're basically making Ace stronger for the sake of your arguments because you know Luffy surpassed him and you dislike to admit that on this thread. Ace is a skilled close combat fighter with an Average strength devil fruit among the Logia class. That's it. No Haki. That's what he's shown , that's what we know about his combat skills and arsenal : we cannot grant him anymore powers which we have not seen.

That's like giving Blackbeard Sengoku's fruit because you want him to have it for arguments sake. It just doesn't work. I know it's a different case but it's the same concept as making Ace stronger than he was. And because Ace never showed Haki : even if he had it it would be:
-Very weak to the point where we don't notice it
-Therefore it wouldn't make a single difference in this fight

You also cannot go on the basis of assumption. You can't assume he has Haki without him ever showing usage of Haki. You cannot assume someone in the Whitebeard Pirates was appointed to teach him. Whitebeard was the kind of guy to think that discovering new things on your own was much better. Otherwise he would've obtained One Piece. Following this concept he would think that Ace discovering Haki on his own would be better. Again I will say that you cannot assume Ace can use Haki without solid evidence to prove me wrong.

I'm not lacking comprehension when reading. I've clearly got a better understanding of making a fair debate. You can't add to somebodies power. That is like saying: "Enel vs Garp. We know Garp has Haki and that Enel also has it because of my ridiculous assumptions and stupid reasons." Same concept again. Stop adding powers to Ace and then I'll stop making lengthy time wasting explanations which all inevitably prove you incorrect.

Luffy > Ace as he G3 OS'd Chinjao , he may have weakened but he was still easily stronger than Jinbe.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Isn't it inevitable that Luffy will surpass Shanks and even Roger?

 

[silmarill]

From what we have seen so far Ace seems a little bit stronger still, but my mind tells me that before this arc ends he will.

 

[Hijey]

He never had to dodge any attacks and never hit any of the admirals successfully

And how exactly does this mean he doesn't have haki? The admirals are way stronger than him to begin with and even Marco/Vista that are stronger than him also failed to damage an admiral.

You guys cannot give somebody powers that have yet to be confirmed. You're basically making Ace stronger for the sake of your arguments because you know Luffy surpassed him and you dislike to admit that on this thread. Ace is a skilled close combat fighter with an Average strength devil fruit among the Logia class. That's it. No Haki. That's what he's shown , that's what we know about his combat skills and arsenal : we cannot grant him anymore powers which we have not seen.

You don't know wether or not he showed haki. Like I said, the readers can't tell if someone is using haki unless they are the main character and are telling us.

That's like giving Blackbeard Sengoku's fruit because you want him to have it for arguments sake. It just doesn't work. I know it's a different case but it's the same concept as making Ace stronger than he was. And because Ace never showed Haki : even if he had it it would be:
-Very weak to the point where we don't notice it
-Therefore it wouldn't make a single difference in this fight

It isn't like that at all, not even close.

You also cannot go on the basis of assumption. You can't assume he has Haki without him ever showing usage of Haki. You cannot assume someone in the Whitebeard Pirates was appointed to teach him. Whitebeard was the kind of guy to think that discovering new things on your own was much better. Otherwise he would've obtained One Piece. Following this concept he would think that Ace discovering Haki on his own would be better. Again I will say that you cannot assume Ace can use Haki without solid evidence to prove me wrong.

I'm not lacking comprehension when reading. I've clearly got a better understanding of making a fair debate. You can't add to somebodies power. That is like saying: "Enel vs Garp. We know Garp has Haki and that Enel also has it because of my ridiculous assumptions and stupid reasons." Same concept again. Stop adding powers to Ace and then I'll stop making lengthy time wasting explanations which all inevitably prove you incorrect.

Ace was someone aiming to the top, just like Luffy. Not assuming Ace didn't have haki is dumb. It's like saying Kid will not have haki when we see him or Roger doesn't have CoC because we've never seen him use it. Fodder Tashigi (even fodder Bellamy) managed to learn haki during her time in NW. Ace was in the NW longer than that and he had plently of members to teach him. He was also strong enough to make NW Captains surrender. You just can't happen to be a logia in the NW, knowing being a logia means "hey people can't hit me", be on a ship with crew members that have haki and be without haki. Comparing Enel to Ace is like comparing Usopp to Luffy which is stupid.

Luffy > Ace as he G3 OS'd Chinjao , he may have weakened but he was still easily stronger than Jinbe.

Old Chinjao being stronger than Jinbei is something you just made up. And what the hell does Jinbei have anything to do with Ace and Luffy?

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

And how exactly does this mean he doesn't have haki? The admirals are way stronger than him to begin with and even Marco/Vista that are stronger than him also failed to damage an admiral.



You don't know wether or not he showed haki. Like I said, the readers can't tell if someone is using haki unless they are the main character and are telling us.



It isn't like that at all, not even close.




Ace was someone aiming to the top, just like Luffy. Not assuming Ace didn't have haki is dumb. It's like saying Kid will not have haki when we see him or Roger doesn't have CoC because we've never seen him use it. Fodder Tashigi (even fodder Bellamy) managed to learn haki during her time in NW. Ace was in the NW longer than that and he had plently of members to teach him. He was also strong enough to make NW Captains surrender. You just can't happen to be a logia in the NW, knowing being a logia means "hey people can't hit me", be on a ship with crew members that have haki and be without haki. Comparing Enel to Ace is like comparing Usopp to Luffy which is stupid.


Old Chinjao being stronger than Jinbei is something you just made up. And what the hell does Jinbei have anything to do with Ace and Luffy?

May I just point out : until you have proof that Ace used Busoshoku Haki and Kenbushoku Haki... He does not have Haki. You can't bolster him up and give him a powerup for arguments sake. I can see why you think it's stupid to think that he doesn't have it. But he's never shown it and therefore we cannot say he has it.

How hard is it to explain that he has never shown it and therefore we cannot grant him a free f*ckin powerup. Last time I checked you're not Kubo Tite or Masashi Kishimoto.

 

[Hijey]

May I just point out : until you have proof that Ace used Busoshoku Haki and Kenbushoku Haki... He does not have Haki. You can't bolster him up and give him a powerup for arguments sake. I can see why you think it's stupid to think that he doesn't have it. But he's never shown it and therefore we cannot say he has it.

How hard is it to explain that he has never shown it and therefore we cannot grant him a free f*ckin powerup. Last time I checked you're not Kubo Tite or Masashi Kishimoto.

I'm not giving him a f*cking powerup dude. Haki is not something we readers can see to begin with. It's just plain stupid to think someone of Ace's calibre doesn't have haki after being in the NW for 2-3 years. It's like saying Vergo/Sanji didn't use haki in their fight because we can't see they did. Luffy surpassing Ace when Ace has a year on him doesn't sound good as well since the two had the same potential. But, agree to disagree I guess.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

I'm not giving him a f*cking powerup dude. Haki is not something we readers can see to begin with. It's just plain stupid to think someone of Ace's calibre doesn't have haki after being in the NW for 2-3 years. It's like saying Vergo/Sanji didn't use haki in their fight because we can't see they did. Luffy surpassing Ace when Ace has a year on him doesn't sound good as well since the two had the same potential. But, agree to disagree I guess.

Did Ace EVER read and predict an attack? Nope. Did he ever hit a Logia? Nope. Therefore there is no proof he has Haki and therefore you cannot make assumptions.