[Discussion] Has Luffy surpassed Ace?

[KcMSean]

I'm gonna have to say this we will never know what ace full Potential was because he died too soon,at marine ford arc
he could fight onpar with Akoji, bear in mind he had not eat for god knows how many days,and the Akainu thing wasn't really a fight he only tried to protect his little bro,i think full healty ace is atleast or onpar with admiral level

I'll agree with you there completely he is extremely close to admiral level. But like you've said about Ace not knowing his full potential, we haven't seen Luffy's yet either. He struggled against Hody after taking who knows how many of those steroids, and that was simply cause he's a DF fruit user fighting underwater. Other than that, he probably hasn't even scratched the surface of his new powers from what we've seen.

 

[YellowFang]

Luffy has shown proficient usage of Haki that in Ace's case not at all available...
Still, I think there isn't huge gap between the two...

 

[David1996]

He did surpass Ace.

 

[TheHokage]

I think so...all Ace had really on Luffy before the timeskip was the fact Luffy couldn't hit him due to the fact Ace was a Logia.

However now we have no idea how strong Luffy has become all we know is that Luffy now would have the ability to hit Ace.

 

[LitzSabr]

Luffy did used Elephant Gatling which is probably his strongest attack right now, and still it wasn't like Ace's Entei. Luffy's Haki is most probably stronger than Ace's Haki but his Entei>Luffy's Haki.

Luffy IMO still needs a get some more strenght to surpass Ace.

 

[ChillySnow]

Their gap is so minimal but I'd favor Ace over Luffy since he has 2 years NW experience on Luffy.

 

[Equalist]

Can't say. We've only seen Ace fight one guy.

 

[Netferarri]

Luffy hasn't even gone all out yet, but with current feats, nope but barely. But I think yes he has.

 

[VongolaX]

When he beat that 500,000,000 bounty old man, luffy surpassed Ace.

50,000,000 isn't a big significance anyway.

 

[VongolaX]

Their gap is so minimal but I'd favor Ace over Luffy since he has 2 years NW experience on Luffy.

2year experience that led to his death by akainu, even crocodile was able to land a hit and survive longer.

Luffy's definitely stronger

 

[ChillySnow]

2year experience that led to his death by akainu, even crocodile was able to land a hit and survive longer.

Luffy's definitely stronger

Ace died protecting Luffy+WB's pride. He could of escape safely if he didn't care about it. If you put Post TS Luffy in the same boat as Ace, Luffy would of died too.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

When he beat that 500,000,000 bounty old man, luffy surpassed Ace.

50,000,000 isn't a big significance anyway.

And considering it was a G3 OS too

 

[LitzSabr]

Ace when He was 17 fought on par with Jinbe for 5 days. That says something about his level when he was 19.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Ace when He was 17 fought on par with Jinbe for 5 days. That says something about his level when he was 19.

Because his DF was OP.
Ace never got training from a legendary pirate in Haki did he? Otherwise by the time he was 19 he would've been almost admiral level. But he got one shotted by one.

Luffy caught up over the time skip.

 

[Humming]

Yea, he took out a legend with a higher bounty than Ace in one blow, so no telling where his max power is now. Even if Chinjao has weakened over age, I feel like how easily he managed to do it Luffy hasn't even begun to show how strong he is. I think he takes this, but it's still damn close.

EDIT: Correction, Ace's bounty was 550, I don't know why I was thinking it was 450.

In my honest opinion? I love Ace..But, since he hasn't really trained to master Haki? (He's able to use it, albeit, he has literally no control in the area.) I believe Luffy would win due to his ability to use Haki..But, seeing as Ace has the highest known bounty, without being a Haki user? It's pretty impressive..

 

[Hijey]

Because his DF was OP.
Ace never got training from a legendary pirate in Haki did he? Otherwise by the time he was 19 he would've been almost admiral level. But he got one shotted by one.

Luffy caught up over the time skip.

Implying WB, Marco etc didn't teach him haki? Luffy is 19 now and he is nowhere near admiral level.

Luffy is still weaker than Ace. I think in 3-4 arcs he'll surpass him. Oda will probably make it obvious when that happens.

 

[LitzSabr]

Because his DF was OP.
Ace never got training from a legendary pirate in Haki did he? Otherwise by the time he was 19 he would've been almost admiral level. But he got one shotted by one.

Luffy caught up over the time skip.

His DF was OP? now that would be an advantage for him in a fight with Luffy, wouldn't it be?
Also Ace didn't lose because he had a weak Haki. He lost because his DF was weak against Magu magu and that is why he got one shot by Akainu.

he was 19 he would've been almost admiral level

Well he was good enough to tangle with Aokiji head on. Not saying that he would have won in a fight till death but you get the point that why did he got one shot from a particular Admiral and not from other because Ace's DF was weak against one of them and not in the case of other(Aokiji).

And imp thing is,, Haki is only more effective than DF when it's more than stronger than the level of DF itself. Just because Luffy has shown better Haki, you can't say that he is stronger than Ace because Ace's DF is easily above Luffy's Haki for now.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Implying WB, Marco etc didn't teach him haki? Luffy is 19 now and he is nowhere near admiral level.

Luffy is still weaker than Ace. I think in 3-4 arcs he'll surpass him. Oda will probably make it obvious when that happens.

Well they clearly didn't teach him since he NEVER F*CKIN USED IT!
How could it be anymore obvious?

His DF was OP? now that would be an advantage for him in a fight with Luffy, wouldn't it be?

Logias generally stomp in fights with non Haki users which is why the gap between Luffy and Ace was so vast.

Also Ace didn't lose because he had a weak Haki. He lost because his DF was weak against Magu magu and that is why he got one shot by Akainu.

Yep... pretty much. He still got one shotted.

Well he was good enough to tangle with Aokiji head on.

He had an elemental advantage to Kuzan. Besides this: one attack isn't much of a tangle...

Not saying that he would have won in a fight till death but you get the point that why did he got one shot from a particular Admiral and not from other because Ace's DF was weak against one of them and not in the case of other(Aokiji).

Tis similar to the chakra natures of Naruto...

And imp thing is,, Haki is only more effective than DF when it's more than stronger than the level of DF itself. Just because Luffy has shown better Haki, you can't say that he is stronger than Ace because Ace's DF is easily above Luffy's Haki for now.

How on earth is Aces devil fruit above Luffys Haki?

By powerscaling we can see:
Jinbe had a hard time against Base Luffy with no intent to kill. When Luffy gets serious in the NW he's pretty much one shotted everyone so far.

Chinjao whom has a bounty similar to Ace got one shotted by G3 Luffy. I know he got weaker : but still Chinjao was easily above Caesar. Caesar much like Ace : a Logia user without Haki... Simple logic is normally the best logic.

 

[LitzSabr]

Logias generally stomp in fights with non Haki users which is why the gap between Luffy and Ace was so vast.

Non Haki users being unable to hit Logias isn't the only thing Logias have going for them.

How on earth is Aces devil fruit above Luffys Haki?

Entei>Elephant Gatling.U_U Simple Logic.

By powerscaling we can see:
Jinbe had a hard time against Base Luffy with no intent to kill. When Luffy gets serious in the NW he's pretty much one shotted everyone so far.

Chinjao whom has a bounty similar to Ace got one shotted by G3 Luffy. I know he got weaker : but still Chinjao was easily above Caesar. Caesar much like Ace : a Logia user without Haki... Simple logic is normally the best logic.

Luffy did used G2 on Jinbe, he is slightly above Jinbe IMO but Ace when he was 17 was on par with Jinbe (probably slightly above him even back then,, ,, he had the stamina to stand up against WB until night). So by powerscaling, Luffy isn't on Ace's level yet.

Chinjao argument is invalid. Old Age+Retired for a long time+No Drill(the thing which was his main source of power)=Almost half his prime.

Caesar much like Ace : a Logia user without Haki

Why?

 

[Hijey]

Well they clearly didn't teach him since he NEVER F*CKIN USED IT!
How could it be anymore obvious?

Because it's not like we the readers would know when people use haki or not right? Unless they are the main character and use hardening? Fodder Tashigi being in NW has haki. Saying Ace didn't have haki is lacking reading comprehension.