I agree with you on this one... Psychological factors doesn't completely influence a fight. It depends on power and the fact is that Hanzo lost since he's weaker than Mifune...
Still, I don't agree with you that it's Kishi's fault. You see, he just showed us a long ago fight between the Sannins and Hanzou and every fans were like..."Woah, this Hanzou is nearly invincible... he could kick the azz of mostly everyone..."
This was too rushed as it was really not considered that a great ninja now, like A, Onoki, Gaara (let's not even go to Naruto, Sasuke...) could surely also be able to beat the 3 Sannins of that time.
The Sannins evolved with time while Hanzo remained of almost the same level.
Now, he's just too weak to compete against the shinobis who really improved with time.
For me, Kishi's not high on good defeat the bad ones but more on the "newer generations will surpass the other"
He always ride on that part and I think he'll continue on this...
The old kages will surely also get defeated...
I just wanna see Itachi or Nagato in action as they just died in the manga compared to the other Edo Tensei...
There will surely be few ninjas who surpassed them...
We'll see then...
well the problem for me wasnt that hanzo was defeated but how he was defeated. I agree that hanzo was out of training and his way of fighting is outdated. but mifune let it look like child's play.
In some parts it looked fair, in some it looked stupid, hanzo should have used jutsus during the short period of time mifune was caught in the salamander's mouth or simply ignored the attacks and spam jutsus. who cares if somebody attacks your body if it immediately regenerates and you dont feel the pain? a ninja of hanzo's caliber should be at least able to use his immortality.
however, you cant generalize and say that the old generations are all outdated and weak, since sot6p, hashirama, madara and minato still lead all power-ratings with all of them having their prime 20 years ago or longer (60 and like forever). of course we all know that in the end naruto and sasuke will have surpassed them all, but not yet, and just these two.
I'm a bit tired that threads spread out all this week since Mifune beat Hanzo easily. Yeah, even I was disappointed that a seemingly great ninja was presented like an idiot but then I thought of it if indeed Kishi raped him or was it us who misjudged his force...
Well, I came to the conclusion that we overhyped him uselessly. People should accept that the Sannins were indeed too weak at that time. Those who don't, check out my explanation below.
The fact is that the Sannin were indeed too young...
In fact, they haven't lost to Hanzo back then...They seemed to have a good battle and as Oro was seemingly the only one to be able to continue the battle, J-Man was wanting to continue the battle. This means that his Sage Mode was really incomplete at that time and he wanted to use it in extreme conditions and he finally didn't do anything since Tsunade (who surely gave it her all) prevented him.
If Hanzo indeed beat up all Sannins in almost full-power as you most say, then there will have been summonings beaten all around and J-Man will atleast have the 2 frogs on his shoulder...The fact is that fight was pretty too easy for Hanzo at their power levels even if combined but still, he could have lost if he didn't fled away...
Here's what I think the Sannins have learnt over the years and improved...
Jiraiya
- Better Sage Mode (still not perfected one though)
- More summonings
- Rasengan (at Hanzo time, J-Man did not meet Minato yet)
- More jutsus and eventually experience
This makes Jiraiya around 4 time more powerful than at Hanzo time....
Tsunade
- Regeneration Jutsu
- 2 times more powerful strength
- Much better med. techs and eventually experience...
This makes Tsunade around 3 time more powerful than at Hanzo time...
Orochimaru
- Edo-Tensei
- More summonings
- Body Transfer Jutsu
- More snakes jutsus
- Creepy techs and other jutsus
- More experience
This makes Orochimaru 4 times more powerful than at Hanzo time...
If we calculate it mathematically (even if it's not completely reliable...),
Total Actual Sannnin Power = 3
Total Old Sannin Power = 1/4 J-Man + 1/3 Tsunade + 1/4 Oro
= 0.833333333333
Hanzo Power = 0.8333333333333
So Yeah, basically with even 1 Sannin only could beat Hanzo now....since 1 is greater than 0.833333333
It's us who overhyped Hanzo at that time when he was shown to be total bad-azs and winning against seemingly the Sannins, not Kishi's fault...
We cannot blame it on Kishi that he just wanted to make a fool of the "great" Hanzo...We thought too great of Hanzo uselessly
Well, if we think of it more naturally, Pein disposed of Hanzo so easily since he was too weak while J-Man alone put on a valiant fight.
Whoa those are some awesome calculations I love the Tsunade love you gave there also people seem to think she sucks but I beg to differ xD. But I think you forgot that Tsunade learned how to summon slugs after fighting hanzo.
Whoa those are some awesome calculations I love the Tsunade love you gave there also people seem to think she sucks but I beg to differ xD. But I think you forgot that Tsunade learned how to summon slugs after fighting hanzo.
Whoa those are some awesome calculations I love the Tsunade love you gave there also people seem to think she sucks but I beg to differ xD. But I think you forgot that Tsunade learned how to summon slugs after fighting hanzo.
I think she already knew how to summon Katsuyu as Oro seems to know Katsuyu when they met back....Still, she's also not one of the best shinobis but she's def. better than Hanzo now...
it is true but we didnt missiterpetate, we simply thought so because there were hints on manga that stated that hanzo was strong (but some might overexaggerated)
but still i dont think we was as weak as the last manga made him look, there just isnt much time to show all introduced characters so some are bound to leave the spotlight too fast and without justice done too their reputation
yes, i saw that. Strangely enough, i doubt that an Ino with faith in peace could beat a Sasuke who doesnt believe in peace at all. Even a depressive and lethargic Sasuke would beat Ino with one look.
Believes and faith as part of morale influence a fight, but they usually arent everything.
I think that it's also strange that every revived has lost some faith or believe or whatever and every enemy of them has exactly that faith/believe/whatever and just needs that as an explanation why he beat them. Even more disturbing is the fact that edo tensei seems to be leading to being faithless which leads to the loss of the ability to use jutsus. Kabuto seems to have an army of wooden dolls.
By the way, I am not criticizing you here but kishi's story-writing. Naruto makes a troll out of me xd
Lol, you taking a bad example here. I'm not saying that Mifune isn't strong. You're comparing Sasuke with Ino !O.O
Compare Sasuke with Pain, Pain is stronger but if he hasn't got faith in himself and is sad. Sasuke could beat him.
I agree with you on the fact that the revived are like wooden dolls. I personnally think that edo tensei summons aren't as strong as they really were when they were alive.
Lol, you taking a bad example here. I'm not saying that Mifune isn't strong. You're comparing Sasuke with Ino !O.O
Compare Sasuke with Pain, Pain is stronger but if he hasn't got faith in himself and is sad. Sasuke could beat him.
I agree with you on the fact that the revived are like wooden dolls. I personnally think that edo tensei summons aren't as strong as they really were when they were alive.
of course it was an extreme example as i said, that mifune won didnt really bothered me, in my eyes he just won to clearly. what really bothers me is the fact that this is the fourth fight in a row, where the good ones dominated, and in at least 2 of 4 i would have said that the good ones never never never should have won. the way deideira, sasori and the brothers went down was just bad in my eyes.
Well if people were paying attention Mifune faced Hanzo before, he knows his fighting style. Also Mifune lived a long life and is up there in age, Hanzo is dead and his growth is stopped. Mifune is also the leader of the Samurai a title that is up there with kage. Nothing is taken away from Hanzo. He single handily stopped the ambush squad.
As for the sennin they were young around 20 years old. They were no were around their powers that they have now. Jiraiya obviously didn't have sage mode cause Ma & Pa weren't on his shoulders nor did he have the rasengan. Tsunade didn't have her Creation Rebirth jutsu. Orouchimaru probably didn't have a lot of the jutsu he uses now. I don't even think they were even around Kakashi level (modern Kakashi) but together their strengths were that of a S-class shinobi. Hanzo saw that they had serious potential and let them live.
Hanzo's power is probably around the sennin's current level.
of course it was an extreme example as i said, that mifune won didnt really bothered me, in my eyes he just won to clearly. what really bothers me is the fact that this is the fourth fight in a row, where the good ones dominated, and in at least 2 of 4 i would have said that the good ones never never never should have won. the way deideira, sasori and the brothers went down was just bad in my eyes.
Well if people were paying attention Mifune faced Hanzo before, he knows his fighting style. Also Mifune lived a long life and is up there in age, Hanzo is dead and his growth is stopped. Mifune is also the leader of the Samurai a title that is up there with kage. Nothing is taken away from Hanzo. He single handily stopped the ambush squad.
As for the sennin they were young around 20 years old. They were no were around their powers that they have now. Jiraiya obviously didn't have sage mode cause Ma & Pa weren't on his shoulders nor did he have the rasengan. Tsunade didn't have her Creation Rebirth jutsu. Orouchimaru probably didn't have a lot of the jutsu he uses now. I don't even think they were even around Kakashi level (modern Kakashi) but together their strengths were that of a S-class shinobi. Hanzo saw that they had serious potential and let them live.
Hanzo's power is probably around the sennin's current level.
guys...... hanzo sure knows some killer jutsus but he just dont have enough time to do it..... so if u cant do it ... its the same as u dont know it..........so to me......mifune defeating hanzo isnt a blunder....
what i didnt like of that "arc" have been the 5 weapons (or the 4 we have seen), the whole words-play was just plain awful, but how the second brother went done was hilarious. i mean who cant you kill with that combo except people who are as fast as lightning? and the three of them truly arent special in any way, it's just the fact that kishi developed an lame item that perfectly works with their abilities.
I'm a bit tired that threads spread out all this week since Mifune beat Hanzo easily. Yeah, even I was disappointed that a seemingly great ninja was presented like an idiot but then I thought of it if indeed Kishi raped him or was it us who misjudged his force...
Well, I came to the conclusion that we overhyped him uselessly. People should accept that the Sannins were indeed too weak at that time. Those who don't, check out my explanation below.
The fact is that the Sannin were indeed too young...
In fact, they haven't lost to Hanzo back then...They seemed to have a good battle and as Oro was seemingly the only one to be able to continue the battle, J-Man was wanting to continue the battle. This means that his Sage Mode was really incomplete at that time and he wanted to use it in extreme conditions and he finally didn't do anything since Tsunade (who surely gave it her all) prevented him.
If Hanzo indeed beat up all Sannins in almost full-power as you most say, then there will have been summonings beaten all around and J-Man will atleast have the 2 frogs on his shoulder...The fact is that fight was pretty too easy for Hanzo at their power levels even if combined but still, he could have lost if he didn't fled away...
Here's what I think the Sannins have learnt over the years and improved...
Jiraiya
- Better Sage Mode (still not perfected one though)
- More summonings
- Rasengan (at Hanzo time, J-Man did not meet Minato yet)
- More jutsus and eventually experience
This makes Jiraiya around 4 time more powerful than at Hanzo time....
Tsunade
- Regeneration Jutsu
- 2 times more powerful strength
- Much better med. techs and eventually experience...
This makes Tsunade around 3 time more powerful than at Hanzo time...
Orochimaru
- Edo-Tensei
- More summonings
- Body Transfer Jutsu
- More snakes jutsus
- Creepy techs and other jutsus
- More experience
This makes Orochimaru 4 times more powerful than at Hanzo time...
If we calculate it mathematically (even if it's not completely reliable...),
Total Actual Sannnin Power = 3
Total Old Sannin Power = 1/4 J-Man + 1/3 Tsunade + 1/4 Oro
= 0.833333333333
Hanzo Power = 0.8333333333333
So Yeah, basically with even 1 Sannin only could beat Hanzo now....since 1 is greater than 0.833333333
It's us who overhyped Hanzo at that time when he was shown to be total bad-azs and winning against seemingly the Sannins, not Kishi's fault...
We cannot blame it on Kishi that he just wanted to make a fool of the "great" Hanzo...We thought too great of Hanzo uselessly
Well, if we think of it more naturally, Pein disposed of Hanzo so easily since he was too weak while J-Man alone put on a valiant fight.
You're absolutely right. When Hanzo had fought the three sannin, they we're younger and hadn't reached their prime. They have indeed improved in several aspects of combat. If you asked me, Jiraiya would probably destroy Hanzo alone if he were alive!
I'm a bit tired that threads spread out all this week since Mifune beat Hanzo easily. Yeah, even I was disappointed that a seemingly great ninja was presented like an idiot but then I thought of it if indeed Kishi raped him or was it us who misjudged his force...
Well, I came to the conclusion that we overhyped him uselessly. People should accept that the Sannins were indeed too weak at that time. Those who don't, check out my explanation below.
The fact is that the Sannin were indeed too young...
In fact, they haven't lost to Hanzo back then...They seemed to have a good battle and as Oro was seemingly the only one to be able to continue the battle, J-Man was wanting to continue the battle. This means that his Sage Mode was really incomplete at that time and he wanted to use it in extreme conditions and he finally didn't do anything since Tsunade (who surely gave it her all) prevented him.
If Hanzo indeed beat up all Sannins in almost full-power as you most say, then there will have been summonings beaten all around and J-Man will atleast have the 2 frogs on his shoulder...The fact is that fight was pretty too easy for Hanzo at their power levels even if combined but still, he could have lost if he didn't fled away...
Here's what I think the Sannins have learnt over the years and improved...
Jiraiya
- Better Sage Mode (still not perfected one though)
- More summonings
- Rasengan (at Hanzo time, J-Man did not meet Minato yet)
- More jutsus and eventually experience
This makes Jiraiya around 4 time more powerful than at Hanzo time....
Tsunade
- Regeneration Jutsu
- 2 times more powerful strength
- Much better med. techs and eventually experience...
This makes Tsunade around 3 time more powerful than at Hanzo time...
Orochimaru
- Edo-Tensei
- More summonings
- Body Transfer Jutsu
- More snakes jutsus
- Creepy techs and other jutsus
- More experience
This makes Orochimaru 4 times more powerful than at Hanzo time...
If we calculate it mathematically (even if it's not completely reliable...),
Total Actual Sannnin Power = 3
Total Old Sannin Power = 1/4 J-Man + 1/3 Tsunade + 1/4 Oro
= 0.833333333333
Hanzo Power = 0.8333333333333
So Yeah, basically with even 1 Sannin only could beat Hanzo now....since 1 is greater than 0.833333333
It's us who overhyped Hanzo at that time when he was shown to be total bad-azs and winning against seemingly the Sannins, not Kishi's fault...
We cannot blame it on Kishi that he just wanted to make a fool of the "great" Hanzo...We thought too great of Hanzo uselessly
Well, if we think of it more naturally, Pein disposed of Hanzo so easily since he was too weak while J-Man alone put on a valiant fight.
I COMPLETELY APPREEACITE THAT THE SANNIN WEREN"T AS POwERFUL AS WE SAW THEM IN PART 1 and 2. But something isn't quite right and here's my take.
Not sure what the hell is going on with hanzo I'm hoping he regroups fast, really fast. I know the sannin weren't as powerful during their fight against hanzo but surely Hanzo will show us why Jiraiya was surprised pain beat hanzo by himself considering jiraiya did very well against pain himself.
Maybe partly the reason Hanzo didn't compete well against pain is the same reason hes doing crap now. It would seem Hanzo has been mentally scared from the war with his country(rain) with the 5 ninija villages. His dream of making the ninja world one looks like it hit him hard when he found out he wasn't strong enough to do it alone to join forces with danzo.
This would be very irrating if hanzo doesn't show us more before he gets sealed of something because this will be the last chance plot wise for kishi to show how strong hanzo was and how he fought. Hanzo is one of the few chacarters that were in the third hokages era it would be a shame if kishi doesn't do them justice.
Also what hanzo's jutsu used so far isn't the only thing that is disapoointing me.
Being a legendary shinobi is not just about how much chakra/techniques you have its also your mental level headedness during battle. Look at shinobi like madara/minato/nagato/jiraiya/orcoihmaru/third hokage when they're in action you just know they are gonna in charge it's all about the battle presence and hanzo has disappointed me in that regard so far. I was expecting the total opppoiste from what hanzo has shown already, but that just me.
Hanzo hasn't been acting like a shinobi in this fight not very level headed at all, but like I said maybe kishi is doing this on purpose to convey hanzo doesn't care anymore about pride etc.. he was resurected by force after all.
Either case this is THE FRIST AND ONLY TIME WE ARE EVER GONNA SEE HIM IN ACTION. I can't stress that enought.
really disapointed so far, hanzo deserves better far better.
The Sannin were indeed young and likely at their best would each be able to kill Hanzo (definitely Orochimaru and Jiraiya...probably Tsnaude). We definitely all did our fair share of over hyping.
I don't now what to say else 
