I agree with the fact that he wasn't going all out against Gladius but that doesn't mean that he's stronger than him. He was totally on defence which means that Gladius is strong enough to get easily beaten by Cavendish. Even Gladius didn't go all out yet he was holding his own against both Cavendish as well as Bartho. Everything that happened during their battle just proves that they are on the same table. I said Cavendish was a little stronger because he has better portrayal than Gladius.
[Discussion] Hakuba vs Zoro
- Thread starter Uzumaki Macho
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I agree with the fact that he wasn't going all out against Gladius but that doesn't mean that he's stronger than him. He was totally on defence which means that Gladius is strong enough to get easily beaten by Cavendish. Even Gladius didn't go all out yet he was holding his own against both Cavendish as well as Bartho. Everything that happened during their battle just proves that they are on the same table. I said Cavendish was a little stronger because he has better portrayal than Gladius.
She was the only one who could see (It has not been shown it was coo) that attack coming as Sabo said. Of course one on one she cannot keep dodging, but that just proves Zoro should be able to beat Hakuba low diff.
chopstickchakra
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I thought about that, but Cavendish is on the couch with Luffy and them, while Ideo is behind them with Sai and Abdul&Jeet(or whatever their name was) I figured that would be his rebuttal so I left it out.
He might be but I would think Machvise or Senor Pink are stronger. They're definitely more durable based on who they fought, Franky is stronger than Cavendish or Bart and so is that Elbaf giant(most likely I mean, 10000 ton hit, that's impressive)
I would say top 3- Machvise, Pink, Gladius probably in that order
2nd 3- Lao G, Dellinger, Baby 5
then- Monet and Jora
Lastly- Viola, Buffalo, Sugar
That's how I would rank them from.
Punk Hazard
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It's weird, I actually see Gladius beating Machvise, but Machvise beating Senor Pink, and Machvise beating Gladius. Like Rock Paper Scissors
Also, Viola managed to damage Sanji's body, I don't think she's that weak.
chopstickchakra
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Wasn't that because of Sanji's no hitting women code(Like Kenichi he got beat up and hurt by girls but they were still weaker than other opponents) Plus I just feel like Monet and Jora have better fighting skills and their DF's are more suited towards fighting. I put the last three together because their DF skill isn't really fighting oriented.
Also you said Machvise beats Gladius I think you mean Pink? See I thought Pink would beat Gladius because of swimming in the ground, but Punk Rock Fest gets rid of the ground. So I'd say RPS= Gladius>Pink Pink>Machvise Machvise>Gladius. Like I said Machvise imo showed the most durability leading me to believe he could withstand Gladius' explosions, whereas Pink would need to rely on hiding through the ground which I've established wouldn't work due to Punk Rock Fest. Pink could beat Vise who needs to be in the air for his attacks by trapping him in the ground and preventing him attacking, with no momentum his weighted attacks are not as much of a threat.
Uzumaki Macho
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How does Machvise beat Gladius? Gladius can easily outspeed Machvise's attacks and then just use Catapult Punk and Punk Hair while Machvise is on the ground.
Uzumaki Macho
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Similar question could be asked for current Sai. At the current time, Sai can be anywhere, so i will simply accept his real level is as unknown as current Sai's, but if i were to chose imperatively in debate, i'll put him on the "slightly above Gladius range"
chopstickchakra
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I'm pretty sure Vise's weight would decrease the impact from Gladius' attacks enough to handle them. Plus he took a hit that not only pushed back, it literally flew away a 10,000 ton attack but not before breaking his bones in his arm and leg which is a feat to do to a giant, I don't see Gladius breaking his bones
Uzumaki Macho
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Punk Hair would poison Machvise so that doesn't matter, and I'm pretty sure Machvise loses his weight once he hits the ground.
chopstickchakra
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You can't really say Punk Hair would poison them so he wins, first it paralyzes them not poisons them and the weight to poison ratio may not stop Vise instantly, plus willpower comes into play, he could paralyze Luffy but Luffy's willpower will let him move through the toxin. Granted Vise isn't as strong as Luffy but still Punk Hair isn't a guaranteed win is all I'm saying.
Uzumaki Macho
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Gladius is far too fast for Machvise to handle, Machvise is only good against slowpokes are large targets. He won't be able to crush Gladius, and even if by some miracle Machvise manages to get past Gladius's speed, unless it's 10,000 Vise of Hell, Gladius should be able to survive multiple attacks since he tanked a Jet Stamp while Hajrudin got knocked out by a Jet Pistol, and he withstood several attacks from Machvise. Gladius can just set up Punk Rock Fest, dodge all of Machvise's attacks, and its GG for Machvise once Punk Rock Fest is ready.
chopstickchakra
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How so? Punk Rock Fest didn't kill everyone in the area, plus are you forgetting how high Vise can jump? He knows Gladius and his powers when he feels/notices the ground about to rupture why wouldn't he jump? We don't know anything about their speeds and if you're basing it on size I counter with Lucky Roo a super fast character and a plump one at that.
Vise survived an impact that's above Punk Rock Fest anyway as I already mentioned, that punch from that Elbaf Giant is stronger than Punk Rock Fest, it was able to hold the 10,000 ton attack then send it flying who knows how many hundreds of feet into the air. If he can survive that he can survive Punk Rock Fest.
All the Stamp attack shows is that Gladius has more durability than Hajrudin but that was never a topic of discussion, comparing Gladius and Hajrudin's durability is irrelevant to discussing Vise/Gladius. Pretty sure Jet Stamp can't reverse 10,000 tons(unless Oda says it can) the way that punch did so Hajrudin's attack on Vise was stronger than that jet stamp Luffy did on Gladius(don't get that twisted and assume I'm saying Hajrudin can beat Luffy because he obviously can't as we've seen but his punches can pack a bigger punch than Luffy's hell even King Elizabello has a stronger punch than Luffy that doesn't mean they are durable enough to beat him)
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Ohhh I meant to say Senor Pink beats Gladius, my bad.
Sure, Gladius may not KILL Machvise. But you're forgetting that neither did that punch, it incapacitated him and Hajrudin won because he KOd Machvise. Gladius may not kill Machvise, but he can KO him.
Machvise tries to jump on Gladius, who moves out of the way and Machvise hits the ground. Hard. While he can't move because his stomach hurts, as shown multiple times in the manga, Gladius blows up the ground underneath him, which will either KO him the same way the punch did, or simply create a hole that he falls in and gets trapped in.
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Uzumaki Macho
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How does Pink beat Gladius?
Gladius is faster than Machvise because he had no problem catching Kabu, who could knock all of the Executives out of the way before a tear could land on them, and Gladius then proceeded to easily catch Toy Soldier. Riker already explained why Gladius can easily beat Machvise.
Uzumaki Macho
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But Sai has shown feats to prove that he is above Gladius, Cavendish hasn't.
chopstickchakra
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I still call shenanigans on him not dying that day. Oda established Bird Cage and Doffy's strings in general are razor sharp, yet Vise goes flying into it at super speeds and comes back down in one piece. That's suspect.
Fair enough point on Kill vs K.O I had thought about that while I was writing but I was too committed to a death battle scenario to revise my whole stance.
Gladius might beat Vise in a fight idk, we really don't have enough info to determine that based off one or two fights against random mid-tier to bottom of the top-tier fighters.
I like Gladius more I just think if you were to make a list of everyone Gladius and Vise could fight, everyone on Gladius' list would also be on Vise's list but not everyone on Vise's list would be on Gladius'. Prime example Bartolomeo, until I see more from him I can't/won't say his barrier is equivalent to a punch from an Elbaf Giant, so I don't think Bafrt's Barriers would stop him from being smashed by 10,000 ton Vise(or whatever the name of the move really was) and it's that reasoning why I say Vise is stronger than Gladius. remember ABC logic doesn't apply in manga, Gladius may beat Vise but I think Vise is the stronger of the two.
I will acknowledge Gladius has the more impressive move set, seeing as Vise really only has one trick that we know of. I wonder what other ways Vise can use his fruit though, he makes his body heavier in the air but can he increase the mass of his fist on the ground during a punch? That would add a new dynamic to the battle.